turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Slateman said: 1. Orakpo did not play full time at linebacker in his rookie season. 2. He wasn't. If he was, prove it. I'm still waiting. 3. Orakpo wasn't better than Kerrigan. Kerrigan was better simply by virtue of actually being on the field the whole time. And my point is that we had two options: 1) Re-sign Orakpo to a big deal and retain him and hope that he didn't continue his decline; 2) Let Orakpo walk and replace him via the draft and free agency for less money. They chose option 2. They have easily replaced Orakpo's 2015-Present performance with their free agency moves, at a fraction of the cost (2 million in cap hit vs 7+ million). Had Orakpo gone on to produce like he did here, maybe. But he hasn't. He's been as close to 100% healthy as he could be, and he simply hasn't produced. Because his entire game is based on his ability to run around the opposing tackle and he isnt' as athletic as he was in 2009-2011. 4. If Orakpo is getting to the QB faster in Tennessee than Kerrigan is getting to the QB in Washington, Orakpo should have more sacks, shouldn't he? Orakpo averaged FEWER sacks per 16 games played while he and Kerrigan played together. (8.2 sacks per 16 games played vs 8.9 sacks per 16 games played). So exactly who was getting to the QB quicker? Seems more like Kerrigan became a better pass rusher and Orakpo never developed anything beyond trying to run past the blocker. Lmao. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Slateman said: 1. Orakpo did not play full time at linebacker in his rookie season. 2. He wasn't. If he was, prove it. I'm still waiting. 3. Orakpo wasn't better than Kerrigan. Kerrigan was better simply by virtue of actually being on the field the whole time. And my point is that we had two options: 1) Re-sign Orakpo to a big deal and retain him and hope that he didn't continue his decline; 2) Let Orakpo walk and replace him via the draft and free agency for less money. They chose option 2. They have easily replaced Orakpo's 2015-Present performance with their free agency moves, at a fraction of the cost (2 million in cap hit vs 7+ million). Had Orakpo gone on to produce like he did here, maybe. But he hasn't. He's been as close to 100% healthy as he could be, and he simply hasn't produced. Because his entire game is based on his ability to run around the opposing tackle and he isnt' as athletic as he was in 2009-2011. 4. If Orakpo is getting to the QB faster in Tennessee than Kerrigan is getting to the QB in Washington, Orakpo should have more sacks, shouldn't he? Orakpo averaged FEWER sacks per 16 games played while he and Kerrigan played together. (8.2 sacks per 16 games played vs 8.9 sacks per 16 games played). So exactly who was getting to the QB quicker? Seems more like Kerrigan became a better pass rusher and Orakpo never developed anything beyond trying to run past the blocker. Actually orakpo was a LBer his first season. The rest of your post is correct though, especially #2. He was terrible against the run, he would overpursue everything taking him completely out of the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/archive/42/was Orakpo definitely a 4-3 SLB as a rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: 2. Orakpo was strong against the run. I think you are not remembering Orakpo's play correctly, he was pretty terrible against the run. He would always blow right into the backfield and the RB would go right past him, his overpursuit killed him and completely took him out of plays. This happened over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 minute ago, MKnight82 said: I think you are not remembering Orakpo's play correctly, he was pretty terrible against the run. He would always blow right into the backfield and the RB would go right past him, his overpursuit killed him and completely took him out of plays. This happened over and over again. Sure that happens to all 4-3 DEs/3-4 OLBs at times, it was not all game long though, that’s an exaggeration. When Rak was playing the run, he was good at it. If he thought it was a pass and blew up field, just like any other 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE sure, he would take himself out of the play and have to pursue the play from behind and try to run down the back. Singling our Orakpo as the only defender that did this though is not accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Sure that happens to all 4-3 DEs/3-4 OLBs at times, it was not all game long though, that’s an exaggeration. When Rak was playing the run, he was good at it. If he thought it was a pass and blew up field, just like any other 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE sure, he would take himself out of the play and have to pursue the play from behind and try to run down the back. Singling our Orakpo as the only defender that did this though is not accurate. He really wasn't, I honestly think you aren't remembering this correctly. Orakpo was not a good defender against the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzy Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 I'd agree he would consistently create giant holes to run through all of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: He really wasn't, I honestly think you aren't remembering this correctly. Orakpo was not a good defender against the run. Look we’re just not going to agree. I’m not sitting here saying Orakpo was elite at anything - actually I never have - all I’m saying is that if he read run on a play and saw it