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broncosfan07

Pittsburgh @ Denver GDT--Maybe we don't suck?

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I had no clue Elijah Wilkinson was only a year 2 player. Not a bad find for an udfa last year. Does he stay at guard next year or replace Veldheer as our long term rt?

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2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

It's too close to say . I mean Vj has to coach his butt off the last month pf the year to keep it. 

Yeah maybe. He's been lousy at clock management, seems lost at times on the sidelines and is really bad in front off the cameras. On the flip side, outside of the Jets game the team seems well prepared, plays hard for 60 minutes, is starting to own the 2nd half against top competition and has absolutely no quit in them. They just keep coming at you and seem to improve every week. In short, the team is playing to the absolute best of their ability.

I've been on the fence about the guy, he really does make rookie mistakes, but I think it's his team now. If this is the kind of effort we see from his teams I'm definitely willing to let him learn on the job and correct his flaws as a HC. IMO right now the pluses outweigh the negatives.

The last 5 games should tell the tale. VJ could definitely win me over.

 

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On 22/11/2018 at 8:55 AM, lomaxgrUK said:

Same plan as the last game - stop the run, get after the QB on 3rd down and 5+, don't turn the ball over on Offense and hope we're still in the game come the 4th Quarter.

75 yards given up on the ground, 0 giveaways, 4 takeaways and win via an INT in your own endzone  - that should do it, even if the pass rush was way below par.

It doesn't make people pessimistic to say we were fortunate to win that game. I mean, if your opponent moves the ball that well every game you're going to lose a lot more games than you will win. You can't count on a fumble on the goal line, a fumble in the open field after a big gain and a blocked FG to win football games. That said ...

You can still get a slice of luck and be happy about it. Our young team is showing fight and a never say die attitude. We need to build that culture back, so I am delighted about that.

Don't really need to add much about Lindsay. He's special. Special attitude, special player. My favourite Bronco rookie since I started following the game.

It's great to see Shelby Harris making plays. He's going to be an interesting decision come the offseason. He played almost exclusively at DE last year but has played far more NT this year. Can we justify circa $10-12 mill a year on him and Peko, who is also a UFA? I doubt it. The more splash plays he makes, the more difficult it's going to be to re-sign him.

Case was, well, Case. He's not turning the ball over which is absolutely huge for us. I think Romo said it best about Case - he makes big plays, but the good ones make them 4 out of 5 times, not once or twice out of 5. We just keep leaving big plays on the field and like we've said after every game - we aren't good enough to not make those plays. If we start making them 4 out of 5 times, we won't have to rely on freak plays to win games.

We've been terrible on the road against non-dreadful (Arizona) teams, or teams without an actual home field advantage (Chargers), so next week is another gut check game against a reeling opponent.

If we can get back to .500, you never know ..... (I am pretty sure I do, but I like trying to be positive for once).

Edited by lomaxgrUK

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We played good but not great .

Denver have a soft schedule now and need to prove that last 2 games are not only luck !

If they take the remaining schedule seriously thay have a chance to be in the mix for the playoff.

The most dangerous unit are Colts , Titans , Ravens and....Chargers.

The Los Angeles schedule is hard with games against Chiefs, Steelers...and Denver to end the season

Baltimore is in the same situation as LA.

2 games very important. Next week Chargers at Steelers and season finale Chargers at Broncos.

If....if Steelers beat LA and Denver win it all.......at 10-6 all simulations push the Broncos with the 5th or 6th spot and put LA out...

So take it all and they are in PO lose 1 and they pick 18/20........

Before The LA game not very realistic but we need to be optimist this team is in mission !!

Edited by French Fan

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6 hours ago, AKRNA said:

So, 2-0 after the bye against quality competition. Like @lomaxgrUK mentioned last week, this is the brand of football we were promised. It's fun to see.

We've really become a good 2nd half team due I think to increased physicality in the trenches on both sides of the LOS. Our front 7 defensive rotations must really be wearing teams down. Same with the OL. In the 2nd half those little 2-4 yard runs in the first half are becoming 7+. 

There's no quit in this team at all and I think Von's post game presser says it all; "on to Cincinnatti" . 

Hey @BroncoBruin, weren't you the one who said early this year that you just wanted us to be competitive and improve during the year? I agreed when you said it and I'm quite pleased we're doing it. It's been a long time since we did much in the 2nd half of the season. This years starting to show promise.

Anyway, this team might just be turning a corner. If we continue to play like this our final regular season game might mean something. In the meantime, we're playing the role of spoiler very well.

