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Jalen Ramsey hopes to ink long-term deal this offseason

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1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

 

The whole story is not a distraction though.  Right guys?  xD

 

That sounds awfully standoffish to me, for a player who wants to be here long-term.  Maybe part of that is just Jalen's aggressive personality and apparent disdain for the media leaching through...but that's where you have to start wondering on a bit of Chicken/Egg with those trade rumours that came out a while ago.  If he's not going to sign here, or sign here on any reasonable deal; if he's going to holdout rather than play out a 5th year option...maybe there's something to moving him while you could still get a king's ransom.  

Edited by Tugboat

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6 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

The whole story is not a distraction though.  Right guys?  xD

 

That sounds awfully standoffish to me, for a player who wants to be here long-term.  Maybe part of that is just Jalen's aggressive personality and apparent disdain for the media leaching through...but that's where you have to start wondering on a bit of Chicken/Egg with those trade rumours that came out a while ago.  If he's not going to sign here, or sign here on any reasonable deal; if he's going to holdout rather than play out a 5th year option...maybe there's something to moving him while you could still get a king's ransom.  

Reasonable deal?

He's a superstar and arguably the best CB in the NFL and is 23/24 years old. Bring the money bags and give him what he deserves.

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2 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Reasonable deal?

He's a superstar and arguably the best CB in the NFL and is 23/24 years old. Bring the money bags and give him what he deserves.

Can you win in this NFL by backing the money truck up to a CB and giving them whatever they want though?  It's an important position for sure, and Jalen is one of the best.  But it's hard for me to really say it's the position you really build a winner around as your highest paid player in the NFL type deal.  Especially if he doesn't even really want to be there, and is at least partially just signing because it's a biggest in the NFL type deal in a State where that money goes a bit further tax-wise.

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3 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

Can you win in this NFL by backing the money truck up to a CB and giving them whatever they want though?  It's an important position for sure, and Jalen is one of the best.  But it's hard for me to really say it's the position you really build a winner around as your highest paid player in the NFL type deal.  Especially if he doesn't even really want to be there, and is at least partially just signing because it's a biggest in the NFL type deal in a State where that money goes a bit further tax-wise.

So instead of paying one a HOF level talent that we drafted that worked out who plays a pretty vital position, we should do what with that money? If we trade him for pick(s), we just sit here and hope to no avail that we find someone exactly like him with one of our top picks which is extremely, extremely unlikely?

I don't get the argument. We have no QB to pay after Bortles cap hit is off the books for the foreseeable future. Ramsey is one of the best players in the league. He can be the face of this franchise for the next decade and lead this team into our next competitive window hopefully.

You don't let that go. Doesn't mean you pay him some ridiculous amount, but you do make him the highest paid at his position and deservedly so and let him know that this is his team, as it should be.

Edited by .Buzz

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1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

So instead of paying one a HOF level talent that we drafted that worked out who plays a pretty vital position, we should do what with that money? If we trade him for pick(s), we just sit here and hope to no avail that we find someone exactly like him with one of our top picks which is extremely, extremely unlikely?

I don't get the argument. We have no QB to pay after Bortles cap hit is off the books for the foreseeable future. Ramsey is one of the best players in the league. He can be the face of this franchise for the next decade and lead this team into our next competitive window hopefully.

You don't let that go. Doesn't mean you pay him some ridiculous amount, but you do make him the highest paid at his position and deservedly so and let him know that this is his team, as it should be.

To piggyback on this, where is your info coming from with saying he doesn't want to be here? If anything, all the evidence leans HEAVILY in the opposite direction going back to the article in the summer of him wanting to finish his career here and building a mansion for his family in the Jacksonville area. Then doubling down on it a couple weeks back, and NOW saying they hope they get it done this off-season with him.

If you want to throw that out the window but then take the one sentence of him saying that if the reports are true from the trade rumors, than maybe that happens instead...I guess ok.

Frustrating even having this conversation. We've dreamed about having the talent of Jalen in this organization for years and now we have him and we talk about moving him or how he could/should be moved. 

 

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2 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

So instead of paying one a HOF level talent that we drafted that worked out who plays a pretty vital position, we should do what with that money? If we trade him for pick(s), we just sit here and hope to no avail that we find someone exactly like him with one of our top picks which is extremely, extremely unlikely?

I don't get the argument. We have no QB to pay after Bortles cap hit is off the books for the foreseeable future. Ramsey is one of the best players in the league. He can be the face of this franchise for the next decade and lead this team into our next competitive window hopefully.

