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The best 5 QB environments in the league


Hunter2_1

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1-2.(KC and LAR) It's probably Goff and Mahomes at the top, right? Goff for having a match-made-in-heaven coach and the best RB in the league, as well as a functioning OL and some good WRs. Mahomes for having the best collection of weapons in the league and a HC that dials up some lab-experiment-like plays for him to use said weapons

3. (PIT) I'd argue Ben has the next best. He's the cleanest QB in the league, according to Rosenfels, and that's partly due to the excellent OL up there in Pittsburgh. He has the best WR in the league, and a fantastic RB in either Bell or Conner. The other parts are good too. Defense is about average, I guess.

4. (CHI) Trubisky? Has good weapons, and the perfect coach who calls a lot of plays (particularly ones that stretch horizontally and where he can use his athleticism)

5. (NO or NE) Brees or Brady. Brees for having the perfect coach possibls for him, and a few really good weapons in Kamara, the OL and Thomas. Brady for having great coaching around him, and a couple of mismatch nightmares to use

 

Yours?

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7 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

Yours?

Matt Ryan is in this discussion, right? A growing rookie at WR, a top 5 WR, a veteran #3 in Sanu, two versatile RBs in Freeman and Coleman, a solid OL with a top LT, a serviceable TE...

Phillip Rivers with his offense is good too - Keenan Allen, Mike Williams as a 1/2, Tyrell Williams as a deep threat, Melvin Gordon/Austin Eckler as RBs, a dependable OL...if Hunter Henry is healthy, you also have a really strong TE who can work the seam effectively.

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Crazy how quickly things change, just last year Eagles would be top 3 with their stout OL, 2 very reliable targets, and QB whisperer coaching staff. A few years before that it'd have been the Packers with all their weapons and McCarthy's great rep. I'm going to try and approach this more long term, so I'm not just answering "who has the best supporting cast right now?" Of course supporting cast factors in, but if we're talking environment I think coaching staff and FO's competence matter just as much, and consistency is big.

  1. Saints. Brees is an all time talent, but you don't put up the numbers he's had over the last 10+ years unless you are in an amazing QBing environment. This is thanks to Payton, a bonafide offensive guru, and a FO that has done a good job of replenishing weapons and OL. Only a few years can I recall the Saints not fielding a solid OL. This year in particular they are relying on a pair of great backs and not even asking their QB to do the heavy lifting. If you could start your NFL career as a QB anywhere, it'd have to be here.
  2. Patriots. Possibly the greatest coach of all time in your corner who is able to find, and mold, great assistant coach after great assistant coach. Great player after player. You know he is going to keep the machine going. Past few years I'd say the QB was being leaned upon too heavily, but when the ability to run is there, you know BB will almost have a run first mentality. Not the greatest supporting cast at the moment, average at best receiving corp and OL is nothing special, but we've seen BB with the same QBs run vastly different offenses so I have no doubt he and his staff can also adjust to his QB's talents when he doesn't have an all time great operating the offense and still make it efficient.
  3. Chiefs. Andy Reid is one of the best "QB gurus" of all time, you definitely want to learn from him. Alex Smith has never been even a borderline top 10 QB but his career in KC was top 10 numbers. Now, on top of Reid and co's good job at scheming and teaching the QB how to operate within the system, they are pretty loaded at skill position to go along with a pretty solid OL at the moment.
  4. Rams. Not even 2 years yet but it does look like McVay is a great offensive mind who maximizes his QB's play. An innovative and flexible young coach is great to have if you're a young QB yourself. Now, where McVay or the staff lack the track record of the above coaches, they make up for in the talent they are (were.. RIP Kupp) currently fielding. Best WR trio in the business, best RB in the game, and a very good OL. 
  5. Steelers. Coaching isn't really much of a selling point here, Tomlin is a defensive guy and Ben has had several OCs. This is more about the FO and current talent. This FO has constantly replenished the offensive talent and given Ben great weapons to work with. Probably the best at drafting WR over the past 10 years, and lately they have done a great job with the OL too. This has allowed them to field great run games so that the QB does not have to carry the offense, but when the QB does need to make plays, he's got great weapons to throw too and this has been true for the better part of the last 6 or 7 years.

