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Jaguars bench QB Bortles, starting Kessler week 13

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On 12/2/2018 at 2:02 AM, Tugboat said:

As a Jaguars fan...i wouldn't take a single one of those backs over Fournette.

Yes, it's frustrating that he seems to be prone to getting dinged up and either missing time or playing at less than 100%.  But when he's healthy, he's an absolute difference-maker.  He does things that not one of those other guys can do.

People just want to keep looking at Fournette's results and compare them to other guys without any context at all.  Those other guys are all in far more specialized situations with massively better offensive supporting casts around them.  Leonard Fournette, when healthy...literally is the Jaguars offense.  He consistently faces 8 man boxes, heck...sometimes even see 9 man boxes where the other team basically just lines up and waits for us to hand the ball to Fournette.  And he still makes yards, behind a very mediocre at best OLine too.

That you'd even casually question whether a completely specialized niche player like Cohen is a better RB than Fournette just really shows you don't have a clue.

There are so many examples of Dave Caldwell's pathetic drafting to lean on.  Fournette is about the last thing i'd point at, next to Jalen (which was pretty much a no-brainer pick by most accounts).  Caldwell has screwed up pretty much all the rest of his many top draft picks, and hasn't really saved himself with particularly good later round drafting or anything either...but i wouldn't put Fournette in that category.  Other than the health issues, he's been pretty much everything he was drafted to be (and a better jumper and receiver than he was touted as to boot).

i would say hes Missed becsause well he passed on both watson and mahomes for fournette and while fournettes been solid it is a QB League and Bortles isnt a good passer

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On 12/2/2018 at 11:54 PM, SteelKing728 said:

Would you rather have Cody Kessler, Deshone Kizer or Kevin Hogan?

 

Kessler. right now

Kizer if you want to deelop someone

If you want to run the wild cat. 

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2 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

i would say hes Missed becsause well he passed on both watson and mahomes for fournette and while fournettes been solid it is a QB League and Bortles isnt a good passer

That's really just double-dipping on how bad a miss Bortles was though.  Which is where the criticism actually ought to be most focused (along with Joeckel and Fowler, and a ton of the other later picks).

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11 hours ago, Tugboat said:

The thing is, McCaffrey wouldn't do as much to take pressure off a guy like Bortles, because even that part of the passing game is a struggle.  So you'd be neutralizing a big part of his game.  In that situation, it'd also be a lot harder to get that sort of guy a variety of touches, get him the ball outside and in space.  The middle where Fournette is money, far more so than McCaffrey...is consistently loaded up because teams don't respect Bortles like they do Cam (as a passer or a runner).  That's the sort of thing where a back like Fournette can, and was the focal point of an offense that stunk it's way all the way to an AFC Championship game.  With McCaffrey...Cam is the focal point, and it's not even a question.

I wouldn't take McCaffrey over Fournette.  

 

The health is certainly an issue.  Health with RBs can be all over the place though.  It certainly appears as though it's more of a concern with Fournette...but any one of those other guys could have a hamstring issue or something that keeps them out for 6 weeks at any moment really.  I mean, look at Hunt who seemed like a good durable back...but his availability/reliability has turned out to be pretty darn poor too.  He's not doing anyone any good, even without a nagging soft tissue injury.  Stuff happens.  And really...i haven't heard anything at all about Fournette's ankle stuff (that was the issue in college).  It's hard to hang a "bust" tag on a pick that's been pretty phenomenal when on the field, after less than 2 years.

Certainly hard to call a bust of a pick compared to the actual legitimate busts Caldwell has picked.  Guys who aren't on the team anymore, and some of whom didn't even make it to the end of rookie deals with the team.

 

Kamara is the same problem as McCaffrey in the Jaguars situation.  He's not a focal point.  Drew Brees is a HOF QB focal point, and Kamara is a terrific weapon in support of that...when tag-teaming with an actual power back in Engram who also does yeoman's work with a lot of the ugly stuff, to allow Kamara to really thrive.

 

I don't think a lot of people seem to grasp just how extensively it's meant when Jaguars fans suggest that Bortles practically is the Jaguars entire offense when healthy.  It's like when people mention that McCaffrey is always on the field this year.  They both sound like totally exaggerated claims, but they're both equally true.

Regardless of who the focus point in each offense is or how they well they fit Jax, they are both still better than Fournette by a clear margin.

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6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

That's really just double-dipping on how bad a miss Bortles was though.  Which is where the criticism actually ought to be most focused (along with Joeckel and Fowler, and a ton of the other later picks).

to be fair with Joeckel almost everyone had him as a top 5 prospect. dont know why it didnt work out like it should be u know the draft is a crapshoot. 

fowler i was pissed on from the moment it was announced. i felt leonard williams was better then and his play in the nfl has backed it up. i wasnt a fan of fowler cuz he didnt seem to be a Natural pass rusher. 

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3 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

to be fair with Joeckel almost everyone had him as a top 5 prospect. dont know why it didnt work out like it should be u know the draft is a crapshoot. 

fowler i was pissed on from the moment it was announced. i felt leonard williams was better then and his play in the nfl has backed it up. i wasnt a fan of fowler cuz he didnt seem to be a Natural pass rusher. 

Gosh, seems like I remember reading last year a lot of Jags' fans singing the praises of Dante "The Inferno" Fowler?

pwny

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This Jaguars defense is littered with guys playing out of their minds. Based solely on this year alone, I think there’s an argument for them having 8 guys who are all playing as the best at their position in the league.

Best EDGE1 - Calais Campbell

Best EDGE2 - Yannick Ngakoue

Best EDGE3 - Dante Fowler

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14 minutes ago, bzane said:

Gosh, seems like I remember reading last year a lot of Jags' fans singing the praises of Dante "The Inferno" Fowler?

pwny

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This Jaguars defense is littered with guys playing out of their minds. Based solely on this year alone, I think there’s an argument for them having 8 guys who are all playing as the best at their position in the league.

Best EDGE1 - Calais Campbell

Best EDGE2 - Yannick Ngakoue

Best EDGE3 - Dante Fowler

Listing Fowler as the best 3rd edge on any team around the legue is singing the guys prasies? IDK about that, as a backup edge he was pretty damn good.

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8 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Listing Fowler as the best 3rd edge on any team around the legue is singing the guys prasies? IDK about that, as a backup edge he was pretty damn good.

Yeah.  Fowler was like Top-30 in the league for sacks last year, with a couple forced fumbles too...while playing as a rotational #3 Defensive End.  I don't think it's a stretch to say he might've been playing like the best 3rd string edge rusher in the league last year.

That's a very different thing than saying he was totally living up to his draft position.  He wasn't drafted that high to be a rotational pass rusher.  Pretty big disappointment relative to his draft position, not even finishing out his rookie contract with the team that drafted him.  But i still can't think of many teams that had a guy with that kind of pedigree and production as their 3rd edge player.

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