MacReady Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Read the thread title just like this: I am about to provide irrevocable proof that it's not McCarthy, but Rodgers that keeps us from taking what the defense gives us and moving the ball. 1995, McCarthy is QB coach for the Kansas City Chiefs --QB Steve Bono-- Marcus Allen - 27 receptions, 210 yards Kimble Anderson - 55 receptions, 349 yards, 2 TD Donnel Bennett - 1 reception, 12 yards Greg Hill - 7 receptions, 45 yards Leroy Thompson - 9 receptions, 37 yards 1995 totals - 98 receptions, 653 yards, 2 TD 1996, McCarthy is QB coach for the Kansas City Chiefs --QB Steve Bono-- Marcus Allen - 27 receptions, 270 yards Kimble Anderson - 60 receptions, 529 yards, 2 TD Donnel Bennett - 8 receptions, 21 yards Greg Hill - 3 receptions, 60 yards Leroy Thompson - 9 receptions, 37 yards Tony Richardson - 2 receptions, 18 yards, 1 TD 1996 totals - 109 receptions, 907 yards, 3 TD 1997, McCarthy is QB coach for the Kansas City Chiefs --Elvis Grbac/Rich Gannon-- Marcus Allen - 11 receptions, 86 yards Kimble Anderson - 59 receptions, 453 yards, 2 TD Donnel Bennett - 7 receptions, 5 yards Greg Hill - 12 receptions, 126 yards Tony Richardson - 3 receptions, 6 yards, 3 TD 1997 totals - 92 receptions, 676 yards, 5 TD 1998, McCarthy is QB coach for the Kansas City Chiefs --Elvis Grbac/Rich Gannon--Kimble Anderson - 64 receptions, 462 yards, 2 TD Donnel Bennett - 16 receptions, 91 yards, 1 TD Tony Richardson - 2 receptions, 13 yards Bam Morris - 12 receptions, 95 yards (in 10 games after a midseason trade) Rashaan Shehee (what a last name) - 10 receptions, 73 yards 1997 totals - 104 receptions, 734 yards, 3 TD 1999, McCarthy is QB coach for the Green Bay Packers. --QB Brett Favre-- William Henderson - 30 receptions, 203 yards, 1 TD. Basil Mitchell - 6 receptions, 48 yards De'Mond Parker - 4 receptions, 15 yards Dorsey Levens - 71 receptions, 573 yards, 1 TD (Career High in Receptions) 1999 Totals - 111 receptions by running backs, 839 yards, 2 TD Why am I pointing out numbers when McCarthy was a QB coach? Because one of the frequent counter responses is that if McCarthy can't get Rodgers to take what's given to him, he should be fired. I disagree. Telling a QB who has reached Aaron's level in the eyes of the fans is like convincing the President of the United States not to Tweet. This shows a history of McCarthy being able to get other quarterbacks, Hall of Fame quarterbacks included, to pass to the running backs. During McCarthy's time as a QB coach, his quarterbacks averaged the following per year: 103 receptions for Running Backs 762 receiving yards to running backs 3 receiving touchdowns to running backs On to McCarthy's time as offensive coordinator: 2000, McCarthy is Offensive Coordinator of the Saints --QB Jeff Blake/Aaron Brooks-- Terry Allen - 1 Reception, 7 yards Chad Morton - 30 receptions, 213 yards Terrell Smith - 12 receptions, 65 yards Ricky Williams - 44 receptions, 409 yards, 1 TD 2000 totals - 87 receptions, 694 yards, 1 TD 2001, McCarthy is Offensive Coordinator of the Saints --QB Aaron Brooks-- James Fenderson - 6 receptions, 38 yards Terrell Smith - 4 receptions, 30 yards Ricky Williams - 60 receptions, 511 yards, 1 TD Deuce McAllister - 15 receptions, 166 yards, 1 TD 2001 totals - 85 receptions, 745 yards, 2 TD 2002, McCarthy is Offensive Coordinator of the Saints --QB Aaron Brooks-- James Fenderson - 6 receptions, 38 yards Terrell Smith - 9 receptions, 30 yards Deuce McAllister - 47 receptions, 352 yards, 3 TD 2002 totals - 62 receptions, 420 yards, 3 TD 2003, McCarthy is Offensive Coordinator of the Saints --QB Aaron Brooks-- Ki-Jana Carter - 1 reception, 11 yards Terrell Smith - 6 receptions, 28 yards Deuce McAllister - 69 receptions, 516 yards 2003 totals - 76 receptions, 555 yards, 2004, McCarthy is Offensive Coordinator of the Saints --QB Aaron Brooks-- Mike Karney - 6 receptions, 42 yards Terrell Smith - 6 receptions, 28 yards Deuce McAllister - 34 receptions, 228 yards Aaron Stecker - 29 receptions, 174 yards 2004 totals - 75 receptions, 472 yards, 2005, McCarthy is Offensive Coordinator