Jaguars bench QB Bortles, starting Kessler week 13

[SteelKing728]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:15 PM, MWil23 said:

I was ridiculed by Jaguars fans for my takes all last year on Blake Bortles and was pretty merciless to the Jaguars FO for extending this guy.

Can I ridicule you for using Colbert? The only thing funny about him is his funny bone. Politics aside, He's unbearable and boring.

[MWil23]

6 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

Can I ridicule you for using Colbert? The only thing funny about him is his funny bone. Politics aside, He's unbearable and boring.

I think there’s a rule somewhere that if you support 2 NFL teams in your username you’re disqualified for making fun of anyone.

[SteelKing728]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

I think there’s a rule somewhere that if you support 2 NFL teams in your username you’re disqualified for making fun of anyone.

I haven't supported that one team in a long time, friend. The only thing I like about them is James Conner and Antonio Brown.

[Tugboat]

12 hours ago, Ward4HOF said:

Obviously, but most others, typically do, which is my point.  Hovering around 58% Comp % is NOT mistake free football.  Just because the defender isn't there to scoop up the misfire. His career rating is 81; Career Comp % 59% and a TD-to-INT % comp of nearly 4-3, is not good football, and never has been

And what big plays, exactly?  Two short passes in the game-clinching drive?

And yet, in the end, here we are...not but 10 games later, and he's benched. The overarching sentiment to all this being--Bortles just is not, and has not ever been, a very good QB.  He's 'OK'...he's like an Andy Dalton, but worse.  Bortles was being talked up to being the Jags savior; their QB of the Future for the last 3 years now, and all that's been heard and read on these forums by Jags fans, or Draft analysts that so badly want to be right about there prognostication that Bortles is going to be this great QB, is just that...that he's somehow, secretly, thei great QB, waiting to come out...like he's some Andrew Luck, or something.

IDK, maybe he is.  It only took Luck 6 years to figure out how to play in the NFL (oh, and here will come the Luck apologists...), maybe that's all Brtles needs...maybe he just needs 2 more years. But right now...up to this point...INCLUDING his playoff performances, have been just...OK.

Meanwhile, there's this guy out west, his team literally has gone in the crapper, and he's the only one playing worth a darn, and guess what, he's still kicking butt...no excuses...no 'my RB stinks' or 'my defense isn't good' or 'my OL is terrible'...all he does is perform, and there are people STILL out there, that refuse to believe in him and what he does...and STILL think that Luck is, and has been, the better QB...it's like Bizarro world. He got no respect when his team was good, and now, that hes even better, while his team is worse, he still fails to get the credit he deserves.

...and BTW, feel free to go back and look at my assessment of Wilson coming in; I went to that Senior Bowl, and to me, he looked awful. I thought he was a HORRIBLE pick by the Seahawks that year.  I was flat out wrong.  Wilson is a stud.  I know, I'm going off a tangent here, but my point is, so much time and breath is wasted on guys that just aren't very good, yet the good ones, can't seem to catch a break on this forum.  Maybe the tide has changed some over the past couple of years; I admittedly haven;t followed as closely as I used to, but I remember a couple of years back, and Wilson was still considered a scrub, who was only propped up by his 'good team'; guess all those posters were wrong about that too.

I don't have the evidence to corroborate what I'm about to say, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if sometime, in the last 3 years, there was a QB ranking list that had Bortles ranked higher than Wilson...or...a poster flat out stated that Bortles was better.  Am I wrong?  I'm just curious.

 

There were certainly a handful of Jaguars fans who were hitting that Bortles kool-aid way too hard after last season/the playoff run where he had stretches that he was mostly decent.  But i think you're getting outraged and defensive over something that isn't altogether grounded in reality.

I don't think there's a Jaguars fan alive, who wouldn't have traded Bortles for Russell Wilson at the drop of a hat, without batting an eye, at any point during Bortles career.  No take backs.

 

Wilson had a really nice comfy introduction to the league, with everything pretty well tailored to make his job easier.  Elite defense, run game, not asked to throw the ball 50 times a game, etc.  Everything you could want to lean on.  But he was always better, even in that...than Bortles trying to be shoehorned into that same role.  And it's been abundantly clear for quite a few years now, that Wilson is capable of a lot more than just managing a game like that...as he's been asked to do more and more, to the point that he basically had to take that entire Seahawks offense on his back last year.  Which is something Bortles has never, and never will ever come close to doing in any capacity.

 

 

Are you maybe mistaking it for the slagging Mariota has tended to take when Bortles was getting trashed in the offseason?  Because that's definitely been a thing.  And frankly...while Bortles has regressed again to the point that he flat out sucks and shouldn't be playing NFL snaps...Mariota isn't exactly proving to be much of anything good either.  But neither of them is even in remotely the same discussion as Russell Wilson, who is more frequently mentioned as being at least on the fringes of that elite group of Brady/Brees/Rodgers and the other fringe guys like Ben/Rivers/etc. than among the replacement level or worse guys like Bortles and Mariota.

