How good is Jared Goff?

[btfd16]

I pulled up all those damn Brady v Goff beginning of career stats and even said "No one is comparing him to when he was the GOAT or even what he is now." and couldn't even warrant a Tyler response. Damn

[rfournier103]

How good is Jared Goff?  

Good enough to get to the Super Bowl. 

 

And he makes me nervous. 

[tyler735]

Just now, btfd16 said:

I pulled up all those damn Brady v Goff beginning of career stats and even said "No one is comparing him to when he was the GOAT or even what he is now." and couldn't even warrant a Tyler response. Damn

I thought that was addressed by someone else stating that it is an apples to oranges comparison to directly compare their stats in what was a much different NFL when Brady started compared to recent years. This is common knowledge, I mean you could look at league wide QB Ratings from the early 00's compared to recent years, or the substantial increase in bulk stats by QB's in recent years to deduce that was a bad comparison. Rule changes broseph. 

Anyhow, Brady by the end of his 3rd year was a 2 time Super Bowl MVP, and had a season leading the NFL in touchdown passes in 2002 (With wayyyy less talent to throw to than Goff has had). If the comparison to Brady is based off being a winner (which is how this started)...Shouldn't Goff have..you know..Won something before making that comparison? Maybe the Rams surprise and pull out a win in the Super Bowl which would make this comparison a bit less egregious, but as of now, it is still laughable 

[btfd16]

4 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I thought that was addressed by someone else stating that it is an apples to oranges comparison to directly compare their stats in what was a much different NFL when Brady started compared to recent years. This is common knowledge, I mean you could look at league wide QB Ratings from the early 00's compared to recent years, or the substantial increase in bulk stats by QB's in recent years to deduce that was a bad comparison. Rule changes broseph. 

Anyhow, Brady by the end of his 3rd year was a 2 time Super Bowl MVP, and had a season leading the NFL in touchdown passes in 2002 (With wayyyy less talent to throw to than Goff has had). If the comparison to Brady is based off being a winner (which is how this started)...Shouldn't Goff have..you know..Won something before making that comparison? Maybe the Rams surprise and pull out a win in the Super Bowl which would make this comparison a bit less egregious, but as of now, it is still laughable 

I didnt use ratings. Kurt Warner had almost 5000 yards and 36 TDs in 2001.... next

 

The only point I'm trying to prove is it's not that egregious to compare the first 3 years.. Not that he will be the GOAT

 

Brady had 2 in 3 years starting. Not his first 3 years.

[tyler735]

9 minutes ago, btfd16 said:

I didnt use ratings. Kurt Warner had almost 5000 yards and 36 TDs in 2001.... next

So no context then? So you deny that there was a significant difference in league wide QB numbers from early 00's compared to now?? Perfect I figured that would be the extent of your weak argument here. Did Kurt Warner throw to Holt, Bruce, Hakim, and Faulk? Next.

Quote

 

The only point I'm trying to prove is it's not that egregious to compare the first 3 years.. Not that he will be the GOAT

2 Super Bowl MVP's vs 0 Super Bowl wins at this point. By this logic Kaepernick was a good comparison to Brady. He won some games early on, so it must be a fitting comparison.

Quote

 

Brady had 2 in 3 years starting. Not his first 3 years.

My bad forgot to put "starting", really the same outcome though after both of their 3rd years starting, which was the point.

[btfd16]

11 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

So no context then? So you deny that there was a significant difference in league wide QB numbers from early 00's compared to now?? Perfect I figured that would be the extent of your weak argument here. Did Kurt Warner throw to Holt, Bruce, Hakim, and Faulk? Next.

2 Super Bowl MVP's vs 0 Super Bowl wins at this point. By this logic Kaepernick was a good comparison to Brady. He won some games early on, so it must be a fitting comparison.

My bad forgot to put starting, really the same outcome though after both of their 3rd years starting, which was the point.

You are being ignorant. I acknowledged there was a difference in my first post. What would you like me to compare? Stats are literally all you can compare. People compare Brady to Montana every year.

