Scoundrel Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Well, I'm kind of hoping we get even more film against great D's - I get your point that he can only do what he can do vs. the teams he faces - but it's just way more certain if he can do it over & over again under NFL-level pressure. It's why if he waits for a year, he probably removes all doubt - and next year's class doesn't have the trench elite class this one does. He'd be a surefire top 5 pick, the only Q is if he goes before or after Tua. But either way, he's going top 5 if he plays this well again, and vs. BCS teams to boot. He just may not get that chance this year. I couldn't argue your take that he should be the #1 guy from this class - but man, people love them some Herbert. I definitely was one of them entering 2018..but man, he's been so meh since September. And he shouldn't be. He's clearly safer than the rest of them, though. The issue of course, is how GM Gettleman feels. He's not afraid to take a physical talent #1 on faith he'll get the rest (Cam 2011). But he's also been locked in on Herbert for a while, by the beat reporters (apparently some believe that was part of his thinking for 2018 going Barkley 1.2 - if Eli didn't recover, they'll hit 2019 hard, and were OK with Herbert there. Of course, a lot has changed). We'll see. Getting Barkley and then Haskins would be a great get for NYG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Fan Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Why not trade 2019 1st for 2020 1 st with Arizona ? Cardinals have a long way to be good in 2019. Have a new QB in Rosen so not interested in drafting another top prospect and want more weapons for next season. We can save $$ in 1st round 2019 for salary cap to resign Barrett for example ? With Zona 1st and great chance to be top 10 we have a good shot to top prospect QB draft class in 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 Just now, French Fan said: Why not trade 2019 1st for 2020 1 st with Arizona ? Cardinals have a long way to be good in 2019. Have a new QB in Rosen so not interested in drafting another top prospect and want more weapons for next season. We can save $$ in 1st round 2019 for salary cap to resign Barrett for example ? I'm intrigued doesn't even necessarily need to be them either. Maybe we can dance with the devil to get oaklands 2020 first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 2 hours ago, French Fan said: Why not trade 2019 1st for 2020 1 st with Arizona ? Cardinals have a long way to be good in 2019. Have a new QB in Rosen so not interested in drafting another top prospect and want more weapons for next season. We can save $$ in 1st round 2019 for salary cap to resign Barrett for example ? With Zona 1st and great chance to be top 10 we have a good shot to top prospect QB draft class in 2020 Every draft teams that don't have particular needs always want to trade down. The problem is only teams with very specific needs and wanting 1 guy want to trade up. Last year, the only reason teams moved up was to get 1 specific guy - QB mostly (NO with Davenport). ARI will get their elite defender early Rd 1 or their foundation OL, and then likely will just keep hitting BPA. I say that because of Keim's trade history - he's only moved back in Day 1-2 except to get a QB (and the draft capital spent was nowhere near a future 1st). With a QB in the fold, seems like a very long shot. If you look at trade history, other than BUF's VERY misguided trade up for Sammy Watkins, it's either a trade up to get a QB, or later in Rd1 to get a specific guy and benefit from the 5th year option (and in Watkins case, moving from 9 to 4 costs another 1st to do - moving to a mid-teens pick only costs a future 1st if there's no present day capital used, and from teams that think they're good - I think we agree that ARI won't be one of those teams). It's hard to see how our draft spot in the mid-teens will get us a 2020 draft pick from a top 10 2020 team that knows they are bad. Those teams aren't likely to see an elite talent sitting there at mid-teens who's worth spending a top 10 2020 pick for. If they are that bad, those teams hunker down. 2 hours ago, thebestever6 said: I'm intrigued doesn't even necessarily need to be them either. Maybe we can dance with the devil to get oaklands 2020 first. I do think OAK moving up for a mid-teens pick is possible if Gruden parts ways with Carr (he's not going 1.1 or 1.2 on QB, not with 3 1sts), but not for 2020's pick. Gruden might be willing to trade both 2019 later 1st round picks (if DAL makes the playoffs, their next pick is in the early 20's, CHI will be mid-late 20's) to move up and get his guy, but even that might not be necessary, depending on how far back DAL ends up from us (or another team in teens). They have the ammunition to move up with us - but don't need to pay a potential top 5 or top 10 pick to do it. Let's face it, he's a total wild card. I think he'll move on from Carr given how much shade he's thrown Carr's way, but who knows with Chucky. The bigger issue is that OAK doesn't need to trade a future 