You don't let that go. Doesn't mean you pay him some ridiculous amount, but you do make him the highest paid at his position and deservedly so and let him know that this is his team, as it should be.

The idea of spending whatever it takes to satisfy him just because he's good is reckless though.

If Jalen stays here as our highest paid player and we can't afford to/find a way to build an offense around him in his prime...he's not going to sniff the HOF, regardless of his talent.  Elite CB just isn't the position that wins you games.  It can be part of the solution, but it's not the tipping point.

 

I mean, it would suck losing one of the only real home run picks they've made.  I don't want to push Jalen out the door.  I'd rather keep him if he really wants to be here, and they can do it at a number that makes sense.  But if he's got a foot already halfway out the door, paying him irresponsibly even if he doesn't fully want to be here, just because he's one of the few that's worked out (and they've failed to find a QB worth paying)...is really stumbling into sunk cost fallacy territory.

 

Highest paid CB, i could certainly stomach.  That'd be a reasonable enough number.  Ringing in just a bit over the sort of deal Josh Norman got as a big ticket FA.  But if we start talking about like exceeding Donald/Mack numbers...at some point you've just gotta make a call and know when to walk away.  He's a CB.  An elite one, but a CB nonetheless.

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5 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

To piggyback on this, where is your info coming from with saying he doesn't want to be here? If anything, all the evidence leans HEAVILY in the opposite direction going back to the article in the summer of him wanting to finish his career here and building a mansion for his family in the Jacksonville area. Then doubling down on it a couple weeks back, and NOW saying they hope they get it done this off-season with him.

If you want to throw that out the window but then take the one sentence of him saying that if the reports are true from the trade rumors, than maybe that happens instead...I guess ok.

Frustrating even having this conversation. We've dreamed about having the talent of Jalen in this organization for years and now we have him and we talk about moving him or how he could/should be moved. 

 

The evidence is right there in Jalen's quotes.  He's basically saying, "show me the money, or trade me like the rumours".  That's a really hostile way for a player with two full years of contract potentially remaining after this year (which isn't even over yet) to be opining publicly.

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4 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

The evidence is right there in Jalen's quotes.  He's basically saying, "show me the money, or trade me like the rumours".  That's a really hostile way for a player with two full years of contract potentially remaining after this year (which isn't even over yet) to be opining publicly.

He wants to be locked in at a high money number, deservedly so, after posting an all pro season and continuing his elite play. This is how it is with players of his caliber.

We also know plenty about Jalens personality. You really think he wouldn't be putting this out here publicly as we head towards the offseason? He's a guy who speaks his mind and talks about what he wants to talk about, ala Deion. We've know this for a while. He's also hardly the first player to show he wants to get paid like he deserves well ahead of his contract expiration. Very rarely is someone at this stage of their career and elite superstar level not talking $$/contract alterations well ahead of the final year of their contract.

You pay him and don't look back.

Edited by .Buzz

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37 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

He wants to be locked in at a high money number, deservedly so, after posting an all pro season and continuing his elite play. This is how it is with players of his caliber.

We also know plenty about Jalens personality. You really think he wouldn't be putting this out here publicly as we head towards the offseason? He's a guy who speaks his mind and talks about what he wants to talk about, ala Deion. We've know this for a while. He's also hardly the first player to show he wants to get paid like he deserves well ahead of his contract expiration. Very rarely is someone at this stage of their career and elite superstar level not talking $$/contract alterations well ahead of the final year of their contract.

You pay him and don't look back.

I just don't agree with this whole, "back up the money trucks and don't look back" philosophy.  It's such a spendthrift fanboi mentality.  Backed up by this idea that we should pay a guy whatever he wants, because the rest of the drafting has been less than stellar?

Good management know how to prioritize when and where they spend their biggest money.  They don't just back the trucks up every time they have a Pro Bowl caliber player who wants a megadeal.  Granted, good management also tend to draft and develop more homegrown talent worth paying than our management have (including a QB)...but the point still stands.