 

Top 5 supporting casts right now? I'd probably go

  1. Rams
  2. Chiefs
  3. Saints
  4. Steelers
  5. Falcons

So mostly the same, except for the Patriots who are probably not even in my top 10.

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1 hour ago, ET80 said:

Matt Ryan is in this discussion, right? A growing rookie at WR, a top 5 WR, a veteran #3 in Sanu, two versatile RBs in Freeman and Coleman, a solid OL with a top LT, a serviceable TE...

Phillip Rivers with his offense is good too - Keenan Allen, Mike Williams as a 1/2, Tyrell Williams as a deep threat, Melvin Gordon/Austin Eckler as RBs, a dependable OL...if Hunter Henry is healthy, you also have a really strong TE who can work the seam effectively.

You are right about the weapons, but the o-line isn't very good. The line play is one reason why I think Rivers season is being underrated. He is has been Brady like in his pocket movement all year and it is a big reason why the offense can function at a high level. 

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3 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

1-2.(KC and LAR) It's probably Goff and Mahomes at the top, right? Goff for having a match-made-in-heaven coach and the best RB in the league, as well as a functioning OL and some good WRs. Mahomes for having the best collection of weapons in the league and a HC that dials up some lab-experiment-like plays for him to use said weapons

3. (PIT) I'd argue Ben has the next best. He's the cleanest QB in the league, according to Rosenfels, and that's partly due to the excellent OL up there in Pittsburgh. He has the best WR in the league, and a fantastic RB in either Bell or Conner. The other parts are good too. Defense is about average, I guess.

4. (CHI) Trubisky? Has good weapons, and the perfect coach who calls a lot of plays (particularly ones that stretch horizontally and where he can use his athleticism)

5. (NO or NE) Brees or Brady. Brees for having the perfect coach possibls for him, and a few really good weapons in Kamara, the OL and Thomas. Brady for having great coaching around him, and a couple of mismatch nightmares to use

 

Yours?

I think this is about right.  Until proven otherwise, I have KC as number 1 environment.  I mean, Alex Smith was a legitimate MVP candidate for half the year last year.  And Mahomes first year starting might set all time NFL records.

Rams I'd go number 2.  I think McVay is like Sean Payton, except without the same stubbornness on defense.

Pit, NO, NE, Falcons in some order.

 

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On 13/11/2018 at 9:35 PM, RandyMossIsBoss said:

Crazy how quickly things change, just last year Eagles would be top 3 with their stout OL, 2 very reliable targets, and QB whisperer coaching staff. A few years before that it'd have been the Packers with all their weapons and McCarthy's great rep. I'm going to try and approach this more long term, so I'm not just answering "who has the best supporting cast right now?" Of course supporting cast factors in, but if we're talking environment I think coaching staff and FO's competence matter just as much, and consistency is big.

  1. Saints. Brees is an all time talent, but you don't put up the numbers he's had over the last 10+ years unless you are in an amazing QBing environment. This is thanks to Payton, a bonafide offensive guru, and a FO that has done a good job of replenishing weapons and OL. Only a few years can I recall the Saints not fielding a solid OL. This year in particular they are relying on a pair of great backs and not even asking their QB to do the heavy lifting. If you could start your NFL career as a QB anywhere, it'd have to be here.
  2. Patriots. Possibly the greatest coach of all time in your corner who is able to find, and mold, great assistant coach after great assistant coach. Great player after player. You know he is going to keep the machine going. Past few years I'd say the QB was being leaned upon too heavily, but when the ability to run is there, you know BB will almost have a run first mentality. Not the greatest supporting cast at the moment, average at best receiving corp and OL is nothing special, but we've seen BB with the same QBs run vastly different offenses so I have no doubt he and his staff can also adjust to his QB's talents when he doesn't have an all time great operating the offense and still make it efficient.
  3. Chiefs. Andy Reid is one of the best "QB gurus" of all time, you definitely want to learn from him. Alex Smith has never been even a borderline top 10 QB but his career in KC was top 10 numbers. Now, on top of Reid and co's good job at scheming and teaching the QB how to operate within the system, they are pretty loaded at skill position to go along with a pretty solid OL at the moment.
  4. Rams. Not even 2 years yet but it does look like McVay is a great offensive mind who maximizes his QB's play. An innovative and flexible young coach is great to have if you're a young QB yourself. Now, where McVay or the staff lack the track record of the above coaches, they make up for in the talent they are (were.. RIP Kupp) currently fielding. Best WR trio in the business, best RB in the game, and a very good OL. 
  5. Steelers. Coaching isn't really much of a selling point here, Tomlin is a defensive guy and Ben has had several OCs. This is more about the FO and current talent. This FO has constantly replenished the offensive talent and given Ben great weapons to work with. Probably the best at drafting WR over the past 10 years, and lately they have done a great job with the OL too. This has allowed them to field great run games so that the QB does not have to carry the offense, but when the QB does need to make plays, he's got great weapons to throw too and this has been true for the better part of the last 6 or 7 years.

