Dwayne Haskins

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, thrILL! said:

Corps corps corps 

also you forgot this guy 

 

I see what you’re saying but rarely do the last of that 7 deep get heavy rotation or contribute barring significant injuries.  Of the WR rotation that play significant roles, give me Bama’s.  

I agree, but again that is three guys not seven of them.  Want to play semantics and debate what WR core means whatever, I call a core the entire roster of WRs not just the starting two or three good ones.  If you are talking three good ones a lot of teams have three good WRs in college, a few listed below.  And once more Alabama's WRs was a more deep group last year and that is a fact I feel.  This year they are very good I agree and Jeudy is better than any WR on Ohio State, yes, they just do not have seven different ones to pick from like Ohio State could arguably.

 

Ole Miss: Brown, Metcalf, Lodge, Moore
Oklahoma: Brown, Lamb, Morris
Toldeo:  D. Johnson, Thompson, J. Johnson
South Carolina: Samuel, Edwards, O. Smith, S. Smith
NC State: Harmon and Meyers
Texas:  Johnson, Humphrey, Duvernay
West Virginia: Sills, Jennings, Simms
Texas Tech:  Wesley, Vasher, High, Collins

 

Could easily say Oklahoma with just the two of Brown and Lamb are as good as any other two in the nation, same with Ole Miss and Brown/Metcalf.  Regardless no team arguably goes seven deep like Ohio State.  Sure some have underachieved in that Ohio State group or got injured, but a ton of them have been productive and are legit prospects for the next level without question.  Are they all 1st rounders, yeah no.

 

 

8 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I guess you are entitled to your opinion but this is so off and screams of a view looking from the outside (which is not always bad) but off.

a) tOSU in no way has the best WR corp, they have always have underachieved, if they really played up to their potential, Benjamin Victor would be one a surefire NFL prospect, he is hot garbage, we are relying on journeymen WRs like Terry McLaurin, and Johnny Dixon who just now finally show that they have a pulse and KJ Hill who is ok and Paris Campbell who is a bona fide RB they aren't even the best corp in the B1G (Michigan with DPJ, Tarik Black and Nico Collins is way better), Luke Farrell is barely a pro prospect, there is nothing special about him, please stop with the embellishment

b)Now what you fail to realize looking from the outside, what will make Haskins a good NFL QB is his temperament (which people from the outside don't see). This guy never flinches, he is always even keel, there is no situation too big for him, just goes out and does his job, this is HUGE. He comes in off the bench cold against Michigan last year, he just quietly dices up the #1 defense in the country with ease, comes in and basically carves up every defense he goes up against all year with zero emotion, this is key for a QB at the next level.

c)As far as his tools, they are all there, they have always been there, the only difference has been has been the play of the OL, which has been erratic and underwhelming to say the least, when he doesn't have a clean pocket, there are times where he can't step into a throw and affect his mechanics, or if we can't sustain a running game making us predictable (which he still is successful the majority of the time). As far as the routes, please don't be naïve and think he literally threw crossing routes all year, that was just the gameplan formulated against the team we played for that specific week, he threw pretty much every route there is in the book as a matter of fact, and he is literally the most consistent QB prospect, extensive film study will show that (not just my words). The only thing that changed throughout the year has been the play of the OL, which of course affects the play of the QB.

d)Honestly, you sound like you just don't like the guy which is fine but at least try to be unbiased about describing him and his characteristics. Do a little more than just throw out a cold generalization about the guy without knowing the whole story, if don't like the guy just say it.

e)I voted top 16, and It could be even higher with how he plays moving forward and the draft process

Say what you want, that is great but you are obviously a biased Ohio State fan.  Anyone that says anything against an Ohio State player you like, you will defend them to the death.  And I recall you saying Johnny Dixon was a hell of a WR with amazing speed, now you think he barely has a pulse?  I believe it was a debate of I thought KJ Hill was a better player as a WR and you thought he was not, turns out at least this year he totally has been better than Dixon has.  Michigan a better WR core than Ohio State?  Trade QBs, see how well Haskins does on that Michigan offense,  it might struggle a little bit where as Patterson would do quite well with the Ohio State group I feel based on what he did at Ole Miss.  Michigan they have some ok receivers but nothing to the same level as Ohio State and that was shown in the game on Saturday.  A ton of those plays were yards after the catch and a lot of yards after the catch.   Farrell barely a pro prospect?  You act as if being a promising NFL prospect at TE and a large 6-6 athlete is like as simple as going to the grocery store, it is not.  