 

I know this team looks like they've decided the season is over already.  But it's actually not over.  I don't see any reason whatsoever to start working with Jalen on a new deal right now.  Again, he's potentially under contract for two more full years after this one...without negotiating anything.  There's zero reason to start working on something right now, when there's still 3 more games left, plus an entire offseason before he even enters the penultimate year of his already negotiated rookie deal.  It'd honestly kinda piss me off that he's being that publicly hostile about things this early, wanting to be paid like an elite player and a leader, while playing at a level below what he's capable of on a team that is playing like they don't give a **** anymore.  It's annoying, and not really helping anything to stir the pot like that.  Especially when we very probably will not even have the same current management group in place a few weeks from now.  We're still more than a full year away from even having to put something in place to bypass that 5th year option.  There's tons of time to get something done before it's an issue at all...and yet he's putting out hostile vibes like that in a very public forum, leveraging rumours/threats like it's the 11th hour on negotiations.

Edited by Tugboat

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29 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I just don't agree with this whole, "back up the money trucks and don't look back" philosophy.  It's such a spendthrift fanboi mentality.  Backed up by this idea that we should pay a guy whatever he wants, because the rest of the drafting has been less than stellar?

Good management know how to prioritize when and where they spend their biggest money.  They don't just back the trucks up every time they have a Pro Bowl caliber player who wants a megadeal.  Granted, good management also tend to draft and develop more homegrown talent worth paying than our management have (including a QB)...but the point still stands.

 

I know this team looks like they've decided the season is over already.  But it's actually not over.  I don't see any reason whatsoever to start working with Jalen on a new deal right now.  Again, he's potentially under contract for two more full years after this one...without negotiating anything.  There's zero reason to start working on something right now, when there's still 3 more games left, plus an entire offseason before he even enters the penultimate year of his already negotiated rookie deal.  It'd honestly kinda piss me off that he's being that publicly hostile about things this early, wanting to be paid like an elite player and a leader, while playing at a level below what he's capable of on a team that is playing like they don't give a **** anymore.  It's annoying, and not really helping anything to stir the pot like that.  Especially when we very probably will not even have the same current management group in place a few weeks from now.  We're still more than a full year away from even having to put something in place to bypass that 5th year option.  There's tons of time to get something done before it's an issue at all...and yet he's putting out hostile vibes like that in a very public forum, leveraging rumours/threats like it's the 11th hour on negotiations.

Did he say he wants to talk right this second on a deal? Everything I've read has stated he wants to AFTER the season in the off-season. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Again, please tell me what you want to spend the money on if we don't pay Jalen. We have him, Ngakoue, and Jack as young cornerstones. No one on offense to pay anytime soon but Fournette who we have no idea about yet, and we just made it known that a rookie QB is likely in the fold who will be pennies for the next 4-5 years.

So, instead of paying Jalen, we go and spend in FA or who else are we paying with that $$ we save by letting a possible future HOFer walk? I really am keenly interested. Campbell is old and done soon, Malik is out the door. Dareus is likely getting a restructure and isn't a long, long term guy. We have no one at WR or OL worth paying for the foreseeable future that isn't already being paid. The secondary is all either locked up or young and under contract the next 2-3 years at least. Telvin is locked up. 

So again, we hold onto the $ and don't pay a stud and let him get it from a countless number of teams that would be standing on his doorstep offering him for...what exactly?

Raiders fans are still pissed they didn't pay that to Mack. Donald just got paid Megabucks on a team loaded with talent and a QB that will be making Megabucks in a year or two from now, Gurley is about to get paiddddd, etc.

You don't let super talents walk out the door for no good reason, which it seems to me like you're suggesting. There's no one else that we're letting go of or losing by paying him. 

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7 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Did he say he wants to talk right this second on a deal? Everything I've read has stated he wants to AFTER the season in the off-season. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Again, please tell me what you want to spend the money on if we don't pay Jalen. We have him, Ngakoue, and Jack as young cornerstones. No one on offense to pay anytime soon but Fournette who we have no idea about yet, and we just made it known that a rookie QB is likely in the fold who will be pennies for the next 4-5 years.

So, instead of paying Jalen, we go and spend in FA or who else are we paying with that $$ we save by letting a possible future HOFer walk? I really am keenly interested. Campbell is old and done soon, Malik is out the door. Dareus is likely getting a restructure and isn't a long, long term guy. We have no one at WR or OL worth paying for the foreseeable future that isn't already being paid. The secondary is all either locked up or young and under contract the next 2-3 years at least. Telvin is locked up. 

So again, we hold onto the $ and don't pay a stud and let him get it from a countless number of teams that would be standing on his doorstep offering him for...what exactly?

