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WEEK 11 GDT - Steelers at Jaguars


skywlker32

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1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

Also on the Twitter image i posted got that from the Jags forum, guess ppl are saying its Ramseys fault, i do know none of us blamed him. I just used it as a way to break down the play.

Look at most the big plays that the Jags got burned on this year. A deep-ish route double move when the pass rush doesn't get home.  They rely on the pass rush getting home, so the secondary can jump on the initial break.  If the pass rush is there the QB has to throw it and the DB can break and drive on that move.  If it isn't, the WR can make a second move and burn the DB who already broke.

It's what Seattle did.  It's what Atlanta does.  It's what the Pete Carroll defensive coaching tree does.  Cover-3 or Cover-4 where you are taught to jump routes.  They just move Ramsey and Bouye to move with WR's to give the shell look and have the better matchup in that area.  What Brown did shows what can happen when you attack the edge of the zone and have the time to double move.

Ben typically struggles with that because he's not a comfortable in the pocket guy.  He hears ghosts back there.  So when he was moving in the pocket and hears someone that isn't there, he throws it and plays right into the hands.

The reason he had a different result against Atlanta than against Jacksonville despite playing the exact same is Atlanta never pushed the pocket.  Ben was able to sit back and read and pump fake.

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2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

This is the post that you made that finally proved yourself wrong. Seriously, do I think Ramsey would have made the same mistake? Yes, considering HE DID of sorts when AB made him look silly on a double move and the only reason Ramsey didnt get roasted for 6 is Ben never looked at AB, never threw it to him.

I get your agenda here to prove yourself right but the Jags have a talented secondary, you guarantee NOTHING by moving a guy, occasionally you might get lucky but had AB not gone off script, we wouldve just seen another interception or incompletion 

Welp, it was kind of a trick question...You do realize Ramsey actually doesn’t make that mistake...on this play. He stays in his responsibility because it’s Antonio Brown. Deeper than the deepest....especially if that player is all world. Again, attempting to get your best player in people who shouldn’t cover him is the point.

And look how wide open Switz is. The play is not another interception or incompletion. But who knows with Ben. 

Just had fun rewatching the second half on gamepass, where Brown almost exclusively lines up out of huddles on the left (which is also what he did in the playoff game last year to so much success, which is kinda why I harped on it) after lining up the majority on the right in the first half. Also the fun coaching adjustment - their corners don’t travel in no huddle so we were lining AB up out of huddle on the left, then moving him to the right on Bouye immediately in the no huddle. 

Kinda strange that an NFL coaching staff agrees with and implemented a lot of what a guy who doesn’t know what he is talking about was saying? I’m sure that was just a coincidence though. 

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15 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

after lining up the majority on the right in the first half.

You know why they do this right?

Ben's 'go to' audible if the box is jammed up is the stepback 1 drop WR screen to Brown.  That only works if Brown is on Ben's right.  When play calls put Brown on Ben's right that audible is taken out of his hands.  For some reason Ben does not feel comfortable doing this same call with Juju or Switz, even though I think the swing from the slot 1.5 step drop screen with Switz in the slot and Juju outside would work better than the lone Brown on the right.

EDIT:

Anyways, but that's why Brown is on Ben's right more often than not, especially early in games.  It gives Ben the easy outlet.

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1 hour ago, warfelg said:

You know why they do this right?

Ben's 'go to' audible if the box is jammed up is the stepback 1 drop WR screen to Brown.  That only works if Brown is on Ben's right.  When play calls put Brown on Ben's right that audible is taken out of his hands.  For some reason Ben does not feel comfortable doing this same call with Juju or Switz, even though I think the swing from the slot 1.5 step drop screen with Switz in the slot and Juju outside would work better than the lone Brown on the right.

EDIT:

Anyways, but that's why Brown is on Ben's right more often than not, especially early in games.  It gives Ben the easy outlet.

I’m not saying your wrong, but I’d argue that it’s also not necessarily 100% right. Ben has full control to check to AB at anytime from anywhere, and does so often on run plays - but it’s usually specifically to the left because that’s the easier throw for a qb on one step  quicks. The jailbreak slant usually is the one that sticks out in run plays of boxes are loaded and coverage is off. 

Any sort of screen or bubble screen needs to be communicated for blockers and is usually a go/no go built into run playcalls but since they need communicated, they can generally be run to both sides. Not that it’s not their go to, but it’s strange to have such a defined tendency. 

