Jump to content

Ok so why does the Rams defense suck?


Apparition

Recommended Posts

Just now, Jakuvious said:

Like Tyreek Hill ;)

Nah. More like Michael Thomas and Davante Adams. What I think you'd see against the Chiefs is Talib vs. Kelce, Peters vs. Watkins, NRC vs. Conley, and Shields + Joyner/Johnson vs. Hill. Hill would still be a problem, but I imagine that Wade would allow Joyner and Johnson a lot less freedom the next time around when helping on Hill.

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I disagree. Talib was quite a dominant cover CB in 2015 and 2016. He took a slight step back in 2017, but he was still damn good. And he was off to a great start in 2018 before his injury. He's more of a playmaker when playing off, but he can smother WRs while pressing. And he's the best answer to the woes we have been having. He won't fix it all, but getting Troy Hill off the field for a true #1 CB will make a huge difference for this defense. Talib is exactly the sort of guy we need to combat the big WRs who have been giving us problems.

To provide support for what I just said here:

That covers 2015 through 2017. This covers 2018:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I disagree. Talib was quite a dominant cover CB in 2015 and 2016. He took a slight step back in 2017, but he was still damn good. And he was off to a great start in 2018 before his injury. He's more of a playmaker when playing off, but he can smother WRs while pressing. And he's the best answer to the woes we have been having. He won't fix it all, but getting Troy Hill off the field for a true #1 CB will make a huge difference for this defense. Talib is exactly the sort of guy we need to combat the big WRs who have been giving us problems.

The guy I quoted said, "Talib is as close as a shutdown corner as you can get in the NFL today". That is just factually not true in 2018.

You're basically just looking at his size and saying that he's good at press coverage when again, that isn't true. He isn't comfortable in trail technique on anything other than deep routes because he can't see the QB. That's his bread and butter - seeing the QB. He uses his length on contested balls which, when he is in position, he is as good as anyone in the league at disrupting the catch.

I am not saying he's not an upgrade on what you have, obviously. I disputed a guy trying to claim he's a shutdown CB compared with other DB's right now which isn't true.

Oh, and whilst we're on the 2015/16 Broncos - your pass rush isn't anything close to that team I am afraid. Talib's style of play was such a good match for that Broncos pass rush of Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware, Malik Jackson and Derek Wolfe. I mean, Aaron Donald is arguably the best player in the league but outside of that, it's an underwhelming group especially in comparison to that Broncos team (I would argue that both Shaq Barrett and Shane Ray, reserves from the 15/16 Broncos, would be fighting for a starting spot on that Rams team right now).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Opposing teams put together aggressive gameplans against good offenses.  The Chiefs should have ran more when they had the chance for instance.  

Then there's the team psychology when one unit is playing so well that the other half slacks off.  It's happens every year.  Shouldn't surprise anybody.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Umm ... No.

Talib isn't that guy. Talib is a risk taking CB, just like Peters. They both prefer to play off coverage with their eyes on the QB rather than playing press man coverage. Talib could do this in Denver because the actual shutdown corner, Chris Harris Jr, was on the other side.

Talib is a game changing CB. He's a great matchup vs long WR's/TE's because of his arm length. However, he is far, far from a shutdown CB.

Ill just say that I believe Talib and Peters together compliment each other well. We saw a glimpse of that for 2 and a half games. I think people forget how good the Rams defense was in particular the secondary before Talib got hurt. Like have people forgotten the Rams defense was so dominant Week 2 against the Cards that they didnt even allow them to cross the 50 until the second to last play of the game. I know people are going to say well thats the Cards. I dont care what team it is, no team in the NFL can claim to have done that this season. You do realize that the Rams held Cooper to 1 catch for 9yds. The same Cooper that just went for 8 catches 180yds and 2 tds against what supposed to be the best safety tandem in the NFL in Swearinger and Clinton-Dix not to mention Norman is in the secondary as well. On top of that he did that Cooper was held in check with Carr as his QB and went off with Dak. Many people will tell you that Carr is a much much better QB than Dak. The same defense that held the Allen to 4 catches for 44yds and held the Chargers offense to 23pts despite both Peters and Talib not even playing a full game. So less than 4 quarters for both guys they was still able to hold Allen in check and the Chargers to 23pts.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, stl4life07 said:

Ill just say that I believe Talib and Peters together compliment each other well. We saw a glimpse of that for 2 and a half games. I think people forget how good the Rams defense was in particular the secondary before Talib got hurt. Like have people forgotten the Rams defense was so dominant Week 2 against the Cards that they didnt even allow them to cross the 50 until the second to last play of the game. I know people are going to say well thats the Cards. I dont care what team it is, no team in the NFL can claim to have done that this season. You do realize that the Rams held Cooper to 1 catch for 9yds. The same Cooper that just went for 8 catches 180yds and 2 tds against what supposed to be the best safety tandem in the NFL in Swearinger and Clinton-Dix not to mention Norman is in the secondary as well. On top of that he did that Cooper was held in check with Carr as his QB and went off with Dak. Many people will tell you that Carr is a much much better QB than Dak. The same defense that held the Allen to 4 catches for 44yds and held the Chargers offense to 23pts despite both Peters and Talib not even playing a full game. So less than 4 quarters for both guys they was still able to hold Allen in check and the Chargers to 23pts.

Come on man, there's just too much stretching here. If you think Talib and Peters work well together, that's fine. I personally disagree but it's a game of opinions.

People will say, "its the Cards" because I am afraid it was just the Cards. The Broncos held them to 260 yards total Offense and forced 5 turnovers, and the Broncos unit is above average at very best.

The Chargers held Cooper to 1 catch for 10 yards. Dolphins held Cooper to 2 catches for 17 yards. Falcons held Cooper to 3 catches for 36 yards. Are we going to crown their secondary tandems? It's just way too much of a stretch to say, "well in week 2 we held Cooper, whilst playing for a different team, to 1 catch therefore we must be amazing because he shredded the Redskins 10 weeks later and they are good". There is not enough data (direct or indirect) to say that with any form of accuracy.

We could go into detail about how you aren't putting any context into how these yards came about or how Defense's stopped certain players.

I actually think Talib will have a really good impact on the team, and his attitude on the field will have a good influence I believe. But he's not a shutdown corner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

Come on man, there's just too much stretching here. If you think Talib and Peters work well together, that's fine. I personally disagree but it's a game of opinions.

People will say, "its the Cards" because I am afraid it was just the Cards. The Broncos held them to 260 yards total Offense and forced 5 turnovers, and the Broncos unit is above average at very best.

The Chargers held Cooper to 1 catch for 10 yards. Dolphins held Cooper to 2 catches for 17 yards. Falcons held Cooper to 3 catches for 36 yards. Are we going to crown their secondary tandems? It's just way too much of a stretch to say, "well in week 2 we held Cooper, whilst playing for a different team, to 1 catch therefore we must be amazing because he shredded the Redskins 10 weeks later and they are good". There is not enough data (direct or indirect) to say that with any form of accuracy.

We could go into detail about how you aren't putting any context into how these yards came about or how Defense's stopped certain players.

I actually think Talib will have a really good impact on the team, and his attitude on the field will have a good influence I believe. But he's not a shutdown corner.