Raiders fans are still pissed they didn't pay that to Mack. Donald just got paid Megabucks on a team loaded with talent and a QB that will be making Megabucks in a year or two from now, Gurley is about to get paiddddd, etc.

You don't let super talents walk out the door for no good reason, which it seems to me like you're suggesting. There's no one else that we're letting go of or losing by paying him. 

Not to mention I'm not even sure where he said he expects or needs to get Donald money...although that's usually how it goes. Elite players top elite players previous contracts, especially at vital positions. Obviously pass rusher is more important than CB, but there's an argument to be made that a #1 shutdown CB is the next most important thing on a defense.

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11 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Did he say he wants to talk right this second on a deal? Everything I've read has stated he wants to AFTER the season in the off-season. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Again, please tell me what you want to spend the money on if we don't pay Jalen. We have him, Ngakoue, and Jack as young cornerstones. No one on offense to pay anytime soon but Fournette who we have no idea about yet, and we just made it known that a rookie QB is likely in the fold who will be pennies for the next 4-5 years.

So, instead of paying Jalen, we go and spend in FA or who else are we paying with that $$ we save by letting a possible future HOFer walk? I really am keenly interested. Campbell is old and done soon, Malik is out the door. Dareus is likely getting a restructure and isn't a long, long term guy. We have no one at WR or OL worth paying for the foreseeable future that isn't already being paid. The secondary is all either locked up or young and under contract the next 2-3 years at least. Telvin is locked up. 

So again, we hold onto the $ and don't pay a stud and let him get it from a countless number of teams that would be standing on his doorstep offering him for...what exactly?

Raiders fans are still pissed they didn't pay that to Mack. Donald just got paid Megabucks on a team loaded with talent and a QB that will be making Megabucks in a year or two from now, Gurley is about to get paiddddd, etc.

You don't let super talents walk out the door for no good reason, which it seems to me like you're suggesting. There's no one else that we're letting go of or losing by paying him. 

Just save the money, roll it over or whatever, and retool (hopefully around a good young QB) if there's nothing you deem worthy of it immediately.  Nobody is saying you have to spend all that money right away.  Heck, they didn't seem to think it was important to spend all their cap space this year to get viable alternatives in place for Bortles or anything.  If you don't need to spend in a year like this should have been, you certainly don't need to spend in future years where the defense is probably going to start falling apart anyway (barring some great drafting of replacements for critical players).  1 Elite QB isn't going to move the needle on that if the rest of the unit falls off significantly.

The whole point would be specifically to NOT just let Jalen walk out the door for nothing.  You get something for him while you can, rather than sitting there in 2020 unable to agree on a deal that makes sense, with Jalen holding out on his 5th year option, and then essentially forcing a trade at absolutely minimum value, or straight up walking out the door as a Free Agent.  Or even just sitting there at camp in 2019 with Jalen running his mouth about how he doesn't have a new contract yet and maybe they should just trade him, yadda yadda, ramped up from what he's already doing to stoke the fires of that rumour mill.  You seem to be convinced that Jalen is eager to sign here.  Maybe that's the case, and that'd be great...but there's also been plenty of smoke to the contrary.  And that contrary case is where i'm saying, maybe you explore other options with Jalen than just throwing money at him until he begrudgingly agrees to stay.

 

I just hate this notion that because they haven't drafted anyone else worth paying, they might as well just recklessly throw money at Jalen in the meantime because he's been good and is obnoxious and loud about it.  It's unsound reasoning.

Edited by Tugboat

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4 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Not to mention I'm not even sure where he said he expects or needs to get Donald money...although that's usually how it goes. Elite players top elite players previous contracts, especially at vital positions. Obviously pass rusher is more important than CB, but there's an argument to be made that a #1 shutdown CB is the next most important thing on a defense.

We don't know what he's going to want, but yeah...i think it's a reasonable assumption that he's going to want one of those deals that tops the last "highest paid" type deal.  If he doesn't ask for that type of money, great...sign the guy up long-term and don't look back.  I'm just saying, it's a reasonable possibility that he will be asking for that sort of deal, and if that's the situation we're headed toward...in my opinion, it isn't altogether outrageous to explore moving him while he still has premium value.  Rather than losing him for absolutely nothing, or an absolutely pathetic return if/when it results in a holdout/toxic contract negotiation stalemate.

 

I'm not saying it's a guarantee that he'll need to be moved.  Just that there are plausible situations where it might make more sense to me than this notion of backing up the money trucks and let him rob you blind for whatever he wants, and don't look back.

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