2019 NFL QB Draft Prospects

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

There's no way thats a smoke screen. It benefits us how as a smoke screen? All that does is have qb needy teams that want lock trade to leap us not trade with us.

Nothing there I'm even going to think about. Plenty of time after the draft and FA.

[BroncosFan2010]

Man, I just really dislike Lock's footwork under pressure. And that generally doesnt change with time and coaching. He is articulate, has a near elite arm and is athletic. He adapted well to a new system as a Senior. But there are just too many red flags for me. Two things generally are not improved upon with QB's; how they react to pressure and accuracy. There is no way Lock has R1 talent in either of those categories.

[Scoundrel]

2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Man, I just really dislike Lock's footwork under pressure. And that generally doesnt change with time and coaching. He is articulate, has a near elite arm and is athletic. He adapted well to a new system as a Senior. But there are just too many red flags for me. Two things generally are not improved upon with QB's; how they react to pressure and accuracy. There is no way Lock has R1 talent in either of those categories.

Preach

[The Helicopter]

8 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Man, I just really dislike Lock's footwork under pressure. And that generally doesnt change with time and coaching. He is articulate, has a near elite arm and is athletic. He adapted well to a new system as a Senior. But there are just too many red flags for me. Two things generally are not improved upon with QB's; how they react to pressure and accuracy. There is no way Lock has R1 talent in either of those categories.

It's not that I disagree, or even know how to evaluate talent...but what were Brady's shortcomings? I mean, he was a late rounder for good reason, no? He still has bad traits too, no? What I'm saying is, it's a crap shoot and what choices do we have? At some point you gotta put 11 men on the field and let them battle it out. Lock doesn't have to be the GOAT, he just has to win.

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, The Helicopter said:

It's not that I disagree, or even know how to evaluate talent...but what were Brady's shortcomings? I mean, he was a late rounder for good reason, no? He still has bad traits too, no? What I'm saying is, it's a crap shoot and what choices do we have? At some point you gotta put 11 men on the field and let them battle it out. Lock doesn't have to be the GOAT, he just has to win.

Brady reported in at 6’5 195 lbs.   He ran a 5.28 40 and 24” vert.  His arm strength was very average.   He had great pocket presence and short game accuracy.  And was fearless facing pressure.   But teams didn’t think he’d put the bulk or gain the arm strength.  It’s part of why his so called TB12 system gets so much run (Edelman’s PED hit might suggest other factors too as he was a TB12 guy too). 

Nice summary here - https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/10/nfl-patriots-tom-brady-draft-college-michigan-scouting-report/amp

The thing is that Lock’s tools aren’t the question.  It’s the translation to skllls and those flags are pretty significant as they are the hardest to change.  

Now at least we have new coaches who might be able to fix those problems - Kubiak & co. failed miserably at QB development (going to MIN is actually a great fit for him since they don’t need to develop a young guy), the new guys might not be any better but at least there’s hope.  

Having said all the above there is no doubt we don’t progress as an O unless we find a QB.  It’s just that the guys available at 1.10 may not be that much better than waiting until Rd 2-3.    Normally that’s not the case at all - but this is a different year than most.  

[DiehardBronxFan]

I’m pretty sure if it were up to this crowd, the only QB we would have ever drafted was Luck.  Lol

Every year, every QB gets picked apart.  Every flaw gets blown out of proportion.  

For everybody that doesn’t want one of the QB’s this year, what’s your plan?  FA pool sucks.  Taking a QB in the 2nd half of the first round or after is, statistically, pretty much equivalent to throwing the pick in the trash can. With any luck, next year we’re picking in the teens or  lower.  So - what’s the plan?

[Royal_VT]

11 hours ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

I’m pretty sure if it were up to this crowd, the only QB we would have ever drafted was Luck.  Lol

Every year, every QB gets picked apart.  Every flaw gets blown out of proportion.  

For everybody that doesn’t want one of the QB’s this year, what’s your plan?  FA pool sucks.  Taking a QB in the 2nd half of the first round or after is, statistically, pretty much equivalent to throwing the pick in the trash can. With any luck, next year we’re picking in the teens or  lower.  So - what’s the plan?

We don't like to talk about alternative plans.

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

For everybody that doesn’t want one of the QB’s this year, what’s your plan?  FA pool sucks.  Taking a QB in the 2nd half of the first round or after is, statistically, pretty much equivalent to throwing the pick in the trash can. With any luck, next year we’re picking in the teens or  lower.  So - what’s the plan?

I am not against drafting a QB, I just dont think Lock is the right one. Daniel Jones is my guy, thats unlikely to change. He is better in the pocket, better under pressure, better accuracy, quicker with decision making, more seasoned making line calls, more seasoned in a pro-style offense and comes from a coaching tree that puts out great QB's. His arm strength isnt great, but it is adequate. I hate bringing up all-time-greats but Brady had meh arm strength and velocity coming out and mechanical changes improved him in both aspects. I actually think a QB is more likely to gain arm strength through improved technique than they are to improve footwork under pressure, a huge issue with Lock. We are not talking about rebuilding someone's throwing muscles here, simply changing how the ball comes out a bit can make a duck a spiral. And if you get Jones a few improvements in this area, with the aformentioned traits already there he moves near the tier of a top 10 pick type QB.

Its all a gamble, and I would gamble on Daniel improving his arm over Lock improving his under-pressure footwork and accuracy. The former trait is more likely to be adjusted than the ladder, IMO.