of the 49ers --QB Ken Dorsey, Alex Smith, Cody Pickett, Tim Rattay-- Kevan Barlow - 31 receptions, 241 yards Frank Gore - 15 receptions, 131 yards Maurice Hicks - 12 receptions, 47 yards Fred Beasley - 2 receptions, 12 yards Chris Hetherington - 5 receptions, 26 yards 2005 totals - 65 receptions, 457 yards @flyers0909, @thebitzman, His season as OC of the Niners was one of offensive ineptitude. They lost 5 games by two scores or more. In this season, 40 of the 65 receptions by running backs were made in games decided by 2 scores or less. It's clear that the reason behind the low numbers here is that their offense could not keep up when their defense didn't slow an opponent down, so they were forced to have to try to get bigger chunks. Offensive Coordinator Totals 450 receptions, 3343 yards, 6 touchdowns 2006, McCarthy is Head Coach of the Packers --Brett Favre-- William Henderson - 12 receptions, 62 yards Noah Herron - 29 receptions, 211 yards, 2 TD Ahman Green - 46 receptions, 373 yards, 1 TD Brandon Miree - 9 receptions, 57 yards 2006 totals - 96 receptions, 703 yards, 3 TD 2007, McCarthy is Head Coach of the Packers --Brett Favre-- DeShawn Wynn - 9 receptions, 73 yards Ryan Grant - 30 receptions, 145 yards Korey Hall - 8 receptions, 49 yards Brandon Jackson - 16 receptions, 130 yards John Kuhn - 2 receptions, 7 yards Vernand Morency - 30 receptions, 199 yards 2007 totals - 95 receptions, 603 yards, 3 TD 2008, McCarthy is Head Coach of the Packers --Aaron Rodgers-- DeShawn Wynn - 3 receptions, 30 yards Ryan Grant - 18, 161, 1 TD Korey Hall - 7, 38, 1 TD Brandon Jackson - 30 receptions, 185 yards John Kuhn - 4 receptions, 21 yards, 2 TD 2008 totals - 62 receptions, 435 yards, 4 TD Aaron's first year - Tied with the lowest amount of receptions to running backs in McCarthy's entire time as a coach either QB coach or higher. The RB comparison - James Fenderson, Terrell Smith, Deuce McAllister versus Grant and Jackson. 2009, McCarthy is Head Coach of the Packers --Aaron Rodgers-- DeShawn Wynn - 2 receptions, 19 yards Quinn Johnson - 2 receptions, 4 yards Ryan Grant - 25 receptions, 197 yards Korey Hall - 5 receptions, 41 yards Brandon Jackson - 21 receptions, 187 yards John Kuhn - 7 receptions, 41 yards 2009 totals - 62 receptions. Three of McCarthy's years as a QB coach or higher had 62 receptions for running backs. Two of which were Aaron. We're only into Aaron's second year. 2010, McCarthy is Head Coach of the Packers --Aaron Rodgers-- Dimitri Nance - 3 receptions, 30 yards James Starks - 2 receptions, 15 yards Korey Hall - 1 reception, 9 yards Brandon Jackson - 43 receptions, 342 yards John Kuhn - 15 receptions, 97 yards 2010 totals - 64 receptions. 2011, McCarthy is Head Coach of the Packers --Aaron Rodgers-- 74 receptions 2012 40 receptions for running backs 2013 With Rodgers (8 games) - 24 Without Rodgers (8 games) - 34 2014 65 receptions to running backs (in a year Lacy averaged 10.2 yards per reception) 2015 70 receptions (we all remember this year, it was the year our offense looked worse than ever). 70 receptions to running backs. That's all. Aaron Rodgers versus his contemporaries: Aaron Rodgers average targets of RB: 84.5Tom Brady RB targets per year average: 123.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 14, 2018 Author Share Posted November 14, 2018 I didn't mean to post this this early. It's not finished. I was planning on adding RB targets and completions of Aaron's contemporaries, and I will, to show that Aaron Rodgers neglects his running backs unlike any other Hall of Fame caliber QB perhaps of all time. I used McCarthy's early coaching experience to prove this is not a McCarthy thing. I think that's quite clear from the numbers. While he was a QB coach, for two different teams and 4 different quarterbacks, McCarthy's quarterbacks averaged 103 receptions for Running Backs per season. Rodgers has never gotten above 80 receptions to running backs in a single season. McCarthy is CLEARLY coaching his quarterbacks to take that open RB if it's there. This is not a McCarthy thing. It is abundantly clear, and will become even