Yup, exactly what I asked for. Really, that Jets game is the outlier in what has been a solid season.  No idea what happened there, but outside of that weird game this team battles, the young talent flashes and there are some legitimate foundation pieces in place. For as much of a joke as I've viewed VJ as, he seems to be finding his groove as a leader. Just looks so much more confident in what he's doing, hopefully he can parlay that into some improvement in other areas (clock management and situational football). 

Edited by BroncoBruin

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37 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

For as much of a joke as I've viewed VJ as, he seems to be finding his groove as a leader. Just looks so much more confident in what he's doing, hopefully he can parlay that into some improvement in other areas (clock management and situational football). 

I think I would have to put myself in that category too. I don't think he's done enough good in the last 2 games to negate what has still been a very poor tenure as a Head Coach, but all we can ask for is improvement and he's definitely shown that.

I felt for VJ when that Punter threw for the TD. The guys have played their ***** off all half, made a great stop, and you give up a TD like that. It's impossible to know where to point the finger (we don't know what has/hasn't been Coached) but VJ looked so, so, so mad.

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5 hours ago, AKRNA said:

Yeah maybe. He's been lousy at clock management, seems lost at times on the sidelines and is really bad in front off the cameras. On the flip side, outside of the Jets game the team seems well prepared, plays hard for 60 minutes, is starting to own the 2nd half against top competition and has absolutely no quit in them. They just keep coming at you and seem to improve every week. In short, the team is playing to the absolute best of their ability.

I've been on the fence about the guy, he really does make rookie mistakes, but I think it's his team now. If this is the kind of effort we see from his teams I'm definitely willing to let him learn on the job and correct his flaws as a HC. IMO right now the pluses outweigh the negatives.

The last 5 games should tell the tale. VJ could definitely win me over.

 

I just hope this isn't Vjs midseason version of Josh McDaniels.  Remember he was 6 and 0 at one point. There's no doubt this team battles week in a week out. But, I believe Vj was an Arizona loss from getting canned and its hard to come full circle. If Vj loses 3 of the last 5 what happens? It's still a can for me. He needs to win 3 or 4 out of 5 to keep his job too me.

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4 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

It's great to see Shelby Harris making plays. He's going to be an interesting decision come the offseason. He played almost exclusively at DE last year but has played far more NT this year. Can we justify circa $10-12 mill a year on him and Peko, who is also a UFA? I doubt it. The more splash plays he makes, the more difficult it's going to be to re-sign him.

I believe Shelby is a RFA, so they can slap a 2nd round tender on him (about 3 million) and not worry about him until this time next year. I really like Peko but he probably moves on. I think it makes more sense re-sign Kerr for cheap, younger and more versatile. 

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35 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I just hope this isn't Vjs midseason version of Josh McDaniels.  Remember he was 6 and 0 at one point. There's no doubt this team battles week in a week out. But, I believe Vj was an Arizona loss from getting canned and its hard to come full circle. If Vj loses 3 of the last 5 what happens? It's still a can for me. He needs to win 3 or 4 out of 5 to keep his job too me.

I think the play-offs are the only way VJ keeps his job.

The only other possibility is if Elway views the problem as not being his fault - the big danger is that Elway doesn't want to admit a mistake (but he did eventually cut Paxton Lynch). Who is available may also kick into the equation (eg one of the Harbaughs)

Edited by jolly red giant

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23 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I believe Shelby is a RFA, so they can slap a 2nd round tender on him (about 3 million) and not worry about him until this time next year. I really like Peko but he probably moves on. I think it makes more sense re-sign Kerr for cheap, younger and more versatile. 

He indeed is a RFA - and so we'll have him back for sure in 2019.  The Q obv is whether we let him walk in FA after 2019.   We know Elway doesn't normally sign guys to extensions until their final year (earliest is TC), but this is one they really need to consider.

Re: Peko, agreed 100 percent.   It's tough, but we have to look at future projection.  Each time we've extended a vet, 90 percent (or more) of the time, it's been an extension we regret shortly into the next contract, and that's even more so for our trench guys (the game is such a meat grinder).   

Our recent success has been built on young guys being brought in - which is a huge reason for continuing the rebuild-mode, and not go into win-now thinking.    The true contenders continually replenish their roster depth so they don't have to get into cap hell to win now - we lost our way after 2015 there.  Even this past offseason, if we look at all of our FA win-now signings - none of them have worked out, just cost us cap $ (Brock, McDonald, Veldheer).  Extending Marshall, signing Leary - all moves we regret (nothing against Leary per se, he was a top 5 G headed into FA, but had health flags - Elway did well to give us an out after 2 years, though).  

Now that we're finding cheap young talent, we shouldn't abandon the model.  If anything, this year should reinforce to go young, and with the kids - and only reserve extensions for guys who have a long-term future with our club as key difference makers.  Peko's been a warrior, but he's got zero long-term potential.   

