Jaguars bench QB Bortles, starting Kessler week 13

[Elky]

17 hours ago, Boltstrikes said:

That time he torched the Patriots?

My grandmother's corpse can torch our defense.

[NJerseypaint]

11 minutes ago, Elky said:

My grandmother's corpse can torch our defense.

The Jets FO would like to speak to your grandmother's corpse's agent.

[Woz]

14 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

hes a 3rd String TE at best and probably the best ST TE in the league. 

theres no way u can tell me hes a Starting caliber TE in the NFL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7FixvoKBw  @ the 2:30 mark

[Ward4HOF]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:28 PM, Manny/Patrick said:

Well all those Blake threads last year can be locked now

You mean all the ones that said he was a future All-Star? The Best QB in the AFC South?  

Do you mean, all the threads/posts that blamed everyone and everything else on the Jaguars, or going on within the franchise, for any Bortles miscues? 

The threads/posts that claimed he was a better QB than Eli Manning??  Big Ben??  Rivers??

Those posts that said that if Bortles had a Defense, or a RB, or decent WRs, or TEs, or a decent OL that gave him time to throw, that he'd be a top 5 QB in the league??

Ooh, or my favorite...the 'eye-test' posts...the ones that said he just passes the 'eye-test', and his stats, such as low completion % and high INT rate were not indicative of his true talent.

I'm summarizing here, of course, and 'over-selling' my point..but really, not my much.  It hink it was either last season, or the season before I had a long, drawn out debate with a non-Jag fan regarding Bortles, and I was told I had no clue what I was talking about; any and all of Bortles less-than-stellar stats could be explained away by everything else that WASN'T Bortles; he really was going to break out and be the next big star.  Well, it's not looking so good in Bortles' corner right now, but I'm sure, this is a misguided effort by the HC, and a mistake.  Bortles just needs a better support staff, is all.  If he had that, he'd be great!  Too bad the other 31 starting QBs in the league don't get to use that excuse.  That would be awesome.

"Ben would be so much better this season, and have much fewer interceptions if he ONLY had his WR2 at his disposal this season...you know, LeVeon Bell, the guy who deserves to be paid like a RB + WR2, combined, because he plays like one.  If Ben only had him, he'd probably only have like, 6 INTs, instead of 12. He'd probably lead the league in Passer rating if both Bell and Bryant were still on the team.  And look at Antonio Brown; he's having a down year because he's not leading the league in Receiving Yards (nevermind his 11 TDs).  And the Steelers still don;t have a true #1 TE.  That's all Ben needs to be the Top QB in the league...Bell, Bryant, AB being back to his normal, 4-time 1st Team All-Pro self, and a real TE...oh, and a good defense...if he had that, he's be the best!"

 

Or did I completely misinterpret your meaning, Manny/Patrick!?!?  LOL!!  

[Manny/Patrick]

9 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

You mean all the ones that said he was a future All-Star? The Best QB in the AFC South?  

Do you mean, all the threads/posts that blamed everyone and everything else on the Jaguars, or going on within the franchise, for any Bortles miscues? 

The threads/posts that claimed he was a better QB than Eli Manning??  Big Ben??  Rivers??

Those posts that said that if Bortles had a Defense, or a RB, or decent WRs, or TEs, or a decent OL that gave him time to throw, that he'd be a top 5 QB in the league??

Ooh, or my favorite...the 'eye-test' posts...the ones that said he just passes the 'eye-test', and his stats, such as low completion % and high INT rate were not indicative of his true talent.

I'm summarizing here, of course, and 'over-selling' my point..but really, not my much.  It hink it was either last season, or the season before I had a long, drawn out debate with a non-Jag fan regarding Bortles, and I was told I had no clue what I was talking about; any and all of Bortles less-than-stellar stats could be explained away by everything else that WASN'T Bortles; he really was going to break out and be the next big star.  Well, it's not looking so good in Bortles' corner right now, but I'm sure, this is a misguided effort by the HC, and a mistake.  Bortles just needs a better support staff, is all.  If he had that, he'd be great!  Too bad the other 31 starting QBs in the league don't get to use that excuse.  That would be awesome.

