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Are we at the end of the Rhodes...?

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4 hours ago, vikingsrule said:

We're cursed in a way, being regularly too good to have a top 5 pick, or even top 10 pick. Looking at the most recent top 10 picks, Matt Kalil (top 5) in 2012 and Anthony Barr in 2014 (top 10), we really blew those two picks by not taking true difference makers. 

Kalil was a bust after a promising rookie year. Injuries and what seems to be a lack of interest killed his career.

Barr was just an underwhelming pick and i think many saw that when he was penciled in as a 4-3 off ball OLB. You just don't draft that position early. The pick in hindsight should have been Aaron Donald or Zach Martin.

Neither draft was great for QBs in that top 10. Colts lucked out with Luck and weren't going to budge. Washington went all in for RGIII but ended up with a better QB in round four (who's now our problem). Tannehill was an okay pick, just seems injuries have really derailed his career.

I have a tough time calling Barr a "bust."  Is he splashy?  No.  But, he generally takes care of business...AND he broke Aaron Rodgers collarbone...that alone has to be worth something!!!

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8 hours ago, swede700 said:

There's thing called trading.  If there is a "once-in-a-lifetime" QB (which is a silly notion anyway), they have the option to trade up for the guy they want...without tanking.  The Chiefs did it.  Washington thought they did it when they traded up for RGIII.  The Eagles did it.  You don't have to sacrifice an entire season to "Suck for Luck" or whatever nonsense they come up with for Lawrence.    

ABHORRENCE FOR LAWRENCE!!!

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Xavier Rhodes

What worked: Opposing teams did not have a ton of success when targeting the Vikings’ shutdown corner. They threw in Rhodes’ direction 69 times with 45 completions for 470 yards (6.8 yards per attempt), two touchdowns and one interception, good for an 88.4 rating. While that isn’t quite as good as his previous two seasons (47.0 rating in 2016 and 77.4 in 2017), it’s still a solid mark, ranking 35th out of 80 corners with at least 300 coverage snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. Rhodes continued to be a solid run defender, grading 25th of 77 against the run by PFF standards, and was 16th rated in tackling.

What didn’t work:  While his coverage numbers are still above average, his coverage grade by PFF was well below average. Of 77 corners with at least 600 snaps, he ranked 70th. Why the disparity? Penalties. Only eight corners in the NFL took more penalties in 2018 than Rhodes. The veteran corner battled injuries throughout the year, which likely played a role in some of his rough games. However, he’s consistently been one of the most penalized corners in the NFL.

Trae Waynes

What worked: After his first two years in the NFL, it was fair to wonder what he might become, but Waynes has turned into a reliable starting corner over the past two seasons. In 2018, opponents targeted him 54 times for 7.9 yards per attempt with a 95.4 rating. Those numbers are similar to 2017, in which he gave up a 92.3 rating. Waynes was only penalized in coverage three times. The former first-round pick’s best asset is his run defense. PFF graded him the seventh best run defender and fourth best tackler at his position.

What didn’t work:  If the Vikings were hoping for one more step forward from their athletically-gifted corner, they were probably disappointed. Overall he graded 35th of 77 by PFF — a similar mark to his 46th ranking in 2017. The silver lining is that, as the Vikings decide whether to give him a contract extension, they know exactly what they have.

Options:

— The cap-strapped Vikings  could trade either Xavier Rhodes or Trae Waynes in order to create cap room. Rhodes is set to carry a $13.3 million cap number in 2019 and Waynes is playing on his $9 million fifth-year option. With Hughes and Hill on the rise, dealing either starter might not take as much of a toll on the defense as we might expect. However, the return might not be all that impressive. Last offseason the Chiefs dealt Marcus Peters for a 2018 fourth-round pick and 2019 second-round pick.

— If the Vikings believe Waynes is an answer long term, they could sign him to a contract extension this offseason the same way they did with Stefon Diggs, Danielle Hunter and Eric Kendricks last offseason.

— There isn’t much reason to sign another corner unless a deal was made. If they did move on from Rhodes or Waynes in exchange for draft picks, they could sign a veteran to improve the depth. Solid (and likely affordable) players set to hit the market on March 13 include: Darryl Roberts, Sam Shields, Bashaud Breeland, Jimmie Ward, Buster Skrine and Darqueze Dennard.

— It wouldn’t be surprising to anyone if the Vikings drafted a corner in the middle rounds.

https://www.skornorth.com/vikings-2/2019/02/the-future-of-the-vikings-part-8-the-cornerbacks/

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Rhodes didn't look like himself last season (unless you count the laundry list of injuries). I would let him go to save some money, start Hill in his place, keep Waynes, and draft a new corner in the 4th round or so (NOT the first, Mike Zimmer).

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Working a GM mock, and I moved Rhodes to the Chiefs for pick 1.29 and WR Demarcus Robinson

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46 minutes ago, RpMc said:

Working a GM mock, and I moved Rhodes to the Chiefs for pick 1.29 and WR Demarcus Robinson

Who did you draft with that pick, btw?

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Just now, perrynoid said:

Who did you draft with that pick, btw?