Kaep?! KAEP?! *Soulja Boy voice* Two entirely different players. So you want to talk about apples to oranges. His PFR stats are no where compared to either of them

You count 7 games as a year starting? To each their own.

[tyler735]

26 minutes ago, btfd16 said:

You are being ignorant. I acknowledged there was a difference in my first post. What would you like me to compare? Stats are literally all you can compare. People compare Brady to Montana every year.

You downplayed the difference as "slight" when tons of QBs are averaging 4,000 plus yards and breaking 100+ QB Rating is hardly anything of note in today's NFL I'd say that is very substantial difference from the years you are comparing. Sure Brady and Montana get compared and Era they played in is always a heavily discussed part of that as it is a huge factor in these debates.

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Kaep?! KAEP?! *Soulja Boy voice* Two entirely different players. So you want to talk about apples to oranges. His PFR stats are no where compared to either of them

Yeah doesn't that sound ridiculous? That's about as crazy as comparing Goff to Brady. 

Quote

You count 7 games as a year starting? To each their own.

Sure we can ignore Goff's 0-7 start if it helps your "Goff is a winner like Brady" narrative 

[btfd16]

2 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

You downplayed the difference as "slight" when tons of QBs are averaging 4,000 plus yards and breaking 100+ QB Rating is hardly anything of note in today's NFL I'd say that is very substantial difference from the years you are comparing. Sure Brady and Montana get compared and Era they played in is always a heavily discussed part of that as it is a huge factor in these debates.

Yeah doesn't that sound ridiculous? That's about as crazy as comparing Goff to Brady. 

Sure we can ignore Goff's 0-7 start if it helps your "Goff is a winner like Brady" narrative 

Okay first point I think we are on the same page arguing the same thing.

Still hard disagree here as Kaep's STATS aren't comparable.

Again, we are arguing stats and player as a comparison. Not winning. Give TB Jeff Fisher and lets see what happens. If you want to go winner, JG has a better winning record with McVay than TB did his first two years starting

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, btfd16 said:

Okay first point I think we are on the same page arguing the same thing.

Still hard disagree here as Kaep's STATS aren't comparable.

Again, we are arguing stats and player as a comparison. Not winning. Give TB Jeff Fisher and lets see what happens. If you want to go winner, JG has a better winning record with McVay than TB did his first two years starting

 

Yeah we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I think it's a silly comparison at this juncture and none of this back and forth is making me rethink my stance. If you wanna think you have a young Tom Brady behind center you do you man.

[Non-Issue]

On 1/25/2019 at 5:28 PM, tyler735 said:

So no context then? So you deny that there was a significant difference in league wide QB numbers from early 00's compared to now?? Perfect I figured that would be the extent of your weak argument here. Did Kurt Warner throw to Holt, Bruce, Hakim, and Faulk? Next.

2 Super Bowl MVP's vs 0 Super Bowl wins at this point. By this logic Kaepernick was a good comparison to Brady. He won some games early on, so it must be a fitting comparison.

My bad forgot to put "starting", really the same outcome though after both of their 3rd years starting, which was the point.

So, in your opinion, what QBs compare favorably to Brady when just considering their first 3 seasons?

[Non-Issue]

On 1/25/2019 at 8:06 PM, tyler735 said:

 

Yeah we are going to have to agree to disagree here. I think it's a silly comparison at this juncture and none of this back and forth is making me rethink my stance. If you wanna think you have a young Tom Brady behind center you do you man.

See... this is the weird reaction you get when you mention a young player and an all time great. Like if I were to say (and this is just for the sake of the discussion), "Goff and Brady have a similar release" I would inevitably get that guy who is like, "Whoa man! Slow down! Goff is nowhere near as good as Brady. Jesus, man! Pump the brakes!!! You gonna put him in Canton tomorrow or what?!?!?"

"I was just comparing their release."

"Whoa, whoa, whoa! HoFer Goff is clearly the GOAT now, huh?"