 

Top 5 supporting casts right now? I'd probably go

  1. Rams
  2. Chiefs
  3. Saints
  4. Steelers
  5. Falcons

So mostly the same, except for the Patriots who are probably not even in my top 10.

Nice post.

Just to follow up on something. With the Pats, you have them as 2nd (for the future) due to, primarily, great coaching, assistance and the ability to mould the team to support the QB. But you don't have NE in the top 10 now, despite having that great coach, assistant and the moulding of the team (for example, run game). Is this because you are inferring, at the moment, that BB and co. aren't doing their job in that regard, and they're not providing the QB with the necessary scheming, pieces etc? Or is it more a case of the supporting casts on the field aren't there, this season, but probably will be in the future? 

Second, how far are SF from being in this conversation (for the future)? I was toying with them being in top 5, with Shanny and co.

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On 11/15/2018 at 2:30 PM, Hunter2_1 said:

Nice post.

Just to follow up on something. With the Pats, you have them as 2nd (for the future) due to, primarily, great coaching, assistance and the ability to mould the team to support the QB. But you don't have NE in the top 10 now, despite having that great coach, assistant and the moulding of the team (for example, run game). Is this because you are inferring, at the moment, that BB and co. aren't doing their job in that regard, and they're not providing the QB with the necessary scheming, pieces etc? Or is it more a case of the supporting casts on the field aren't there, this season, but probably will be in the future? 

Second, how far are SF from being in this conversation (for the future)? I was toying with them being in top 5, with Shanny and co.

This. I am basically viewing this year as an anomaly of sorts, and so I certainly expect his on field supporting cast to be approaching top 5 territory again soon. If I didn't have that kind of faith, then I wouldn't hold them in such high regards. Although even in down years, I'd say NE provides Brady with an above average cast, and it's that kind of consistency, which I think is thanks to BB and why I love that environment (of course it hard to completely separate Brady from the success and how everyone around him looks, he is a QB who elevates players)

 

Too early to really make a call on SF. Lost the QB and RB they largely built the offense around. I do like Shanny, but need to see him with Jimmy G for real.

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1. Brees and the saints . They play in a dome for about 10 games a year and he always puts up top tier stats.   I can see how others get picked, the league is really for the passing game and other teams deserve the credit too.  I just know that playing Brees in the dome would be the last place I would want my D to go play.  He has been so accurate and isn't throwing the ball to the opposition either. If it matters in this thread, the Saints also have a top OL and run the ball with a top tier 2 RB committee.  I don't see anyone stopping the saints offence if they are healthy and indoors or with decent weather (no serious rain or snow or slush) .  

The other teams might be as good, they have their ways with defences and can score at will it seems.  This playoff season should include  some serious scoring games, I would say 75 points in many of the games that have the Rams, Chiefs and Saints.  

After how the Steelers played for 3 quarters last weekend, they showed how they can fail on any given week  . I know the jags D has talent, but the steelers have done this so often over the years, so I won't include them .

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