Haven't done the draft yet.

I'm enjoying having 1.18 and 1.29, and planning the possibilities.

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8 hours ago, RpMc said:

Working a GM mock, and I moved Rhodes to the Chiefs for pick 1.29 and WR Demarcus Robinson

I know yours is a complete theoretical deal, but what do you think Rhodes could realistically bring in a trade? He was banged up and had a down year, will be 29 in June, and his cap hit is 13.3 million. I think a second rounder would be optimistic, but I could be wrong.

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47 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

I know yours is a complete theoretical deal, but what do you think Rhodes could realistically bring in a trade? He was banged up and had a down year, will be 29 in June, and his cap hit is 13.3 million. I think a second rounder would be optimistic, but I could be wrong.

Depends on the team. I think a first, from a team like the Chiefs, who are a contending team, with a QB on a team friendly deal, have a very late first, and are in desperate need of corners isn’t out of the realm of possibility. 

Edited by RpMc

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On 1/10/2019 at 8:16 AM, swede700 said:

There's thing called trading.  If there is a "once-in-a-lifetime" QB (which is a silly notion anyway), they have the option to trade up for the guy they want...without tanking.  The Chiefs did it.  Washington thought they did it when they traded up for RGIII.  The Eagles did it.  You don't have to sacrifice an entire season to "Suck for Luck" or whatever nonsense they come up with for Lawrence.    

Trying to use Patrick Mahomes as an example isn't going to hold a ton of water, especially considering the fact that there very few people who thought he was anywhere near a "once-in-a-lifetime" QB.  The Chiefs gambled on Mahomes hoping that he'd break the Air Raid streak of busts, and it worked out.  But it's not really a stable comparison to try and use.  The closer comp would be Carson Wentz or RG3 in recent years.  Both teams gave up multiple FRPs, and both teams were within a dozen spots of making that move up.  The Redskins were 6th when they made the move up for RG3 and the Eagles were at 8th when they made the move up.  The Vikings currently are picking 18th, and haven't picked in the top 12 since 2015 when they took Trae Waynes.  You have to be within striking distance, and right now Minnesota is good enough not to be within striking distance and not good enough to win a Super Bowl.  It's that awkward QB purgatory.

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7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Trying to use Patrick Mahomes as an example isn't going to hold a ton of water, especially considering the fact that there very few people who thought he was anywhere near a "once-in-a-lifetime" QB.  The Chiefs gambled on Mahomes hoping that he'd break the Air Raid streak of busts, and it worked out.  But it's not really a stable comparison to try and use.  The closer comp would be Carson Wentz or RG3 in recent years.  Both teams gave up multiple FRPs, and both teams were within a dozen spots of making that move up.  The Redskins were 6th when they made the move up for RG3 and the Eagles were at 8th when they made the move up.  The Vikings currently are picking 18th, and haven't picked in the top 12 since 2015 when they took Trae Waynes.  You have to be within striking distance, and right now Minnesota is good enough not to be within striking distance and not good enough to win a Super Bowl.  It's that awkward QB purgatory.

I only used the Mahomes example for the purpose of using the trade to get they guy they want.  No one, myself included thought at the time that he was worth trading up that high for (since he was often valued as a low-1st round pick)...but, in their minds, he was a once-in-a-lifetime QB.  You don't trade up that high if you don't feel that way.   The Chiefs don't gamble on QBs in the draft.  There's a reason they hadn't taken a first round QB in 34 years.  

Edited by swede700

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10 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Trying to use Patrick Mahomes as an example isn't going to hold a ton of water, especially considering the fact that there very few people who thought he was anywhere near a "once-in-a-lifetime" QB.  The Chiefs gambled on Mahomes hoping that he'd break the Air Raid streak of busts, and it worked out.  But it's not really a stable comparison to try and use.  The closer comp would be Carson Wentz or RG3 in recent years.  Both teams gave up multiple FRPs, and both teams were within a dozen spots of making that move up.  The Redskins were 6th when they made the move up for RG3 and the Eagles were at 8th when they made the move up.  The Vikings currently are picking 18th, and haven't picked in the top 12 since 2015 when they took Trae Waynes.  You have to be within striking distance, and right now Minnesota is good enough not to be within striking distance and not good enough to win a Super Bowl.  It's that awkward QB purgatory.

Finding a QB like Mahomes or Rodgers might have more to do with having good luck and coaching than anything else. 

The Vikes won't be in a position to get a top 3 pick, they'll have to trade up from the teens and hope for some luck in a deep class like the Chiefs did. I'm not sure when the best time would be for the Vikes to make such a move. 2020? 2021?

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11 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

Finding a QB like Mahomes or Rodgers might have more to do with having good luck and coaching than anything else. 

The Vikes won't be in a position to get a top 3 pick, they'll have to trade up from the teens and hope for some luck in a deep class like the Chiefs did. I'm not sure when the best time would be for the Vikes to make such a move. 2020? 2021?

I'm in favor of waiting until seeing how Cousins performs this year first.  If we see a repeat of last year, I will be all in favor of drafting a QB in 2020 either in the 1st or 2nd round.

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