If it’s just a built in stay, again easier and quicker to throw to the right handed QBs left. The feet are natural as opposed to switched. Takes longer to open to throw.

And even if that’s so, the finally 3 minutes of the first half are almost all pass, and almost all come with ab wide right. What your alluding to are run calls with a pass option. We only ran the ball 5 times in the first half  it wouldn’t explain the rest of the usage. 

Again, not saying your wrong (and not to be a doctor on the Internet), but my experience throwing those quicks wouldn’t be exclusively to my open side and the game flow doesn’t match the description 100% 

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2 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Hey it’s what I’ve been told. Ben prefers it to his right because he sees it better. 

Not to be nosy....but told by who? 

And that’s going to be read on the internet like I’m saying you made it up, but I’m absolutely 100% just genuinely curious and don’t mean it in any sort of rude way. 

I would just fight it because that tends to work against QB logic...but Ben tends to work against QB logic...so in reality, it’s probably 100%. 

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59 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Not to be nosy....but told by who? 

And that’s going to be read on the internet like I’m saying you made it up, but I’m absolutely 100% just genuinely curious and don’t mean it in any sort of rude way. 

I would just fight it because that tends to work against QB logic...but Ben tends to work against QB logic...so in reality, it’s probably 100%. 

2 different people who have been and are in the locker room with Ben. 

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32 minutes ago, warfelg said:

2 different people who have been and are in the locker room with Ben. 

In the locker room with Ben can be a plethora of things but fair enough. 

Just still seems odd that you would feel more comfortable with a quick screen pass because you “see it better”. Your decision to make the pass is made up before you snap the football.  The only thing you are going to see is a corner jump it...and again quicker to go the other way...but oh well. 

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2 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

In the locker room with Ben can be a plethora of things but fair enough. 

Just still seems odd that you would feel more comfortable with a quick screen pass because you “see it better”. Your decision to make the pass is made up before you snap the football.  The only thing you are going to see is a corner jump it...and again quicker to go the other way...but oh well. 

I will say i have heard a former rb coach mention very similar preferences about ben. It was kirby wilson if you have to have a name from my conversation 

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10 minutes ago, Big Snack said:

I will say i have heard a former rb coach mention very similar preferences about ben. It was kirby wilson if you have to have a name from my conversation 

One of the guys was a QB that told me this, and his reasoning holds true: Ben is an open hips arm thrower. What that means is when he’s throwing good his hole body is “open” relative to where he is throwing. So the concept for Ben is the left foot hits, the right foot lands open and it lets him use his arm. 

 

EDIT:

There's quite a few things about Ben as a QB that if people knew would say that it's completely against conventional QB wisdom.  This same guy told me Ben throws better on the run with the left foot planting before the right foot too.  Allows the body to help with the arm motion.  He said the way Ben anticipates routes is about the strangest thing he's heard and would frankly scare most fans if we knew more.

The guy currently in the locker room that told me about this too said the first think TomBert asked him in the interview was to go through a protection order in reverse within 5 seconds of a play they would show.  Why?  That's the order Ben reads the protection.  Normally you start with the MIKE and work from there, Ben starts with the edge and works his way in.  He said frankly it's why Juju and Brown and Ben work so well together.  Those two WR's were able to learn fast the way Ben see the the field and can pick up on that stuff, so they can have minimal communication to see what Ben sees. 

This same guy told me about how there's a difference in that same way between Bell and Conner.  Bell read the MIKE and Box Safety to know where to avoid, Conner reads the edge contain to know when to bounce back inside.  He told me in the bye week, that's why Conner is having such a good year.  The linemen aren't wall blocking to contain the MIKE and Box Safety.  They are trying to stretch the contain so the MIKE is more likely to overrun the play.  He also said a major difference is Bell liked the small gaps because he runs with a higher than average pad level, so taking on guys in the hole was a struggle, which is why he runs the way he runs.  Conner plays with a very low pad level and a wide pad level, so Conner hits holes when he sees them because he knows the power he can generate will more likely than not create a forward momentum at contact, increasing his chances of breaking the tackle.

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Good stuff War. Love hearing detail about this stuff. Apologies if it came off that I didn't believe you actually had insiders -- I'm a sport admin major (dont even do it) with plenty of friends in different pro teams in different aspects -- they all tell me they have inside info, they are all....liars. So I get skeptical of the information. 

That's good stuff though. 

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