"Ben would be so much better this season, and have much fewer interceptions if he ONLY had his WR2 at his disposal this season...you know, LeVeon Bell, the guy who deserves to be paid like a RB + WR2, combined, because he plays like one.  If Ben only had him, he'd probably only have like, 6 INTs, instead of 12. He'd probably lead the league in Passer rating if both Bell and Bryant were still on the team.  And look at Antonio Brown; he's having a down year because he's not leading the league in Receiving Yards (nevermind his 11 TDs).  And the Steelers still don;t have a true #1 TE.  That's all Ben needs to be the Top QB in the league...Bell, Bryant, AB being back to his normal, 4-time 1st Team All-Pro self, and a real TE...oh, and a good defense...if he had that, he's be the best!"

 

Or did I completely misinterpret your meaning, Manny/Patrick!?!?  LOL!!  

You hit it on the head.which coincidentally, Bortles cannot do

[Ward4HOF]

39 minutes ago, Manny/Patrick said:

You hit it on the head.which coincidentally, Bortles cannot do

Well, if you're going to be so succinct and boring about it...no flair at all, man!  Hahaha...

Okay, never mind, we all know the truth...I'm just entirely too long-winded, but I don't like to leave anything to interpretation, LOL!!

[Ward4HOF]

On 11/27/2018 at 3:35 PM, .Buzz said:

Or when the defense faltered massively against Pittsburgh in the playoffs and Bortles and the offense had to pretty much go shot for shot with them in the 2nd half?

Bortles had plenty of big time moments last year. I know I was drinking the kool-aid after thinking it was time to move on after his struggles in the preseason.

Umm...the game where JAX was winning 28-7 with less than 2 minutes to go in the 1st half, following a 50yd fumble return?  If that is what you consider 'faltered massively', then I would please like to have that 'terrible' defense.

Then it was 42-28 late in the 4th?  Please Bortles never had to go 'toe-to-toe'--The Steelers were playing catch-up throughout the entire game; the got 'close' once in that game; the 1st drive of the 2nd half, but after that, it was pretty much game over the rest of the way.

[.Buzz]

7 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

Umm...the game where JAX was winning 28-7 with less than 2 minutes to go in the 1st half, following a 50yd fumble return?  If that is what you consider 'faltered massively', then I would please like to have that 'terrible' defense.

Then it was 42-28 late in the 4th?  Please Bortles never had to go 'toe-to-toe'--The Steelers were playing catch-up throughout the entire game; the got 'close' once in that game; the 1st drive of the 2nd half, but after that, it was pretty much game over the rest of the way.

You didn't watch that game if you think it was a blowout the entire time/Ben and co. weren't lighting the D up while definitely making the Jaguars offense do something if they indeed wanted to win. No doubt in my mind.

Toe to toe may not have been the best set of words, but they began a run and the defense was clearly out of sorts. If Blake and the O didnt continue to score/put the foot on the gas we aren't winning that game. Blake had a dagger of a drive to end what was about to be a pretty damn embarrassing collapse.

Either way, Blake played fantastic in that game and did what needed to be done as the Steelers did indeed mount a crazy comeback with a legit shot to win after they got down by a lot. He played great in the Patriots game as well and if not for a coaching staff going conservative when there was no reason to, likely is the AFC 's QB in the Super Bowl last year.

Blake clearly is done here, but what he did last season, especially down the stretch/in the playoffs, was pretty damn impressive.

[Ward4HOF]

1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

You didn't watch that game if you think it was a blowout the entire time/Ben and co. weren't lighting the D up while definitely making the Jaguars offense do something if they indeed wanted to win. No doubt in my mind.

Toe to toe may not have been the best set of words, but they began a run and the defense was clearly out of sorts. If Blake and the O didnt continue to score/put the foot on the gas we aren't winning that game. Blake had a dagger of a drive to end what was about to be a pretty damn embarrassing collapse.

Either way, Blake played fantastic in that game and did what needed to be done as the Steelers did indeed mount a crazy comeback with a legit shot to win after they got down by a lot. He played great in the Patriots game as well and if not for a coaching staff going conservative when there was no reason to, likely is the AFC 's QB in the Super Bowl last year.

Blake clearly is done here, but what he did last season, especially down the stretch/in the playoffs, was pretty damn impressive.