Put it a different way - for each win-now vet we bring in - we deprive ourselves of the chance to find the next Shelby Harris (who was a post-roster cut addition just before Week 1).   Or a Wilkinson - who was on the roster bubble for vets like Max Garcia.   That's been a huge reason for why I've advocated for no big splashes in FA until we are truly better last offseason.  We're getting there, but another year or two of a youth-first approach would do wonders for our long-term health - and probably isn't a whole lot worse for our short-term chances, either.

Edited by Broncofan

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1 hour ago, thebestever6 said:

I just hope this isn't Vjs midseason version of Josh McDaniels.  Remember he was 6 and 0 at one point. There's no doubt this team battles week in a week out. But, I believe Vj was an Arizona loss from getting canned and its hard to come full circle. If Vj loses 3 of the last 5 what happens? It's still a can for me. He needs to win 3 or 4 out of 5 to keep his job too me.

 

36 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

I think the play-offs are the only way VJ keeps his job.

The only other possibility is if Elway views the problem as not being his fault - the big danger is that Elway doesn't want to admit a mistake (but he did eventually cut Paxton Lynch). Who is available may also kick into the equation (eg one of the Harbaughs)

I have nothing but love for the team's heart, the youth core we are establishing, and their character.  Having said that, a sober analysis says we won both games given the TO battle (4 TO's vs. PIT and a blocked FG were all needed vs PIT - and vs. LAC, their crazy-bad clock management, the 2 TO's which not only gave us points with short fields, but took away sure points they were driving for).  And a clean sheet on our side.   Here's the thing - that's not sustainable, unless it's a reflection of a complete, elite historic-level D (like our 2015 team, CHI's D is the only one that fits the bill this year), or an O that's so good it rarely makes mistakes.    And I think it's safe to say we know we don't have either yet.   

A 8-8 season could in theory save VJ, but that would be a huge negative for our org's future.   It's still the same VJ that has little to no ability to adjust in-game, and has terrible clock management.  The same guy who had all the flaws that made it an obvious firing 2 weeks ago.   The "every given Sunday" line holds true - I mean, let's face it, OAK and ARI have won 2 games (and OAK probably should have beaten us at home).   And we know how bad they are.   But process-wise, he's not our long-term answer.   

If we keep winning the 2-3+ TO margin, that will win our fair share of games - but that applies for any team.  The problem is that's not a sustainable model, unless we are suddenly the 2015 D again, or a team with a great O that can win games on its own.  And we know we aren't (and we also know the D-only model has zero margin for error).     It's very true we don't have to be a complete team to succeed - but those flawed teams win with great QB play and great coaching.  We have neither.  Winning 2 games vs. better teams where the TO margin gets a huge part of it, shouldn't change our coaching analysis.   I have way more optimism about this team headed into 2019 than I did same time last year, and that's on the draft and the other young guys.   VJ, though, isn't one of the reasons for that optimism.

 

Edited by Broncofan

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Also: Sean Kugler is one hell of a coach for our OL to be performing the way it is with its two best players out. 

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I don't think bringing back a 33 yr old NT should be much of an issue. I can't see someone throwing much money at him. 

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18 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Also: Sean Kugler is one hell of a coach for our OL to be performing the way it is with its two best players out. 

Absolutely.   It's also quite telling that Schofield is succeeding in LAC at T, too.   Doesn't take away from Kugler's success, though.  It suggests that maybe, we won't have to hit FA by default (or have to go Rd1 strictly by need) to get replacements.   As much as trench warfare is absolutely essential to succeed, a Day 2-3 starter helps so much.   Trying to have 4-5 of the starters be high-priced or high-capital, well, it just kills our ability to address other key needs.  

A tougher decision is going to come if McGovern plays well at C.  Paradis has been nothing but an absolute warrior and top-character and glue-of-line guy...but if the interior OL holds up...man, that's a tougher call then.   I didn't think it was likely, but the interior with him at C & 2 backup G's have played well.    Of course, it's only 2 games, so we'll have to see how it holds up.  But imagine if Wilkinson is a year 3 starter at min wage at 1 G position.   That would be an amazing upgrade in cap relief if he's even just league-average at G, and McGovern can be decent at C.   And it's nothing against Paradis, he deserves top 5 C $ in FA - just cap management matters so much.

Edited by Broncofan

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2 minutes ago, champ11 said:

I don't think bringing back a 33 yr old NT should be much of an issue. I can't see someone throwing much money at him. 

If he's willing to stay on a 1-year team-friendly deal, no sweat.   Kind of like how some teams keep 1 guy each year on 1-year deals, until he's done.  Just shouldn't even be a TJ-Ward level deal. 

Edited by Broncofan

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