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Karnage84

Should the Lions trade Stafford?

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17 hours ago, SimsZilla said:

no..they shouldn't trade him. besides it being incredibly stupid to trade away probably your best or at worst top 3 player on your team, cap wise, it's suicide. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2018/11/13/detroit-lions-matthew-stafford-2019-beyond/1987149002/

"

Let’s make this clear right now:

The Detroit Lions are not trading Matthew Stafford. They’re not cutting Matthew Stafford. They’re not benching Matthew Stafford.

In fact, they’re not doing anything with Matthew Stafford but playing him at quarterback for the next few years....."

 

^^ this article sums up a lot of it

 

You're probably not wrong in a practical sense. It's not even a matter of will they or won't they but should the Lions trade Stafford? If they could do it financially, would they be a better team with or without him over the next 3+ years? I think that Stafford is a great QB and is a top 10-15 franchise level QB. However, he is 30 years old and the team is at least a year away from having the pieces of a solid team on both sides of the ball. There are teams that are really a QB away from being contenders who could be in the market.

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1 hour ago, Lionized said:

I’m down with Jake Rudock or Matt Cassel for a year. 

There are other guys who would be available in FA that could fill in for the year. Jacoby Brissett will be a FA in 2020. There's familiarity with Patricia from his days in NE if they wanted to go that route.

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5 hours ago, GetDownandDirty said:

Intriguing thought.... Dangle Stafford Trade in front of Jerry Jones. I would be interested in seeing how much Jerry wants Stafford. He has made crazy trades when he has a chance to get a player he covets. He would totally want a shot at Stafford. Maybe worth a look see. 

I don't think that Stafford would be viewed as a significant upgrade over Prescott. They're both in the same ballpark and the argument could be made that Prescott would be viewed as more valuable. He still has a year on his rookie deal (cheaper), is younger, etc. I think Jerry would make a move for a big-time defensive player or another WR to pair with Cooper before trying to trade for Stafford.

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1 hour ago, Rockcity2 said:

Why do you have to take a first round qb this year? Ya sure we would suck but not like we have the team to do something next year imo.

I think trading him will help in the long run.. forces you to build other areas of your team.. say you trade him but can't find a qb.. then you put more into your run game and D. Then when you do get that qb he won't be lionized.. 

 

I do agree - I don't think that we'd HAVE to take a QB this year, especially if it's a poorer class. If we were to add to our defense (maybe an Ed Oliver/Josh Allen combo) in the draft along with some FA's, add young talent to the OL, another solid RB... you'd have a strong foundation for a QB to walk into and build upon.

The defense has some holes - areas that were weaknesses are just that (DL/pass-rush) and areas we expected to be a strength aren't quite there (secondary). The whole right side of the OL is a problem moving forward and needs to be shored up. Our WR corp has taken a huge hit with Tate's trade. Marvin's absence makes that abundantly clear. Blount has lost a step and should not be counted on for next year - so we'll need to add another true RB to the mix. KJ has been a great pick but will need some help in the run game.

Quinn has a lot of work ahead of him with or without Stafford on the roster.

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12 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I don't think that Stafford would be viewed as a significant upgrade over Prescott. They're both in the same ballpark and the argument could be made that Prescott would be viewed as more valuable. He still has a year on his rookie deal (cheaper), is younger, etc. I think Jerry would make a move for a big-time defensive player or another WR to pair with Cooper before trying to trade for Stafford.

I agree with what your saying about what jones would do. Just for the discussion sake Stafford is framiliar with Scott linehans offense. 

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17 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

There are other guys who would be available in FA that could fill in for the year. Jacoby Brissett will be a FA in 2020. There's familiarity with Patricia from his days in NE if they wanted to go that route.

Yeah there are definitely plenty of interm quarterbacks to look at. 

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1 minute ago, Lionized said:

I agree with what your saying about what jones would do. Just for the discussion sake Stafford is framiliar with Scott linehans offense. 

That's true - but Linehan is also gone for a reason. I don't think a Stafford/Linehan reunion would be one to cherish lol Crazier things have happened though, so who really knows.

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21 hours ago, SimsZilla said:

no..they shouldn't trade him. besides it being incredibly stupid to trade away probably your best or at worst top 3 player on your team, cap wise, it's suicide. 

