elliot878 Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 10 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Hate comes from all sides. Read what people write on social media at / to / about those on the right. Hate comes in many forms and it comes from all sides. The political left in this country thinks they have some kind of moral superiority on this matter and they most certainly do not. Easy here, we're not going to let this thread go left, right, up or down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 57 minutes ago, elliot878 said: Easy here, we're not going to let this thread go left, right, up or down. Yeah sorry I wasn't trying to wander into forbidden topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I have to say that I disagree the approach of AAA on this one. To start with - after nearly 40 years of political activism I have never seen 'hate' coming from the left - anger, yes - hate, no - hate is restricted to those like the nutjobs in Charlottesville who called on whites to arm themselves for a race war. On top of that what is considered 'left' in America would be considered softy liberal here in Ireland - nearly 10% of the Irish Parliament is made up of representatives who would be described as 'far-left' or 'revolutionary Marxists' (and again I have never heard any of them express 'hate' against any section of society). I fully support Kaepernick and any other footballer who stands up (or in Kaep's case kneels down) - he has a right to freedom of expression and the right to express dissent. I have not stood up for the Irish national anthem since I was a teenager (and I am in my late 50s) because I do not agree with the sentiments expressed in it or the symbolism it stands for. A couple of years ago Penn State played UFC - I went with my son to a college football game in Croke Park in Dublin in the middle of 20,000 Penn State fans and stayed sitting during the American national anthem. I received dogs abuse from many of the people around me and had to remind them which country they were in. Furthermore, I objected to the military jingoism before the game, the parading of US troops, the fly-by by a US fighter jet etc. For 15 years I have lived beside an airport where several US troop and equipment carrier planes land every day bringing military personnel and equipment to and from Iraq. In open breach of the Irish constitution the troops walk around the airport (and around the locality when they have an overnighter) carrying weapons, the cargo planes carry military hardware and when locals protest they are visited by local police and threatened. When protests take place CIA personnel openly film protesters in the grounds of the airport. I find all of this highly objectionable and when I take a stand at a football match in my country then I should be respected, not abused, by football fans that are visitors to here. In my opinion Elway has not gone far enough (but it is hardly surprising). I would have liked to see Elway saying that he gave 100% support to any footballer who engaged in protest or dissent - it is a fundamental human right in a democracy. Kaepernick has been treated disgracefully - the guy, talent-wise is way above QBs who will start this season - he is being victimised for taking a stand about something that is important to him. The attitude is that 'you can protest all you want' as long as you don't do something we don't like. That is not democracy - it is a sham - and the entire NFL should be ashamed of themselves. But then again - all of this is not a surprise. Elway went as far as he needed to keep his players onside (and several supported Kaep) - and limited his comments so as not to impact on the NFL brand and all it stands for in terms of a section of American society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 1 hour ago, jolly red giant said: I have to say that I disagree the approach of AAA on this one. To start with - after nearly 40 years of political activism I have never seen 'hate' coming from the left - anger, yes - hate, no - hate is restricted to those like the nutjobs in Charlottesville who called on whites to arm themselves for a race war. On top of that what is considered 'left' in America would be considered softy liberal here in Ireland - nearly 10% of the Irish Parliament is made up of representatives who would be described as 'far-left' or 'revolutionary Marxists' (and again I have never heard any of them express 'hate' against any section of society). I fully support Kaepernick and any other footballer who stands up (or in Kaep's case kneels down) - he has a right to freedom of expression and the right to express dissent. I have not stood up for the Irish national anthem since I was a teenager (and I am in my late 50s) because I do not agree with the sentiments expressed in it or the symbolism it stands for. A couple of years ago Penn State played UFC - I went with my son to a college football game in Croke Park in Dublin in the middle of 20,000 Penn State fans and stayed sitting during the American national anthem. I received dogs abuse from many of the people around me and had to remind them which country they were in. Furthermore, I objected to the military jingoism before the game, the parading of US troops, the fly-by by a US fighter jet etc. For 15 years I have lived beside an airport where several US troop and equipment carrier planes land every day bringing military personnel and equipment to and from Iraq. In open breach of the Irish constitution the troops walk around the airport (and around the locality when they have an overnighter) carrying weapons, the cargo planes carry military hardware and when locals protest they are visited by local police and threatened. When protests take place CIA personnel openly film protesters in the grounds of the airport. I find all of this highly objectionable and when I take a stand at a football match in my country then I should be respected, not abused, by football fans that are visitors to here. In my opinion Elway has not gone far enough (but it is hardly surprising). I would have liked to see Elway saying that he gave 100% support to any footballer who engaged in protest or dissent - it is a fundamental human right in a democracy. Kaepernick has been treated disgracefully - the guy, talent-wise is way above QBs who will start this season - he is being victimised for taking a stand about something that is important to him. The attitude is that 'you can protest all you want' as long as you don't do something we don't like. That is not democracy - it is a sham - and the entire NFL should be ashamed of themselves. But then again - all of this is not a surprise. Elway went as far as he needed to keep his players onside (and several supported Kaep) - and limited his comments so as not to impact on the NFL brand and all it stands for in terms of a section of American society. NFL teams and the NFL itself are private entities. They have the right to not allow players to make political and/or any of kind of statements that would affect their bottom line on their own platform. Now thankfully, owners and commissioners have not put a stop to it because I think something positive have come out of the all protests. And their are legitimate reasons (both current and historic) behind the protests. However, this is not and never has been a free speech issue. No one has threatened to jail NFL players for speaking out. They have freedom of speech, just not freedom from consequences of free speech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliot878 Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 This has begun to veer away from the Broncos and the organizational culture, so I'm going to lock it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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