[big_palooka]

If rumors are true, Elway has it right. Drew Lock is the right QB. Film junkie, intelligent and has the arm and athletic ability. Needs some refinement with his game, but has things you can't teach. Don't think you can go wrong with him.

[Royal_VT]

57 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

If rumors are true, Elway has it right. Drew Lock is the right QB. Film junkie, intelligent and has the arm and athletic ability. Needs some refinement with his game, but has things you can't teach. Don't think you can go wrong with him.

Is this some sort of reverse psychology bit? Because I was starting to come around on Lock now I don't know what to think.

[broncosfan07]

I wouldn't mind Lock, he improved every season but when I look at our defense I see no ILB capable of playing 3 downs and CB depth is horrendous.

[DiehardBronxFan]

2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I am not against drafting a QB, I just dont think Lock is the right one. Daniel Jones is my guy, thats unlikely to change. He is better in the pocket, better under pressure, better accuracy, quicker with decision making, more seasoned making line calls, more seasoned in a pro-style offense and comes from a coaching tree that puts out great QB's. His arm strength isnt great, but it is adequate. I hate bringing up all-time-greats but Brady had meh arm strength and velocity coming out and mechanical changes improved him in both aspects. I actually think a QB is more likely to gain arm strength through improved technique than they are to improve footwork under pressure, a huge issue with Lock. We are not talking about rebuilding someone's throwing muscles here, simply changing how the ball comes out a bit can make a duck a spiral. And if you get Jones a few improvements in this area, with the aformentioned traits already there he moves near the tier of a top 10 pick type QB.

Its all a gamble, and I would gamble on Daniel improving his arm over Lock improving his under-pressure footwork and accuracy. The former trait is more likely to be adjusted than the ladder, IMO.

I'm no talent scout, and I've only seen snippets of both.  I saw enough last year to know (and yes, I said it - right there with Counselor) that Baker was the real deal, that Darnold was going to be very good, and that I wanted no part of Rosen (no clear passion for the game, small frame) or Allen (Big Arm, only Arm).  Its hard for me to understand somebody saying "Hey - Jones has had the best coaching available for 4 years.  And we'll be able to fix his throwing mechanics with more/better coaching".  I like Jones.  Wouldn't mind Jones.  But - pretty clear to me that he is much closer to his ceiling than Lock.  I just don't know how much more you'll get out of Jones, and that means, at best, a middling QB.  

Lock has Flaws, but to me, they are fixable.  Footwork IS very trainable.  Read and recognition can be developed over time (when they didn't really have to do it in college), if the basics between the ears is there.  More Risk with Lock?  Probably.  But he's not Lynch.  He's not even Allen.  He has all the traits to be a really good QB.  I just don't see us haviing that many chances at that, so you have to take it.  Now, agree with folks that are concerned about trading the farm for him.  That's another question.  But at 10?  Without hesitation.

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, DiehardBronxFan said:

I'm no talent scout, and I've only seen snippets of both.  I saw enough last year to know (and yes, I said it - right there with Counselor) that Baker was the real deal, that Darnold was going to be very good, and that I wanted no part of Rosen (no clear passion for the game, small frame) or Allen (Big Arm, only Arm).  Its hard for me to understand somebody saying "Hey - Jones has had the best coaching available for 4 years.  And we'll be able to fix his throwing mechanics with more/better coaching".  I like Jones.  Wouldn't mind Jones.  But - pretty clear to me that he is much closer to his ceiling than Lock.  I just don't know how much more you'll get out of Jones, and that means, at best, a middling QB.  

Lock has Flaws, but to me, they are fixable.  Footwork IS very trainable.  Read and recognition can be developed over time (when they didn't really have to do it in college), if the basics between the ears is there.  More Risk with Lock?  Probably.  But he's not Lynch.  He's not even Allen.  He has all the traits to be a really good QB.  I just don't see us haviing that many chances at that, so you have to take it.  Now, agree with folks that are concerned about trading the farm for him.  That's another question.  But at 10?  Without hesitation.

This is where I'm at right now. Jones is closer to a finished product so you're kinda not really getting value at 10 for him. Back half of the first or our pick in the second and id jump all over that.

I'm all for Lock just would hate the trade up. I understand he has some concerns but lets be honest every qb does coming out. Heck Mayfield who I liked because he looked off safeties and I thought was a very good passer coming out. There were concerns about the offense he was in. You know the one where they hold up the pictures to determine the play.

Anyway, Lock to me has a higher chance than Jones to be a franchise qb, but he also has a higher chance of busting. 

I respect Elway for putting in a nurture type staff to help out a young qb that's why I'm so against trading up.  People are saying we need to get to 2 to get lock because elway and the niners organization are good buddies. Or the Jets at 3 bc they gave up picks to the colts. And I say no this team has too many holes at positions of need to protect a qb we draft cant see us getting rid of a ton of stuff to move up. 

 

 

But my last point I think people on here overrate roster depth.  They're really not many rosters in the NFL that are deep.  I mean look how bad the rams the superbowl team were on d without talib night and day. 

[thebestever6]

And its not just A trade up that would bother me. If Lock becomes a franchise qb and we had to trade up no one will care I won't even care at that point.

It's Elway getting stuff out their leading the hype train. Killing any leverage. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

It’s also important to remember that Paxton didn’t fail here because he was big, athletic and had a strong arm. Paxton didn’t work out because football wasn’t important enough to him. That doesn’t seem to be an issue with Drew Lock and from what I have read, the flaws in his game seem to be those that can be corrected. 

History is littered with QBs who check every box but don’t pan out just like it is littered with guys with lots of supposed flaws who go on to have very good careers.