I never said that; where did I ever say the game was a "blowout the entire time."  A game doesn't have to be a blow out to be well in hand. What I WAS commenting on was your comment of:

"Or when the defense faltered massively against Pittsburgh in the playoffs and Bortles and the offense had to pretty much go shot for shot with them in the 2nd half?"

I was simply pointing out that in no way, shape, or form, did JAX defense 'falter massively' to the point where they had to go 'shot for shot' with them, as you alluded. 

Not to mention, Bortles statline was:  14/26 (53.8%) 214yds with 1TD -- that's not all-together that impressive, I'm sorry to say.

Ben's statline:   37/58 (63.7%)   469yds   5 TDS    1 INT, with a Passer Rating of 110, was far more impressive.  the only stat that matters is winning the game, of course, but my point is, to act like Bortles had this flawless game, and lit up the Steeler D, and he went 'Shot for Shot' with Ben, is highly over-stated.

And that 'dagger of a drive' you mention, where Bortles had two short pass completions, and the rest was Fournette and/or Yeldon's YAC, well again...overstated.

[.Buzz]

13 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

I never said that; where did I ever say the game was a "blowout the entire time."  A game doesn't have to be a blow out to be well in hand. What I WAS commenting on was your comment of:

"Or when the defense faltered massively against Pittsburgh in the playoffs and Bortles and the offense had to pretty much go shot for shot with them in the 2nd half?"

I was simply pointing out that in no way, shape, or form, did JAX defense 'falter massively' to the point where they had to go 'shot for shot' with them, as you alluded. 

Not to mention, Bortles statline was:  14/26 (53.8%) 214yds with 1TD -- that's not all-together that impressive, I'm sorry to say.

Ben's statline:   37/58 (63.7%)   469yds   5 TDS    1 INT, with a Passer Rating of 110, was far more impressive.  the only stat that matters is winning the game, of course, but my point is, to act like Bortles had this flawless game, and lit up the Steeler D, and he went 'Shot for Shot' with Ben, is highly over-stated.

And that 'dagger of a drive' you mention, where Bortles had two short pass completions, and the rest was Fournette and/or Yeldon's YAC, well again...overstated.

I already stated shot for shot was the wrong use of the term, so I'm not going to continue down that discussion. You're right. 

However, our defense definitely faltered massively and Big Ben's statline and being up 28-7 with less than 2 minutes before half and it ending up as being as close and nearly losing it shows that. To go with that, if the offense doesn't get off to a quick start and have success pretty much the whole game as Blake/the O did, we lose that game. The defense went to garbage, Big Ben had a heroic performance after a bad start and Blake played extremely well and helped cement a playoff win that not many people thought we had a chance in.

I really don't care how many passing yards/what his completion percentage was, he was fantastic in what he was asked to do and made plays when they needed to be made. That's what you look for and want at that stage of the season. If he has Ben's stat line but loses than what is the point?

He made big plays in big moments and didn't make any mistakes when the game was on the line/the momentum was clearly in PIT's favor. Was a great performance and likely a big reason why he was even kept/given an extension and why we didn't just roll with the 5th year option and figured out what we'd do with him after, as well as the NE game.

[Tugboat]

3 hours ago, .Buzz said:

You didn't watch that game if you think it was a blowout the entire time/Ben and co. weren't lighting the D up while definitely making the Jaguars offense do something if they indeed wanted to win. No doubt in my mind.

Toe to toe may not have been the best set of words, but they began a run and the defense was clearly out of sorts. If Blake and the O didnt continue to score/put the foot on the gas we aren't winning that game. Blake had a dagger of a drive to end what was about to be a pretty damn embarrassing collapse.

Either way, Blake played fantastic in that game and did what needed to be done as the Steelers did indeed mount a crazy comeback with a legit shot to win after they got down by a lot. He played great in the Patriots game as well and if not for a coaching staff going conservative when there was no reason to, likely is the AFC 's QB in the Super Bowl last year.

Blake clearly is done here, but what he did last season, especially down the stretch/in the playoffs, was pretty damn impressive.

Bortles was good in that game, he did what he needed to do and it was one of his best moments.  But there's kinda a difference between needing to "do something" on offense, compared to really "going toe-to-toe".  I mean, Ben was leading them back...where Bortles was spotted a big lead and really just had to do something half respectable to keep them ahead.  Which he did, but it's not like he mounted some great herculean comeback on his shoulders exactly.