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2018/11/13/detroit-lions-matthew-stafford-2019-beyond/1987149002/

"

Let’s make this clear right now:

The Detroit Lions are not trading Matthew Stafford. They’re not cutting Matthew Stafford. They’re not benching Matthew Stafford.

In fact, they’re not doing anything with Matthew Stafford but playing him at quarterback for the next few years....."

 

^^ this article sums up a lot of it

 

I mean the article is pointing out the accelerated money is going to hurt the Lions, blah blah blah, everything we pointed out here.

The comparison to Joe Flacco isn't real because A, Joe Flacco won a super bowl so you given him a chance to play things out with the front office that won the super bowl and signed/drafted him. B, Lions actually have the cap space to take the hit. * They'll likely screw it up and sign some average players to big contracts this year in an attempt to take the "next step." which undoubtedly they'll be selling a week after the season or as soon as the playoff elimination happens. 

The Lions haven't even won a playoff game with this guy. This year or next, with or without Stafford there isn't a future so the money coming on the cap for 2019 doesn't matter to ANYONE except the GM running the team and the Fords. Trading Stafford and firing the Staff admits full rebuild for 2019 and don't expect much till 2020 rolls. It's also way to pro-active for the Fords who give time for failure in the front office. They'll fire a coach again and make him a scape-goat before Quinn/PattyPencilHead get canned. 

As is now. No one is expecting anything till Stafford is gone. (I think).

Some will have faith they'll actually spend money wisely...and collect talent around Stafford, I would, if it was a different Staff, this current regime is very... MEH. They've openly lied to fans with the 9-7 comment. I think the staffs best signing ever has been Marvin Jones? An that type of player isn't really moving the needle between playoff/non playoff team. 

*You're right, ultimately, not because they shouldn't do it. They definitely should, but they're in this for profit too and it's just stupid for them as a business to eat up Staffords money when they can just keep him and make the same. If someone knows they'll suck for two year anyways(most likley imo) They'll make more money/hype with Stafford on the team vs paying to cut/trade him. 

Don't let Dave Birkett and the rest of the Lions propaganda machine an slappy's actually make you change you're mind about what you are seeing with Stafford/the rest of the team. 

Edited by SimbaWho

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2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

I do agree - I don't think that we'd HAVE to take a QB this year, especially if it's a poorer class. If we were to add to our defense (maybe an Ed Oliver/Josh Allen combo) in the draft along with some FA's, add young talent to the OL, another solid RB... you'd have a strong foundation for a QB to walk into and build upon.

The defense has some holes - areas that were weaknesses are just that (DL/pass-rush) and areas we expected to be a strength aren't quite there (secondary). The whole right side of the OL is a problem moving forward and needs to be shored up. Our WR corp has taken a huge hit with Tate's trade. Marvin's absence makes that abundantly clear. Blount has lost a step and should not be counted on for next year - so we'll need to add another true RB to the mix. KJ has been a great pick but will need some help in the run game.

Quinn has a lot of work ahead of him with or without Stafford on the roster.

Everyone has his own way of doing it. I know the old adage build the lines but imo in todays nfl you need that secondary. Another lockdown corner could do this team wonders imo

I'm just really wanting bpa if you wanna fill holes do it in fa or middle rds..

Even if we were to get two 1st everyone would just talk pass rushers and I'm sure Quinn will bite while passing on better players. . Liked his first round pick this year. But heard he was trying to trade for penny so that could of went pretty bad

A lot of this could be for selfish reasons to keep your own job. . Make excuses trade away the qb so you can say you want your own guy...

Idk rambling but to get out of these average seasons you gotta know when to pull the plug/trigger when the value there with great draft class would be ideal.. but weird thing imo it's this year... So I'm definitely exploring it.. not praising like mp and Quinn are doing.. these two are already killing me...