[Non-Issue]

I mean, there are a ton of great QBs that didn't win 2 SBs in their first 3 seasons. Maybe it would be more logical to compare Goffs first 3 seasons to those guys? Drew Brees? Peyton Manning? Joe Montana? I guess those comparisons are much more plausible because they didn't win 2 SBs.

I just dont get the resistance to comparing todays young QBs to greats when they were young. 

[43M]

12 minutes ago, Non-Issue said:

I mean, there are a ton of great QBs that didn't win 2 SBs in their first 3 seasons. Maybe it would be more logical to compare Goffs first 3 seasons to those guys? Drew Brees? Peyton Manning? Joe Montana? I guess those comparisons are much more plausible because they didn't win 2 SBs.

I just dont get the resistance to comparing todays young QBs to greats when they were young. 

Firstly, I think many people have a hard time realizing that just because you are comparing a young QB to a great former QB doesnt mean you are comparing their overall careers.    People feel like its overrating young QBs when they are compared to all time greats because the young QBs are just getting started and we dont really know where their careers are going next.

Secondly, I dont see why a comparison is really necessary.    Cant Goff just be his own player and write his own story?   Its obviously off to a good start.

Third, as always, its hard to compare his success, either team or statistical, to past greats, because there are so many variables that factored in, including overall team quality and league rule changes that affected the passing game.

In the spirit of fun, there are several QBs you could compare to Goff's current trajectory....Brady, Manning, Marino....but they are very loose comparisons and its completely unknown where Goff will go from here.

Bottom line, he is a very good QB RIGHT NOW.   Dont think a comparison to a HOF QB is needed.

[jrry32]

4 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Firstly, I think many people have a hard time realizing that just because you are comparing a young QB to a great former QB doesnt mean you are comparing their overall careers.    People feel like its overrating young QBs when they are compared to all time greats because the young QBs are just getting started and we dont really know where their careers are going next.

Secondly, I dont see why a comparison is really necessary.    Cant Goff just be his own player and write his own story?   Its obviously off to a good start.

Third, as always, its hard to compare his success, either team or statistical, to past greats, because there are so many variables that factored in, including overall team quality and league rule changes that affected the passing game.

In the spirit of fun, there are several QBs you could compare to Goff's current trajectory....Brady, Manning, Marino....but they are very loose comparisons and its completely unknown where Goff will go from here.

Bottom line, he is a very good QB RIGHT NOW.   Dont think a comparison to a HOF QB is needed.

I agree. However, I think it's relevant to bring up their early careers when people say that Goff won't ever be that good. The point isn't to say that he will be. It's to say that nobody has any clue. None of us could have looked at Brees, Brady, Manning, etc. at Goff's age and said they would be what they became. It's not like Goff lacks an attribute that would prevent him from being a HOFer. We just have to wait and see if he can reach that level of greatness. Nobody can say at this point in his career. Obviously, outperforming Brady and winning the Super Bowl after outperforming Brees in the NFCCG would be a nice step in that direction.

[Non-Issue]

12 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Firstly, I think many people have a hard time realizing that just because you are comparing a young QB to a great former QB doesnt mean you are comparing their overall careers.    People feel like its overrating young QBs when they are compared to all time greats because the young QBs are just getting started and we dont really know where their careers are going next.

Secondly, I dont see why a comparison is really necessary.    Cant Goff just be his own player and write his own story?   Its obviously off to a good start.

Third, as always, its hard to compare his success, either team or statistical, to past greats, because there are so many variables that factored in, including overall team quality and league rule changes that affected the passing game.

In the spirit of fun, there are several QBs you could compare to Goff's current trajectory....Brady, Manning, Marino....but they are very loose comparisons and its completely unknown where Goff will go from here.

Bottom line, he is a very good QB RIGHT NOW.   Dont think a comparison to a HOF QB is needed.

I usually see these types of comparisons when someone is bagging on a player. Like a "Goff sucks" comment with a "Well, it's not like Brady was lighting up the world in his first 3 seasons" kind of thing in response. But I totally agree with your whole post.