more clear once I finish this, that Rodgers is the single solitary outlier when it comes to targeting running backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 I mean when you have the likes of Jennings, Driver, Jones, Nelson, Cobb, Finley, Adams you probably want to get the balls to them over your backs. I don't think having some odd 20-30 less receptions each year from your RBs is such a big deal when you have those kinds of weapons. Also Brandon Jackson had 40+ in 2010 with a lot of weapons, Super Bowl champs, Rodgers won MVP in 2011 without throwing a ton to RBs with a ton of weapons, 2012 you had musical Chairs at RB and not really anyone got going, 2013 you can't really count because he was hurt, 5-2 before he got hurt, 2014 Lacy had 40+, MVP again, 2015 Starks had 40+ (first down year for Rodgers), 2016 Monty had 40+( not to mention when he became a RB he got tons more receptions by Rodgers)NFC Championship, 2017 he was hurt, 4-1 before he was hurt. Sure he hasn't featured them as much as you'd like, but I dont think its negativily affected things as much as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lodestar Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Peyton Manning didn't throw to his backs all that often either. One year in Indy he completed 450 passes and only like 50 went to RBs. That said, I am standing by to learn all about Aaron's historic disregard for his backfield mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Good info to consider. I’ve noticed Rodgers accuracy is a bit off at throwing the short stuff. Outside of lasers to the sideline at the line of scrimmage, I rarely see anymore screens, and only in the past few games have I seen him start to hit the check down. Is it because Rodgers dislikes these plays/throws and refuses to acquiesce to Mac’s scheme, or, are these plays just not part of Mac’s scheme....now? I really don’t know. Someone should ask him. I think to some degree why you see Mac a part of schemes that employed more receptions to running backs, is that that was back in the day of the classic west coast offenses. Another thing to consider is that at times during Mac’s tenure here, our RB personnel hasn’t been well suited for these types of plays. Capable, yes, just not their forte. I think this, combined with Rodgers preference for the longer developing throws, could support your theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Is it McCarthy who doesn't involve his RBs in the running game as much as he does the receivers or Rodgers? It appears from your info here that it is McCarthy who over the years who has his QBs throw to the WRs/TEs more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyers0909 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 6 hours ago, Outpost31 said: I didn't mean to post this this early. It's not finished. I was planning on adding RB targets and completions of Aaron's contemporaries, and I will, to show that Aaron Rodgers neglects his running backs unlike any other Hall of Fame caliber QB perhaps of all time. I used McCarthy's early coaching experience to prove this is not a McCarthy thing. I think that's quite clear from the numbers. While he was a QB coach, for two different teams and 4 different quarterbacks, McCarthy's quarterbacks averaged 103 receptions for Running Backs per season. Rodgers has never gotten above 80 receptions to running backs in a single season. McCarthy is CLEARLY coaching his quarterbacks to take that open RB if it's there. This is not a McCarthy thing. It is abundantly clear, and will become even more clear once I finish this, that Rodgers is the single solitary outlier when it comes to targeting running backs. I think it's important to note that the number dropped to 75/year when he was an OC. Quote 70 receptions (we all remember this year, it was the year our offense looked worse than ever). 