[Kiwibrown]

I liked Kessler, he sees the field well and is extremely accurate.

He doesn't have the mobility, arm strength and is too fragile to be a genuine qb1. 

[Kiwibrown]

Bale Bortles is one of the most inconsistent QBs I have ever seen with accuracy, sometimes he is decent and then other times he misses by miles. 

What's up with that?

[Oregon Ducks]

I told ya'll he was a JAG. *shrug emoji*

-OD

[N4L]

1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said:

Bale Bortles is one of the most inconsistent QBs I have ever seen with accuracy, sometimes he is decent and then other times he misses by miles. 

What's up with that?

It's his release. He has a weird hitch in it that is very inconsistent. 

If you aren't accurate with your ball placement, it's very hard to be a good QB in the NFL. The windows are so small and don't stay open for long. 

Hard to be accurate with unnecessary movement in your release

[.Buzz]

5 hours ago, N4L said:

It's his release. He has a weird hitch in it that is very inconsistent. 

If you aren't accurate with your ball placement, it's very hard to be a good QB in the NFL. The windows are so small and don't stay open for long. 

Hard to be accurate with unnecessary movement in your release

Ding ding ding.

He also relies on confidence and it's been shot since early in the season. It almost looks like he has the yips right now. Like, it's really bad.

[Ward4HOF]

21 hours ago, .Buzz said:

No one here nor is the contract we gave him showing he's a good QB. 

He was average last year and played mistake free football/made plays when we needed him to down the stretch. He got paid like a middle of the road QB on a short term contract. They gave him a short contract because they clearly weren't sold long term on him, but the play was solid and unlikely to be upgraded unless you paid Cousins last year. So they gave him a stopgap level contract/easy out if he doesn't work out...

Literally all I've said is he was solid last year while playing big down the stretch/big in the playoffs...which he did.

Everyone knows going into last year he was close to being cut/out the door. He was nearly benched after the preseason. So I don't know why you're bringing up his career numbers. All I'm talking about was last year after the coaching staff altered him into a game manager rather than gunslinger like he was previously given the chance to do.

Naw, man, not you.  Sorry. I shouldn't have implied you were in that mix.  You seem fairly reasonable. But make no mistake--it happened, hence, the 5th or 6th response to the OP.  There were threads, posts, opinions--everything--on this forum about how Bortles was better than his numbers suggested, and it was excuse after excuse, or again, my favorite...the 'eye test', or 'mechanics', blah, blah...sorry, if the results aren't there, and yes, those are exhibited via STATS, then, as they say, 'it never happened'. 

Okay, everyone...TL;DR (Don't Read) from this point on, unless you want to hear my philosophy on excuses--Read at your own leisure (READ: risk). Go freshen up your coffee!!!

Why do we all think Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Marino, etc., are considered the all-time greats??  Because their play resulted in wins, and stats, and sorry, Bortles first Playoff appearance was last year.  Great, he's 2-1, with 3 TDs over 3 games.  Hate to say it, but that is 'game management' and not screwing up too much.  His Completion % still was pretty mediocre.

He played the #4, #30, and #32 ranked defense last year in the playoffs, and you can tell who he played and when...

Against Buffalo, the #4 D?  12/23, 87 yds (3.8 YPA...oof) 1 TD/0 INT, Rating 75.8

So, to say he played 'solid' last year in the Playoffs, is well, not accurate, IMO.  He played very 'meh' against the #30 Defense, and a little better against the #32 ranked defense. 

But back to my main point, is the Bortles was hyped up a lot over the past 2-3 years...undeservedly...right along side Andrew Luck.  Of course, the Luck Fan-Boys will all come out of the wood-work and say "See, I told you so...EYE-TEST...MECHANICS!!"  Which to that I say, fantastic...glad he's FINALLY using them appropriately.  "But, But, he had a great year in 2014!!"  Yeah, and then he regressed for 3 years...in the meantime, other QBs, who had to face the same issues...no defensive support (Ben/Brady/Brees), or a Poor OL (Wilson's dealt with this his entire career and yet, he's been evenly successful...huh, that's weird...and to think, he's done all this while being 5'10.5" tall, so basically, without the benefit of being naturally large and strong--he must have had to work really hard...)