[.Buzz]

3 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

Bortles was good in that game, he did what he needed to do and it was one of his best moments.  But there's kinda a difference between needing to "do something" on offense, compared to really "going toe-to-toe".  I mean, Ben was leading them back...where Bortles was spotted a big lead and really just had to do something half respectable to keep them ahead.  Which he did, but it's not like he mounted some great herculean comeback on his shoulders exactly.

Please see the 2nd paragraph.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

4 hours ago, .Buzz said:

You didn't watch that game if you think it was a blowout the entire time/Ben and co. weren't lighting the D up while definitely making the Jaguars offense do something if they indeed wanted to win. No doubt in my mind.

Toe to toe may not have been the best set of words, but they began a run and the defense was clearly out of sorts. If Blake and the O didnt continue to score/put the foot on the gas we aren't winning that game. Blake had a dagger of a drive to end what was about to be a pretty damn embarrassing collapse.

Either way, Blake played fantastic in that game and did what needed to be done as the Steelers did indeed mount a crazy comeback with a legit shot to win after they got down by a lot. He played great in the Patriots game as well and if not for a coaching staff going conservative when there was no reason to, likely is the AFC 's QB in the Super Bowl last year.

Blake clearly is done here, but what he did last season, especially down the stretch/in the playoffs, was pretty damn impressive.

I was at that freakin game and no matter what the scoreboard said, there was never a time it felt safe. The constantly were making big plays, they put Shazier up on the Jumbotron and the place went ballistic it was something that I expected to relive over and over again as some great storybook ending where Pittsburgh won

[Ward4HOF]

14 hours ago, .Buzz said:

I already stated shot for shot was the wrong use of the term, so I'm not going to continue down that discussion. You're right. 

However, our defense definitely faltered massively and Big Ben's statline and being up 28-7 with less than 2 minutes before half and it ending up as being as close and nearly losing it shows that. To go with that, if the offense doesn't get off to a quick start and have success pretty much the whole game as Blake/the O did, we lose that game. The defense went to garbage, Big Ben had a heroic performance after a bad start and Blake played extremely well and helped cement a playoff win that not many people thought we had a chance in.

I really don't care how many passing yards/what his completion percentage was, he was fantastic in what he was asked to do and made plays when they needed to be made. That's what you look for and want at that stage of the season. If he has Ben's stat line but loses than what is the point?

He made big plays in big moments and didn't make any mistakes when the game was on the line/the momentum was clearly in PIT's favor. Was a great performance and likely a big reason why he was even kept/given an extension and why we didn't just roll with the 5th year option and figured out what we'd do with him after, as well as the NE game.

Obviously, but most others, typically do, which is my point.  Hovering around 58% Comp % is NOT mistake free football.  Just because the defender isn't there to scoop up the misfire. His career rating is 81; Career Comp % 59% and a TD-to-INT % comp of nearly 4-3, is not good football, and never has been

And what big plays, exactly?  Two short passes in the game-clinching drive?

And yet, in the end, here we are...not but 10 games later, and he's benched. The overarching sentiment to all this being--Bortles just is not, and has not ever been, a very good QB.  He's 'OK'...he's like an Andy Dalton, but worse.  Bortles was being talked up to being the Jags savior; their QB of the Future for the last 3 years now, and all that's been heard and read on these forums by Jags fans, or Draft analysts that so badly want to be right about there prognostication that Bortles is going to be this great QB, is just that...that he's somehow, secretly, thei great QB, waiting to come out...like he's some Andrew Luck, or something.

IDK, maybe he is.  It only took Luck 6 years to figure out how to play in the NFL (oh, and here will come the Luck apologists...), maybe that's all Brtles needs...maybe he just needs 2 more years. But right now...up to this point...INCLUDING his playoff performances, have been just...OK.

Meanwhile, there's this guy out west, his team literally has gone in the crapper, and he's the only one playing worth a darn, and guess what, he's still kicking butt...no excuses...no 'my RB stinks' or 'my defense isn't good' or 'my OL is terrible'...all he does is perform, and there are people STILL out there, that refuse to believe in him and what he does...and STILL think that Luck is, and has been, the better QB...it's like Bizarro world. He got no respect when his team was good, and now, that hes even better, while his team is worse, he still fails to get the credit he deserves.