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On 11/19/2018 at 4:24 PM, Karnage84 said:

This isn't a hard and fast strategy but this is one way that things could boil down if they decided to go this route

- Trade Stafford

- Restructure Slay

- Extend Marvin Jones (we need to keep our reliable WR's and build on that)

- Extend Snacks (he's been a solid addition and someone to build on)

-  Cut Wagner, Lang and Quin

This would leave us with $70M in cap space (according to Over The Cap)

Using the Jay Cutler trade as a blueprint, a trade for Stafford would likely look like: 2019 1st, 2019 3rd, 2020 1st + a player

What is this dumbness

Guess what you'd need all that $70 mil plus another $10 mil to afford the dead cap hit you'd take in 2019 if you traded Stafford

Why are you people doing a three page thread talking about this like it could happen. I thought people here were a little smarter than that

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We should not trade Stafford even if it was economically feasible. How about we get rid of the players that are bad instead of the ones that are good? We've been without a good QB for decades until he came around. We have a roster bloated with under-performers that are overpaid. Stafford is marginally overpaid, but he's the furthest thing from being a negative for our franchise.

I understand that the current popular successful model calls for elite QB play on a rookie contract, but that's not exactly a blueprint you can copy. Let's get some protection up front on offense and some pressure up front on defense. That should be our model.

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18 hours ago, Rockcity2 said:

Why do you have to take a first round qb this year? Ya sure we would suck but not like we have the team to do something next year imo.

I think trading him will help in the long run.. forces you to build other areas of your team.. say you trade him but can't find a qb.. then you put more into your run game and D. Then when you do get that qb he won't be lionized.. 

 

If you dont go with a rookie, you are going to pay some bum $20M to start a year for you, probably Sam Bradford.  You still cant spend the money you need to to completely rebuild your lines.  This is a situation where you don't use a half measure.  If you trade Stafford you tear the whole thing down and rebuild from the inside out.

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To be a little nicer about it, I'll say this: although Stafford will be the Lions qb in 2019 without any doubt, I would consider trading him after that for only a $40 mil dead cap hit. $80m is completely out of the question but $40m could be doable.

Only problem is this. If after 2019 the Lions are in a place to trade him, that means they're coming off another bad season. That means that Quinn is a failure and him and his handpicked guy Patricia need to be out. So then we're starting all over (if Martha and Sheila could even be convinced to do it that way, which is a stretch). Oh and starting a rebuild with a $40m anchor around their neck.

Sigh. Maybe Dan Gilbert can convince the ladies to sell.

Edited by Superduperman

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1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said:

If you dont go with a rookie, you are going to pay some bum $20M to start a year for you, probably Sam Bradford.  You still cant spend the money you need to to completely rebuild your lines.  This is a situation where you don't use a half measure.  If you trade Stafford you tear the whole thing down and rebuild from the inside out.

I sure the hell wouldn't pay no fa qb that much and not drafting one in the first rd or anything.. I'd work on everything but until I really liked a guy myself. Not sure who the fa are to say who'd I take.look in the middle rds of the draft.. get creative with your two firsts try to trade for capital next year.. 

You just face life with a crap qb for a few years.. to behonest I wouldn't even want be competitive next just get **** straightened out

Trust me I know their not gonna do it they will wait to long..

I think the giants would bite and I'll take their first atm..even if we did have to throw some more meat on it..

Maybe if it helps you when we use that 1st on a guy you can pretend he's getting paid what we're still paying stafford...

 

 

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17 hours ago, Superduperman said:

What is this dumbness

Guess what you'd need all that $70 mil plus another $10 mil to afford the dead cap hit you'd take in 2019 if you traded Stafford

Why are you people doing a three page thread talking about this like it could happen. I thought people here were a little smarter than that

1. Because this is a football forum.

2. We discuss what if’s in a football forum.

3. Unlike you, most of us don’t have a crystal ball in front of us.

Nothing in the rules states you have to post in a thread you disagree with. 

Cap hits are just that. Cap hits. Sometimes it’s better to take the hit, rebuild the team, and get the player and the hit off the books. 

Suggesting something won’t happen, regardless how unlikely, is short sighted.

The Lions have never won anything with Stafford at QB. We can debate what ifs, all day long. We can talk about how Stafford is only one player etc.

Bottom line is the Detroit Lions haven’t accomplished a darned thing since the 50’s.

Given the QB, the roster and the executive I don’t expect any change.

The Lions won’t win with Stafford under centre. He’s a good QB but he lacks the ability to carry the team on his shoulders. So you can continue with the problem or identify it, list solutions and pick one. Moving on from QB’s is never easy, the team simply has to determine which is the best course of action. I suspect like all things Lion, they will choose wrong. I suspect the contract will play out. The Lions will draft another QB and the clock resets. 

 

 

Edited by diehardlionfan

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