 

I feel Dwayne Haskins is not a super star QB prospect, good sure great not totally sold on that yet and benefits potentially this year from a bad QB class. No emotion?  Sure is kind of nice for a QB at times, but lack of passion and intensity is not always that great, go ask Drew Brees or Tom Brady about that.  I think Haskins needs to show more and that is why I hope he comes back for another year.

 

Pretend I just hate Dwyane Haskins, yeah that is it.  I watch far more variety of games than almost anyone and I am not singling out my favorite teams star players and hyping them up.  In the grand scheme of things Haskins is not this amazing elite talent, still has to show a little for me to call him that.  That is like calling Mitchell Trubisky a super star coming out of college, the guy barely played in college, heck Trubisky played more than even Haskins has played, and Trubisky was crazy raw coming into the NFL.  Talented yes but this super star Peyton Manning or Drew Brees type, no.  

 

If Haskins is this all time great QB, then rank him over the past 5-10 years compared to other QBs who have come out.  I already said the players I would take over him, who if any would you take over Haskins right now?  Who is the best Ohio State QB to ever play in the NFL?  Bobby Hoying?  Yeah it is kind of hard to find one and that has to mean a little something.  Haskins could be the most talented one to come into the league, good shot at that but becoming a star?  Well he would be the 1st and really only one ever out of Ohio State at QB in the history of the NFL.  

 

[.Buzz]

9 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I guess you are entitled to your opinion but this is so off and screams of a view looking from the outside (which is not always bad) but off.

a) tOSU in no way has the best WR corp, they have always have underachieved, if they really played up to their potential, Benjamin Victor would be one a surefire NFL prospect, he is hot garbage, we are relying on journeymen WRs like Terry McLaurin, and Johnny Dixon who just now finally show that they have a pulse and KJ Hill who is ok and Paris Campbell who is a bona fide RB they aren't even the best corp in the B1G (Michigan with DPJ, Tarik Black and Nico Collins is way better), Luke Farrell is barely a pro prospect, there is nothing special about him, please stop with the embellishment

b)Now what you fail to realize looking from the outside, what will make Haskins a good NFL QB is his temperament (which people from the outside don't see). This guy never flinches, he is always even keel, there is no situation too big for him, just goes out and does his job, this is HUGE. He comes in off the bench cold against Michigan last year, he just quietly dices up the #1 defense in the country with ease, comes in and basically carves up every defense he goes up against all year with zero emotion, this is key for a QB at the next level.

c)As far as his tools, they are all there, they have always been there, the only difference has been has been the play of the OL, which has been erratic and underwhelming to say the least, when he doesn't have a clean pocket, there are times where he can't step into a throw and affect his mechanics, or if we can't sustain a running game making us predictable (which he still is successful the majority of the time). As far as the routes, please don't be naïve and think he literally threw crossing routes all year, that was just the gameplan formulated against the team we played for that specific week, he threw pretty much every route there is in the book as a matter of fact, and he is literally the most consistent QB prospect, extensive film study will show that (not just my words). The only thing that changed throughout the year has been the play of the OL, which of course affects the play of the QB.

d)Honestly, you sound like you just don't like the guy which is fine but at least try to be unbiased about describing him and his characteristics. Do a little more than just throw out a cold generalization about the guy without knowing the whole story, if don't like the guy just say it.

e)I voted top 16, and It could be even higher with how he plays moving forward and the draft process

+1. Loved reading this about him. 

[Raves]

39 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I agree, but again that is three guys not seven of them.  Want to play semantics and debate what WR core means whatever, I call a core the entire roster of WRs not just the starting two or three good ones.  If you are talking three good ones a lot of teams have three good WRs in college, a few listed below.  And once more Alabama's WRs was a more deep group last year and that is a fact I feel.  This year they are very good I agree and Jeudy is better than any WR on Ohio State, yes, they just do not have seven different ones to pick from like Ohio State could arguably.

So would you say the Falcons or the Saints have the better WR corp?  That's pretty much the same argument you're making.  Ohio State might have a lot of players performing around the same level, but that level isn't great, at least not consistently.  I would take plenty of other teams WR corps without thinking twice over how Ohio State's have looked this entire year.

[Ozzy]

1 minute ago, Raves said:

So would you say the Falcons or the Saints have the better WR corp?  That's pretty much the same argument you're making.  Ohio State might have a lot of players performing around the same level, but that level isn't great, at least not consistently.  I would take plenty of other teams WR corps without thinking twice over how Ohio State's have looked this entire year.