...and BTW, feel free to go back and look at my assessment of Wilson coming in; I went to that Senior Bowl, and to me, he looked awful. I thought he was a HORRIBLE pick by the Seahawks that year.  I was flat out wrong.  Wilson is a stud.  I know, I'm going off a tangent here, but my point is, so much time and breath is wasted on guys that just aren't very good, yet the good ones, can't seem to catch a break on this forum.  Maybe the tide has changed some over the past couple of years; I admittedly haven;t followed as closely as I used to, but I remember a couple of years back, and Wilson was still considered a scrub, who was only propped up by his 'good team'; guess all those posters were wrong about that too.

I don't have the evidence to corroborate what I'm about to say, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if sometime, in the last 3 years, there was a QB ranking list that had Bortles ranked higher than Wilson...or...a poster flat out stated that Bortles was better.  Am I wrong?  I'm just curious.

 

[.Buzz]

37 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said:

Obviously, but most others, typically do, which is my point.  Hovering around 58% Comp % is NOT mistake free football.  Just because the defender isn't there to scoop up the misfire. His career rating is 81; Career Comp % 59% and a TD-to-INT % comp of nearly 4-3, is not good football, and never has been

And what big plays, exactly?  Two short passes in the game-clinching drive?

And yet, in the end, here we are...not but 10 games later, and he's benched. The overarching sentiment to all this being--Bortles just is not, and has not ever been, a very good QB.  He's 'OK'...he's like an Andy Dalton, but worse.  Bortles was being talked up to being the Jags savior; their QB of the Future for the last 3 years now, and all that's been heard and read on these forums by Jags fans, or Draft analysts that so badly want to be right about there prognostication that Bortles is going to be this great QB, is just that...that he's somehow, secretly, thei great QB, waiting to come out...like he's some Andrew Luck, or something.

IDK, maybe he is.  It only took Luck 6 years to figure out how to play in the NFL (oh, and here will come the Luck apologists...), maybe that's all Brtles needs...maybe he just needs 2 more years. But right now...up to this point...INCLUDING his playoff performances, have been just...OK.

Meanwhile, there's this guy out west, his team literally has gone in the crapper, and he's the only one playing worth a darn, and guess what, he's still kicking butt...no excuses...no 'my RB stinks' or 'my defense isn't good' or 'my OL is terrible'...all he does is perform, and there are people STILL out there, that refuse to believe in him and what he does...and STILL think that Luck is, and has been, the better QB...it's like Bizarro world. He got no respect when his team was good, and now, that hes even better, while his team is worse, he still fails to get the credit he deserves.

...and BTW, feel free to go back and look at my assessment of Wilson coming in; I went to that Senior Bowl, and to me, he looked awful. I thought he was a HORRIBLE pick by the Seahawks that year.  I was flat out wrong.  Wilson is a stud.  I know, I'm going off a tangent here, but my point is, so much time and breath is wasted on guys that just aren't very good, yet the good ones, can't seem to catch a break on this forum.  Maybe the tide has changed some over the past couple of years; I admittedly haven;t followed as closely as I used to, but I remember a couple of years back, and Wilson was still considered a scrub, who was only propped up by his 'good team'; guess all those posters were wrong about that too.

I don't have the evidence to corroborate what I'm about to say, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if sometime, in the last 3 years, there was a QB ranking list that had Bortles ranked higher than Wilson...or...a poster flat out stated that Bortles was better.  Am I wrong?  I'm just curious.

 

No one here nor is the contract we gave him showing he's a good QB. 

He was average last year and played mistake free football/made plays when we needed him to down the stretch. He got paid like a middle of the road QB on a short term contract. They gave him a short contract because they clearly weren't sold long term on him, but the play was solid and unlikely to be upgraded unless you paid Cousins last year. So they gave him a stopgap level contract/easy out if he doesn't work out...

Literally all I've said is he was solid last year while playing big down the stretch/big in the playoffs...which he did.

Everyone knows going into last year he was close to being cut/out the door. He was nearly benched after the preseason. So I don't know why you're bringing up his career numbers. All I'm talking about was last year after the coaching staff altered him into a game manager rather than gunslinger like he was previously given the chance to do.