70 receptions to running backs. That's all. So 5 less than Mac's average as an OC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 7 hours ago, Outpost31 said: 2013 With Rodgers (8 games) - 24 Without Rodgers (8 games) - 34 The trio of Matt Flynn, Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace, all of which should be more likely to check it down due to talent level, threw it to running backs only 10 more times in 10 fewer attempts (280 to 290). Lesser QBs tend to check it down more, even then they didn't do it at a crazy high rate compared to Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyers0909 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Quote 1995, McCarthy is QB coach for the Kansas City Chiefs --QB Steve Bono-- Marcus Allen - 27 receptions, 210 yards Kimble Anderson - 55 receptions, 349 yards, 2 TD Donnel Bennett - 1 reception, 12 yards Greg Hill - 7 receptions, 45 yards Leroy Thompson - 9 receptions, 37 yards 1995 totals - 98 receptions, 653 yards, 2 TD The year before this Chiefs RBs had 132 receptions. Quote 1999, McCarthy is QB coach for the Green Bay Packers. --QB Brett Favre-- William Henderson - 30 receptions, 203 yards, 1 TD. Basil Mitchell - 6 receptions, 48 yards De'Mond Parker - 4 receptions, 15 yards Dorsey Levens - 71 receptions, 573 yards, 1 TD (Career High in Receptions) 1999 Totals - 111 receptions by running backs, 839 yards, 2 TD The year before McCarthy got there RBs had 102 receptions. I'm just not sure that McCarthy had that big an impact of targeting RBs when he was a QB coach. When taking over for teams as QB coach the numbers stayed relatively the same as the year before which I think means the OC/HC has more of an impact on those numbers. Then when Mac takes over as OC, those reception numbers take a huge dip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fl0nkerton Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 ITT: We want our all-world QB to be Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kepler Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Packerraymond said: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But it is broke. If my sarcasm detector is broke I apologize in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 First off, thanks for the in depth look at the facts Outpost. Great research. Second, it would be interesting to see what the WR corp looked like on those other teams. Until recently, the Packers had a very good group of WRs as compared to a relatively meh group of RBs. (don't tell me Monty was good because he was unavailable for great stretches of his short time). Aaron seemed more willing to give it up to Jones last game, hopefully that will continue. MM is a good play caller. That's it. Good. You have to wonder what ARodg would do with a innovative, creative play caller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_gb Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Quote Aaron Rodgers believes the Packers "need to continue to give [Aaron Jones] more opportunities." Rodgers has been advocating for Jones all season, and there is no reason for him to stop after the running back broke out for 145 yards and two touchdowns on 15 carries against the Dolphins. Jones is already the clear No. 1 in Green Bay, and it sounds like his role could continue to grow. He is almost a must-start this week against the Seahawks. I'm just gonna leave this here and leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 8 hours ago, Outpost31 said: 2005, McCarthy is Offensive Coordinator of the 49ers --QB Ken Dorsey, Alex Smith, Cody Pickett, Tim Rattay-- Kevan Barlow - 31 receptions, 241 yards Frank Gore - 15 receptions, 131 yards Maurice Hicks - 12 receptions, 47 yards Fred Beasley - 2 receptions, 12 yards Chris Hetherington - 5 receptions, 26 yards 2005 totals - 65 receptions, 457 yards 8 hours ago, Outpost31 said: 2015 70 receptions (we all remember this year, it was the year our offense looked worse than ever). 70 receptions to running backs. That's all. In 2005 a McCarthy led the worst offense in the NFL. They were the 32nd ranked unit in yards and the 30th in points for. That offense threw to the RB less than the year "our offense looked worse than ever" with much worse QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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