How is that the same argument?  The Saints just tried to sign Dez Bryant then he got injured and now signed Brandon Marshall because their WR core is so strong and deep?  No.  Their second best WR outside of Thomas is a RB.  

Ohio State is the #2 ranked Total offense in college football and the #2 ranked passing offense in college football.  Yeah that WR group is really a terrible spot for that roster...sure.  I stated already some of the other top teams in the nation in terms of their WR depth, Ohio State ranks right up there with them all and again in terms of flat out depth there is no roster better.  Thus my comment 'WR core', being core group of position players, meaning all of them.

[Raves]

5 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

How is that the same argument?  The Saints just tried to sign Dez Bryant then he got injured and now signed Brandon Marshall because their WR core is so strong and deep?  No.  Their second best WR outside of Thomas is a RB.  

Ohio State is the #2 ranked Total offense in college football and the #2 ranked passing offense in college football.  Yeah that WR group is really a terrible spot for that roster...sure.  I stated already some of the other top teams in the nation in terms of their WR depth, Ohio State ranks right up there with them all and again in terms of flat out depth there is no roster better.  Thus my comment 'WR core', being core group of position players, meaning all of them.

The Saints have like 6 WRs they can choose from though.  Brees just threw 4 TDs to guys not named Kamara or Thomas.

[Ozzy]

7 minutes ago, Raves said:

The Saints have like 6 WRs they can choose from though.  Brees just threw 4 TDs to guys not named Kamara or Thomas.

Yes the Saints as an NFL roster have NFL level receivers because they are a NFL team.  And?  Not to mention you have one of the best QBs to ever play the game that knows how to spread the ball around.  That does not mean they have a great WR core and that is proven by the fact they had to sign to older free agents to get another legit weapon out there.  But sure that has not stopped the offense much.

 

With Ohio State one could argue Campbell could be a #1 or #2 guy, same with Hill, or Victor, or McLaurin, or Dixon or Mack or Olave if he plays like he did against Michigan more consistently.  Sure one guy has not totally taken over the #1 spot but there is a ton of talent there in my view and to say there is not, well I just do not agree with that at all.  They have three very experienced SRs, two good JRs and that talented Freshman in Olave.  Few teams have that kind of depth and experience at WR in college, and if so many do who are they?  

[Raves]

15 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Yes the Saints as an NFL roster have NFL level receivers because they are a NFL team.  And?  Not to mention you have one of the best QBs to ever play the game that knows how to spread the ball around.  That does not mean they have a great WR core and that is proven by the fact they had to sign to older free agents to get another legit weapon out there.  But sure that has not stopped the offense much.

 

With Ohio State one could argue Campbell could be a #1 or #2 guy, same with Hill, or Victor, or McLaurin, or Dixon or Mack or Olave if he plays like he did against Michigan more consistently.  Sure one guy has not totally taken over the #1 spot but there is a ton of talent there in my view and to say there is not, well I just do not agree with that at all.  They have three very experienced SRs, two good JRs and that talented Freshman in Olave.  Few teams have that kind of depth and experience at WR in college, and if so many do who are they?  

Although those guys could be at that level, only Campbell has really played at that level the entire season with any consistency.  The rest have been hit or miss, so although they are deep with being able to find plays that might perform that day, they don't have the consistency to perform at that level.  That's why I mentioned the Saints.  They have several WRs that could be #2, but they haven't been consistent outside of Thomas and Kamara out of the backfield, which is why the Saints looked to sign Marshall/Bryant to try and get a more consistent WR across from Thomas.

[Ozzy]

21 minutes ago, Raves said:

Although those guys could be at that level, only Campbell has really played at that level the entire season with any consistency.  The rest have been hit or miss, so although they are deep with being able to find plays that might perform that day, they don't have the consistency to perform at that level.  That's why I mentioned the Saints.  They have several WRs that could be #2, but they haven't been consistent outside of Thomas and Kamara out of the backfield, which is why the Saints looked to sign Marshall/Bryant to try and get a more consistent WR across from Thomas.

Michael Thomas never had 800+ yards receiving ever in college or ever scored 10+ TDs in a season in college.  There was a reason he was a 2nd round pick, many thought he underachieved in college.  So sure players can underachieved a little at times but that does not mean they are any less talented or are any less of an interesting prospect.  And I am still waiting for this college team to have more NFL prospects at WR than Ohio State in pure volume and total amount currently.  Then again I already did the work for you and included the pro prospects they have on the roster currently with some teams, could add Clemson to that list as well and of course Alabama but that was already brought up.  And do not be surprised to obviously see Victor have a much better year next season, same with Mack and potentially and Olave, not to mention KJ Hill if he even decides to return to school.  