1st to move up in Rd 1 this year. Teams only trade future 1sts when they don't have enough ammo to get the job done. The fundamental problem with trading back is the market has to be there - and it's almost always involving franchise QB's, or an elite defender at a premium position (again, Watkins is the one notable exception, and BUF was unanimously slammed from the start as an outlier for that practice, and the results certainly have discouraged teams from doing that again - GM-killer move along with EJ Manuel Rd1). Plus this scenario requires teams who don't have the present day ammo to get the job done. There isn't just 1 missing piece to the equation this year, there are multiple. There have been trades where teams give up a future 1st for sure - and end up doing terribly, so that pick ends up a top 10 pick. But it's rarely a terrible team that knows they are terrible giving up a future 1st round pick for a non-QB (BUF & Watkins is probably the one exception). The more plausible trade is a trade with a team that thinks they are just 1 player away - and then gets hit hard with injuries - but it will certainly seem like a gamble at the time, unless we move way back in Rd 1 to do that deal (Davenport was 29 to 14, as an example, we'd probably have to do mid-teens to that, and give a 2020 Day 2 pick - maybe Rd3, to make the draft values work, barring a brain-dead GM - which is hard to find in the late-20's). You'd need both a target that a decent-OK team sees as must-have valuable - and that same team thinking they're only 1 player away, and with zero present day capital to make a move work. Marcus Davenport & NO is the more common scenario (where the team ends up being a contender). Deshaun Watson is the dream people have - but HOU was a team clearly in .500 land hoping to become playoff contenders, who then went in the tank when Watt & Watson both went down for the season (and again, that was for QB). 2019's talent is all trenches - and it goes pretty deep, but it's hard to see a mid-late teens pick as attractive enough for a team to trade for with a future 1st - unless it's a very good team, with no other capital that can get it done...add it up, it's a very unlikely far-fetched scenario. Now, nothing's impossible with GM's like Mike Tannenbaum around (but he picks ahead of us, so....). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 On 11/28/2018 at 5:29 AM, Broncofan said: Every draft teams that don't have particular needs always want to trade down. The problem is only teams with very specific needs and wanting 1 guy want to trade up. Last year, the only reason teams moved up was to get 1 specific guy - QB mostly (NO with Davenport). ARI will get their elite defender early Rd 1 or their foundation OL, and then likely will just keep hitting BPA. I say that because of Keim's trade history - he's only moved back in Day 1-2 except to get a QB (and the draft capital spent was nowhere near a future 1st). With a QB in the fold, seems like a very long shot. If you look at trade history, other than BUF's VERY misguided trade up for Sammy Watkins, it's either a trade up to get a QB, or later in Rd1 to get a specific guy and benefit from the 5th year option (and in Watkins case, moving from 9 to 4 costs another 1st to do - moving to a mid-teens pick only costs a future 1st if there's no present day capital used, and from teams that think they're good - I think we agree that ARI won't be one of those teams). It's hard to see how our draft spot in the mid-teens will get us a 2020 draft pick from a top 10 2020 team that knows they are bad. Those teams aren't likely to see an elite talent sitting there at mid-teens who's worth spending a top 10 2020 pick for. If they are that bad, those teams hunker down. I do think OAK moving up for a mid-teens pick is possible if Gruden parts ways with Carr (he's not going 1.1 or 1.2 on QB, not with 3 1sts), but not for 2020's pick. Gruden might be willing to trade both 2019 later 1st round picks (if DAL makes the playoffs, their next pick is in the early 20's, CHI will be mid-late 20's) to move up and get his guy, but even that might not be necessary, depending on how far back DAL ends up from us (or another team in teens). They have the ammunition to move up with us - but don't need to pay a potential top 5 or top 10 pick to do it. Let's face it, he's a total wild card. I think he'll move on from Carr given how much shade he's thrown Carr's way, but who knows with Chucky. The bigger issue is that OAK doesn't need to trade a future 1st to move up in Rd 1 this year. Teams only trade future 1sts when they don't have enough ammo to get the job done. The fundamental problem with trading back is the market has to be there - and it's almost always involving franchise QB's, or an elite defender at a premium position (again, Watkins is the one notable exception, and BUF was unanimously slammed from the start as an outlier for that practice, and the results certainly have discouraged teams from doing that again - GM-killer move along with EJ Manuel Rd1). Plus this scenario requires teams who don't have the present day ammo