early enough, he came down the line and made the play or he could set the edge. I’m not trying to say he was great at it, but he wasn’t awful at it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, rizzy said: I'd agree he would consistently create giant holes to run through all of the time Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzy Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Look we’re just not going to agree. I’m not sitting here saying Orakpo was elite at anything - actually I never have - all I’m saying is that if he read run on a play and saw it early enough, he came down the line and made the play or he could set the edge. I’m not trying to say he was great at it, but he wasn’t awful at it either. I can understand if you say he is good at stopping the run on 3rd and 1 or something when he knew the run was coming due to his strength. However what I am saying is that on a play where you didn't know if it was a run or a pass he was a liability to the run game in a way others aren't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, rizzy said: I can understand if you say he is good at stopping the run on 3rd and 1 or something when he knew the run was coming due to his strength. However what I am saying is that on a play where you didn't know if it was a run or a pass he was a liability to the run game in a way others aren't Sure sometimes, but not every play of his career. That’s all I’m saying. Look I hate to do this once again, but I have to compare Kerrigan and what he does sometimes and he too makes those same mistakes as do all 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs at times. For the 4 years Kerrigan and Orakpo played together I constantly saw the both of them make similar mistakes against the run or on bootlegs. This fanbase and media by enlarge would beat down Orakpo for making a mistake and give Kerrigan a pass for making the same mistake and it’s mostly continued for Kerrigan’s entire career. And, if someone like me says something honest about Kerrigan making a mistake then, all of a sudden I hate Kerrigan which is a crock of ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 26 minutes ago, rizzy said: I can understand if you say he is good at stopping the run on 3rd and 1 or something when he knew the run was coming due to his strength. However what I am saying is that on a play where you didn't know if it was a run or a pass he was a liability to the run game in a way others aren't This, well said. I feel like Orakpo played every down like it was a pass, and when it was a run he'd be in the backfield going for the QB and the RB would just run right by him. This happened over and over again taking him completely out of the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 53 minutes ago, rizzy said: I can understand if you say he is good at stopping the run on 3rd and 1 or something when he knew the run was coming due to his strength. However what I am saying is that on a play where you didn't know if it was a run or a pass he was a liability to the run game in a way others aren't He was simply a bad linebacker. He had one small area he did well in, and everywhere else he was not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanLegend Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Orakpo has been a good player here. Good pass rusher, good against the run, and the rare times we have used him in coverage, decent enough there. Not an elite player, but not a guy who has ever shown any real deficiencies before this season either. Sadly this year he's physically fallen off a cliff. His burst is gone and he just doesn't have the speed/athleticism to win off the edge anymore. He's still been solid against the run, as he's intelligent and knows how to fill his gaps and etc, but pass rushing he's been practically nonexistant. That being said, he's definitely performed well and certainly earned the deal we gave him 4 years ago IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 hours ago, TitanLegend said: Orakpo has been a good player here. Good pass rusher, good against the run, and the rare times we have used him in coverage, decent enough there. Not an elite player, but not a guy who has ever shown any real deficiencies before this season either. Sadly this year he's physically fallen off a cliff. His burst is gone and he just doesn't have the speed/athleticism to win off the edge anymore. He's still been solid against the run, as he's intelligent and knows how to fill his gaps and etc, but pass rushing he's been practically nonexistant. That being said, he's definitely performed well and certainly earned the deal we gave him 4 years ago IMO. Thank you. IMHO the Redskins fans that don’t like Rak, they expected him to be elite bc he was the 13th pick in the draft and during the 2009 draft most thought he was going top 10, so it was a perceived “Steal” at the time, which turned out to not be true. As you said, he’s good, but not great, which is fine. His replacements in DC have showed some signs of being good but have been less consistent than Rak was and no one was exactly happy with Rak’s inconsistencies while In DC. My stance back in 2015 when we didn’t re-sign him, and it still remains is that it’s not easy to find a top pass rusher who will get near or over double digit sacks every year and that remains true bc the skins haven’t found that guy opposite Kerrigan despite drafting 3 OLBs and signing 2 to try to replace Rak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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