Leader Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 59 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I don't think he fired van pelt though did he? Just didn't renew a contract. I thought the article stated that van pelt wanted to look into a coordinator position. This reads way more like Rodgers wanted him as OC in GB but MM had other ideas so van pelt left for an opportunity elsewhere. Do you know that van pelt wanted to stay here as the QB coach? I'd be surprised if that were actually the case. This is an interesting point that I'd never heard mentioned before. My understanding of the VP matter was that he'd advised MM he wanted to move on - well before (almost a year) before he actually left - which (in my mind.....) put this whole "ARs upsets VP left and he wasnt advised story" into a weird context. If he was so close to VP (as was portrayed) - I found it beyond believable that VP+AR hadnt discussed his not staying on beyond his current contract. Perhaps - (back to the OC possibility....) - thats what AR was actually upset about - that VP hadnt been kept on as OC - and it was misreported. Do we actually know this to be true (?) or we still reading tea leaves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 56 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Right, but it is known he didn't renew his contract (the year before) because he was looking to explore opportunities as a coordinator. Looks like maybe he just misjudged his value. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 27 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I don't buy that take in the article though. Just a writers opinion. Makes far more sense to me that VP wanted a promotion in the league, GB was not the place he was going to get it. So he moved on. This coincides perfectly with MMs statement that it was mutual decision to part ways. i.e. VP: I want to be OC, can I be that here now since the position is vacant? MM: no, but we'd love to keep you as QB coach. VP: no thanks. This is very common especially in high stakes fields. If you get passed over for a promotion, you don't stick around... Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsfolk Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 maybe pick someone from the Saints offensive staff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsfolk Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 maybe pick someone from the Saints offensive staff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acrid Josher Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 Too much to unpack from that article, but one early thing that annoyed me is the criticism that McCarthy isn't a "players coach." I've heard the opposite before, but regardless of the truth, do we really think that's a legit knock on a coach when the undisputed best coach of the modern era, Bill Belichik, is infamously not a 'players coach'? I mean, everyone wants to have a boss they can get along with, but at the end of the day the right boss from an organizational perspective isn't necessarily the one players most want to hang out with. Sometimes a "players coach" works out in the NFL (Pete Carrol) sometimes it doesn't (Rex Ryan). There is nothing inherently praiseworthy about that particular label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 23 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said: If Rodgers was close enough to eat dinners with Van Pelt's family, I am pretty sure Rodgers would know if Van Pelt was offered a position to come back. Agreed. But I'm saying VP wanted a promotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 25 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Agreed. But I'm saying VP wanted a promotion Again your stance makes sense for VP, but no sense as to why Aaron would say what he did about losing his QB coach. VP and Aaron are close, he would've have told him "hey I'm moving on to pursue other opportunities." It's quite clear that conversation never happened. Most likely because he was never offered a spot back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Packerraymond said: Again your stance makes sense for VP, but no sense as to why Aaron would say what he did about losing his QB coach. VP and Aaron are close, he would've have told him "hey I'm moving on to pursue other opportunities." It's quite clear that conversation never happened. Most likely because he was never offered a spot back. ...as OC LIS, it seems plausible AR wanted him back in that role. Or, based on Aaron's exactly words, he wanted to be part of that discussion. I mean MM literally stated that the decision had been made a year prior, too 😂 Occam's razor here. VP wanted a promotion, he wasn't going to get it here (this is what the real debate should be: do we think he should have??), so he moved on. Maybe Aaron thought he was closer to AVP than AVP thought he was to Aaron. For those of you with people you supervise and you let into some parts of your personal life, do you share EVERYTHING with them? I know I don't... I've had dinner with them, but I don't tell them if I applied for promotion or am looking at other jobs either. Pretty presumptuous to immediately think there's no way Aaron wouldn't have known just because some writer said they ate dinner together...😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 1 minute ago, incognito_man said: ...as OC LIS, it seems plausible AR wanted him back in that role. Or, based on Aaron's exactly words, he wanted to be part of that discussion. I mean MM literally stated that the decision had been made a year prior, too 😂 Occam's razor here. VP wanted a promotion, he wasn't going to get it here (this is what the real debate should be: do we think he should have??), so he moved on. Maybe Aaron thought he was closer to AVP than AVP thought he was to Aaron. For those of you with people you supervise and you let into some parts of your personal life, do you share EVERYTHING with them? I know I don't... I've had dinner with them, but I don't tell them if I applied for promotion or am looking at other jobs either. Pretty presumptuous to immediately think there's no way Aaron wouldn't have known just because some writer said they ate dinner together...😂 Sure that's fine and dandy, but after that job you got you wouldn't call those people and tell them the situation? Either VP just plain on decided to move on from Aaron or the talk he had with Aaron was that the Packers decided to move on from him. The quote is that it was an "interesting" decision to let VP go without consulting him. It's clear the message that got to Aaron was that VP wanted to continue coaching him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 29, 2018 Share Posted November 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Sure that's fine and dandy, but after that job you got you wouldn't call those people and tell them the situation? Either VP just plain on decided to move on from Aaron or the talk he had with Aaron was that the Packers decided to move on from him. The quote is that it was an "interesting" decision to let VP go without consulting him. It's clear the message that got to Aaron was that VP wanted to continue coaching him. No that's not clear at all 😂 Interesting is a non-word. Could literally mean dozens of things. If Aaron thought AVP wanted to stay on as QB coach he wasn't paying attention. Go look at everyone's responses at the time. MM and AVP knew a full year earlier it was going to be his last year in GB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 52 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Maybe Aaron thought he was closer to AVP than AVP thought he was to Aaron. For those of you with people you supervise and you let into some parts of your personal life, do you share EVERYTHING with them? I know I don't... These are good points. It just seemed that - from AR's perspective at least - that the two of them were tight. I got that impression at least and it would seem natural to me that if VP had decided to move on - some months to a year earlier - he'd have mentioned that to AR - the one and only guy he was working closely with. "Hey.....I'm gonna be looking for a job elsewhere when my contract's up....so lets knock it dead while I'm here........" Unless - it was a pending decision - such as his possibly becoming OC - that wasnt decided till the very end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Trace Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: Occam's razor here. VP wanted a promotion, he wasn't going to get it here (this is what the real debate should be: do we think he should have??), so he moved on. lol Occam's razor actually: Mac chose to hire Cignetti over retaining Van Pelt while the option existed to do so. Presumably, Rodgers's closeness to Van Pelt means he'd know if Van Pelt was not interested in coming back, or indeed would have if offered to reprise his role. I'll admit, it's possible that Van Pelt had no interest in staying and never made that clear to Rodgers. Hard to believe, but possible. Still, if you really are looking for the simplest explanation, you probably are not doing it right if you have to resort to mind-reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: No that's not clear at all 😂 Interesting is a non-word. Could literally mean dozens of things. If Aaron thought AVP wanted to stay on as QB coach he wasn't paying attention. Go look at everyone's responses at the time. MM and AVP knew a full year earlier it was going to be his last year in GB. Oh come on, stop pretending like Aaron hasn't been your QB since 2008. You know full well what "interesting" means in this case. Aaron's never going to take a direct shot at management, he's too professional. It's like when he said "everyone needs to be all in" after the Falcons loss and there were staunch Ted supporters who claimed that wasn't a shot on Ted. So you're completely throwing out the possibility that AVP didn't renew his contract because he wanted to see his market, but was very interested in coming back to a routinely top 10 offense with the best QB in football? Instead you think he wanted to go all in on an OC job with "I'll hope for the best" as his backup plan? You must think the guy is a real idiot. He's coaching on a staff that will most likely be all canned at years end, with a QB who is the definition of forever mediocre, he has absolutely no hopes of career advancement in Cincy, but I'm sure that's what he wanted and was all his choice. 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: Instead you think he wanted to go all in on an OC job with "I'll hope for the best" as his backup plan? You must think the guy is a real idiot. He's coaching on a staff that will most likely be all canned at years end, with a QB who is the definition of forever mediocre, he has absolutely no hopes of career advancement in Cincy, but I'm sure that's what he wanted and was all his choice Absolutely. It's pretty common for people to move on when passed on for promotions. I'm surprised you didn't know this, actually. Very common in my industry as well. Pretty sure it's common across many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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