to get the job done. There isn't just 1 missing piece to the equation this year, there are multiple. There have been trades where teams give up a future 1st for sure - and end up doing terribly, so that pick ends up a top 10 pick. But it's rarely a terrible team that knows they are terrible giving up a future 1st round pick for a non-QB (BUF & Watkins is probably the one exception). The more plausible trade is a trade with a team that thinks they are just 1 player away - and then gets hit hard with injuries - but it will certainly seem like a gamble at the time, unless we move way back in Rd 1 to do that deal (Davenport was 29 to 14, as an example, we'd probably have to do mid-teens to that, and give a 2020 Day 2 pick - maybe Rd3, to make the draft values work, barring a brain-dead GM - which is hard to find in the late-20's). You'd need both a target that a decent-OK team sees as must-have valuable - and that same team thinking they're only 1 player away, and with zero present day capital to make a move work. Marcus Davenport & NO is the more common scenario (where the team ends up being a contender). Deshaun Watson is the dream people have - but HOU was a team clearly in .500 land hoping to become playoff contenders, who then went in the tank when Watt & Watson both went down for the season (and again, that was for QB). 2019's talent is all trenches - and it goes pretty deep, but it's hard to see a mid-late teens pick as attractive enough for a team to trade for with a future 1st - unless it's a very good team, with no other capital that can get it done...add it up, it's a very unlikely far-fetched scenario. Now, nothing's impossible with GM's like Mike Tannenbaum around (but he picks ahead of us, so....). Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Certainly a worthwhile prospect https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2808266-tim-tebow-on-watching-nfl-games-i-can-be-doing-this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Not gonna need to draft one any time soon. THE PETER MAN can save us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 We should pick Haskins if he is there. Don’t get cute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 We need another homerun draft hopefully a qb is in that part and he's a homerun. But let's look at a team which reminds me alot of us coming off a superbowl win except they have a franchise qb. That's the Eagles other then getting Wentz in the draft they really haven't drafted well it's alarming. They have holes all over the roster after winning the superbowl last year. Yes they lost their oc and qb coach but the drop off is alarming. We can beat the qb drum too death but I think as long as we continue to draft well we'll be in great shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 I don't think the Broncos will get a chance to draft Haskins now. The Jags need a QB, the Giants will go QBOTF...the Dolphins make look for a new QB...those teams maybe picking in front of the Broncos now. Unless, the Broncos make a move to move trade up...the Broncos may need to think elsewhere for a QBOTF...eff you Chad Kelly! Another option...trade for Matt Stafford...get him out of Detroit and I think he'd thrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 1 hour ago, jsthomp2007 said: I don't think the Broncos will get a chance to draft Haskins now. The Jags need a QB, the Giants will go QBOTF...the Dolphins make look for a new QB...those teams maybe picking in front of the Broncos now. Unless, the Broncos make a move to move trade up...the Broncos may need to think elsewhere for a QBOTF...eff you Chad Kelly! Another option...trade for Matt Stafford...get him out of Detroit and I think he'd thrive. They might need to get creative look under every nook and cranny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: They might need to get creative look under every nook and cranny Like, what would Matt Stafford be if he didn't play for the Lions? I mean, I applaud him for sticking it out there, but...man...they are never even close. Put, Stafford in an organization that demands winning...could turn his career around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said: Like, what would Matt Stafford be if he didn't play for the Lions? I mean, I applaud him for sticking it out there, but...man...they are never even close. Put, Stafford in an organization that demands winning...could turn his career around. Lions need a reason to move on . Hes there only franchise player right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: Lions need a reason to move on . Hes there only franchise player right now. What I am saying is that you could put Brady, Montana, Elway, Manning on the Lions they'd still lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted December 2, 2018 Share Posted December 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said: What I am saying is that you could put Brady, Montana, Elway, Manning on the Lions they'd still lose I agree, but their brand new head coach wants to keep a franchise qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.