I think you are underselling the Rams defense didnt allow the Cards to cross midfield until the second to last play of the game. Like we dont ever see that in a professional football game. I only saw that in college when my Tigers got dominated my Bama in the National Championship Game. LSU crossed midfield once the entire game. So again I dont care what team it is, you just dont see a team get dominated to the point where they dont even cross midfield until the last two plays of the game. But I get it, we saw two and half games with Talib and 8 games without him. So its easy to say well the reason the Rams looked so good the first few weeks is because they played the Raiders and Cards. I get both those teams arent great but at least people need to recognize the impact Talib had out there. I know you do in general. Its been rough though without him because Hill is starting in his place and thats a HUGE drop off. So I love my chances with Talib covering Thomas, Adams, Diggs, etc... Talib should be back Week 13 at Detroit. He is going to be on Galladay. Week 14 at Chicago he is going to be on ARob. Week 14 against the Eagles he is going to be on Alshon. I dont know how long it will take for him to knock off the rust or get things back going but Im confident in those matchups with Talib back in the lineup and again he should make Peters job easier and watch Peters get back to doing what he do best and thats making plays knowing that he dont have to do everything like I believe he was trying to do without Talib.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@lomaxgrUK You won’t get anywhere. He’ll highlight Amari Cooper because it’s convenient. No mentions of how Jared Cook did in that game.

3 hours ago, stl4life07 said:

You do realize that the Rams held Cooper to 1 catch for 9yds. The same Cooper that just went for 8 catches 180yds and 2 tds against what supposed to be the best safety tandem in the NFL in Swearinger and Clinton-Dix not to mention Norman is in the secondary as well. On top of that he did that Cooper was held in check with Carr as his QB and went off with Dak. Many people will tell you that Carr is a much much better QB than Dak. The same defense that held the Allen to 4 catches for 44yds and held the Chargers offense to 23pts despite both Peters and Talib not even playing a full game. So less than 4 quarters for both guys they was still able to hold Allen in check and the Chargers to 23pts.

Textbook cherry picking.

How’d they do against Diggs, Thielen, Adams, or Thomas?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Chargers still averaged nearly 7 yards per a play against the Ram and were 7-13 on third down. They moved the ball on the Rams, so I wouldn't use that game as an example of the Rams playing solid defense. They only scored 23 points because the Chargers defense couldn't get off the field. LA had 33 first downs and were 8/11 on third down and they also held the ball for nearly 35 minutes. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know but I'm thinking that maybe getting rid of all of Robert Quinn, Alec Ogletree and Trumaine Johnson and bringing in all those new guys have something to do with this?

I know Suh, Talib and Peters can all be considered upgrades but that's a lot of new pieces and sometimes that can mess with team chemistry a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

The guy I quoted said, "Talib is as close as a shutdown corner as you can get in the NFL today". That is just factually not true in 2018.

You're basically just looking at his size and saying that he's good at press coverage when again, that isn't true. He isn't comfortable in trail technique on anything other than deep routes because he can't see the QB. That's his bread and butter - seeing the QB. He uses his length on contested balls which, when he is in position, he is as good as anyone in the league at disrupting the catch.

I am not saying he's not an upgrade on what you have, obviously. I disputed a guy trying to claim he's a shutdown CB compared with other DB's right now which isn't true.

Oh, and whilst we're on the 2015/16 Broncos - your pass rush isn't anything close to that team I am afraid. Talib's style of play was such a good match for that Broncos pass rush of Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware, Malik Jackson and Derek Wolfe. I mean, Aaron Donald is arguably the best player in the league but outside of that, it's an underwhelming group especially in comparison to that Broncos team (I would argue that both Shaq Barrett and Shane Ray, reserves from the 15/16 Broncos, would be fighting for a starting spot on that Rams team right now).

I'm basically saying that the metrics show a guy who was shutting WRs down from 2015 to 2017 and in the games he played in 2018. I am also basically saying that the claim that he isn't a great press CB isn't accurate. I'm not basically looking at his size and saying he's good at pressing. I have watched him play and can say with certainty that he's good at pressing. Support:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/21/2018 at 6:40 AM, Superman(DH23) said:

The run defense is what it is bc of Suh.  He doesnt care about gap integrity and never has, hes always looking to penetrate.  In Detroit Nick Fairley masked a lot of that by being the designated run defender.  But in LA nobody is telling Aaron Donald to not go pass first. When you have 2 interior defenders rushing the passer that opens up the a & b gap

xD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...