[MWil23]

Michael Thomas didn’t put up those stats because JT Barrett was his QB and absolute garbage throwing the ball. Every OSU fan out there knew exactly how good he was/is. 

[MSURacerDT55]

12 hours ago, Ozzy said:

With Ohio State one could argue Campbell could be a #1 or #2 guy

Please stop......

[IDOG_det]

16 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Regardless no team arguably goes seven deep like Ohio State

That isn't a testament to Ohio States superior depth at WR. It's a testament to the superior talent of the starters on other teams. It's why someone like Van Jefferson transferred away from Ole Miss, he has the talent to start at damn near every school in the country and he was the 5th receiving option there. Ohio State has a rotation because they don't have anyone who has separated themselves as legit WR1.

[IDOG_det]

15 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Ohio State is the #2 ranked Total offense in college football and the #2 ranked passing offense in college football.

All thanks to the wide receivers? The QB hasn't played a significant role in that?

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, IDOG_det said:

Ohio State has a rotation because they don't have anyone who has separated themselves as legit WR1

This

[Ozzy]

7 hours ago, IDOG_det said:

All thanks to the wide receivers? The QB hasn't played a significant role in that?

Yes he has I agree, and I already said he is way better than Barrett was years previous.  But even last year with Barrett the team was 7th in the nation in total offensive yards and 6th in the nation in passing TDs a game with a far inferior QB and almost exactly the same WRs outside of the TE.  

 

Guess who is #3 in total passing yards this year?  I already talked about Ole Miss and the depth they have... Jordan Ta'amu and he would be lucky to be a 5th-7th round pick, and he looks better than he is because of the WRs he is passing to.  Keep pretending Ohio State has these flat out awful WRs to throw to, if you want to believe that whatever.  Haskins is much better than Ta'amu sure but who you throw to does matter.

 

In 2001 this is the WR core/ total offensive weapon group Drew Brees had.

Taylor Stubblefield WR
John Standeford WR
Seth Morales WR
Chris James WR
Tim Stratton TE
Montrell Lowe RB

Want to complain about WR talent yeah this would be it, and played in a time where defenders were not strapped by as many physical rules they have now.  It was far more difficult yet he did quite well obviously.  So the Drew Brees comparisons can just flat out stop in regards to Haskins.  Oh he broke Drew Brees Big Ten record, that does not make him a Drew Brees type talent.  

 

 

I am not ready to anoint Dwayne Haskins as this all time great QB prospect and potential superstar NFL QB.  Some of you guys are that is great, I am not.  Still waiting to hear this group of seven WRs on a college roster player currently that is better.  Oh and Jake Bentley he is another that looks a little bit better than he actually is thanks to who he gets to pass the ball too. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tugboat]

On 27/11/2018 at 5:31 PM, Raves said:

Although those guys could be at that level, only Campbell has really played at that level the entire season with any consistency.  The rest have been hit or miss, so although they are deep with being able to find plays that might perform that day, they don't have the consistency to perform at that level.  That's why I mentioned the Saints.  They have several WRs that could be #2, but they haven't been consistent outside of Thomas and Kamara out of the backfield, which is why the Saints looked to sign Marshall/Bryant to try and get a more consistent WR across from Thomas.

I think that's kinda the point though, as pertains to Haskins and considering his supporting cast and how that might flatter him.

Ohio State may not have the same absolute stud bluechip superstar talent with great consistency in the top spots on the depth chart...but like you said, and like the Saints...they've got the sort of depth of at least quality players that on any given Saturday, you're going to have guys stepping up.  They've got enough talented weapons that they can generally run out more guys who are going and fresh, than the typical defense has similar caliber cover guys.

Combined with the scheme, it gives Haskins quality targets pretty much every week, who can pile of some serious YAC on "easy" underneath throws that can really flatter his statline.

Whether any of those Ohio State receivers are specifically destined for superstardom at the NFL level or not, they're good athletes who can produce at the NCAA level, and there are a lot of them, which makes for a lot of weapons to account for on any given week.

The question is how much that flatters Haskins, and how well he'll adjust to a different situation with less margin built in, tougher throws, tighter windows, less "free" yac yards, etc.