Anyway, I'm going down a rabbit hole, sorry.  Point is Bortles was 'propped up' on this forum for the past few years by some of the so-called forum QB/Draft experts or Jags fans, and again, it was excuse after excuse, useless metric after useless metric, in an attempt to 'prove' that Bortles was on his way to being a top 10 QB (or already was), and they were obviously wrong.  It happens.  I'm wrong 75% of the time...some here probably feel that number is closer to 90%, but so far, I've done pretty well since Wilson's 2nd season, when I became a believer, and Bortles was being hyped way-to-high...oh, and this little gem...I'm sorry, I can't get enough it...this was Aug 2017...

Quote

Julio is firmly #1 imo. I know a few other people on this thread agree. You keep pointing to Browns "vastly" superior numbers when in all actuality they're not that much better outside of the TDs.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            He didn't even make it outside of the sentence before the excuses and rationalizing started coming into the debate...

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about.  If one has to immediately start adding 'qualifiers' to the debate, then IMO, you've already lost.  Every NFL player has issues they have to deal with--get over it (not you...just in general).

Here's a perfect case in point.   Ben hasn't had a decent defense since 2013 ; in fact, the team was 13th overall, then faltered to tied for worst with the Saints at 411yds/gm...(Saints technically were 32, Steelers 31st), yet somehow, 2014 was one of Ben's best seasons ever.  Last year, AB and Bell were an unbelievable combo, and both were 1st Tm All-Pros (That "firmly #1" guy above??  Yeah, 3rd in voting with 5 votes out of 50...while AB was a unanimous selection with 50/50 votes...) .  Anyway, why are Ben's numbers up, across the board, this season???  Higher Comp %, More TDs, higher YPA and Passer Rating...

 

Excuses are just that...excuses. Ultimately, the Stats will show the true story...not after one game, but eventually, the truth comes out...

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                   

[bzane]

1 hour ago, Ward4HOF said:

Anyway, I'm going down a rabbit hole, sorry.  Point is Bortles was 'propped up' on this forum for the past few years by some of the so-called forum QB/Draft experts or Jags fans, and again, it was excuse after excuse, useless metric after useless metric, in an attempt to 'prove' that Bortles was on his way to being a top 10 QB (or already was), and they were obviously wrong

Truer words were never spoken.

Years of the Jaguar Fan-Boys blaming everything other than Bortles himself; throwing up Selective Statistics, garbage-time passing stats, assuring that time with a good "mechanics" coach would cure all of Blake's woes; so shrill and frantic were some of the Bortles defenders, and so often cited were Blake's good-guy demeanor, community spirit, and manly virtues that one suspected a couple of creepy Man-Crushes at work here. All the wall-hung posters and special shrines to Blake Bortles that these guys have in their bed-rooms do not make the man a good quarterback.

[SkippyX]

Like everyone else, I am often wrong when I try to make predictions on a 100 aspects of football.

I completely nailed the Jags being a fake team based on those 5 games last year vs Kizer, Yates, Savage, and Brissett x2.

They are 27th in sacks this year which is right in line with how they performed in those other 11 games. (33 sacks in those 5 joke games and 22 in the other 11 games)

• 21 sacks in 11 real games last year and 22 sacks in 11 real games this year.
• 44 million dollars for the 27th best pass rush 

Even Bortles was 13 TDs 13 picks outside of those 5 games.

They are who we thought they were.

 

People got so upset and offended that anyone dared to challenge the supremacy of the mighty Jags. 

The Bortles extension would have been like if Houston extended Osweiler AFTER seeing how awful he was.

Buffalo fans should be thrilled that their team helped get that Marrone coward fired this year.

[.Buzz]

5 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Like everyone else, I am often wrong when I try to make predictions on a 100 aspects of football.

I completely nailed the Jags being a fake team based on those 5 games last year vs Kizer, Yates, Savage, and Brissett x2.

They are 27th in sacks this year which is right in line with how they performed in those other 11 games. (33 sacks in those 5 joke games and 22 in the other 11 games)

• 21 sacks in 11 real games last year and 22 sacks in 11 real games this year.
• 44 million dollars for the 27th best pass rush 

Even Bortles was 13 TDs 13 picks outside of those 5 games.

They are who we thought they were.

 

People got so upset and offended that anyone dared to challenge the supremacy of the mighty Jags. 

The Bortles extension would have been like if Houston extended Osweiler AFTER seeing how awful he was.

Buffalo fans should be thrilled that their team helped get that Marrone coward fired this year.

Marrone is NOT the problem in this situation. No idea how you say all you do and point at the guy that showed he didn't believe in him at multiple points last year and turned him into a game manager.

That's on the GM who is still in the building that drafted Joeckel, Fowler, Bortles, etc. and talked Coughlin (who also deserves blame) into giving him a chance/the extension. 

[SkippyX]

1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

Marrone is NOT the problem in this situation. No idea how you say all you do and point at the guy that showed he didn't believe in him at multiple points last year and turned him into a game manager.

That's on the GM who is still in the building that drafted Joeckel, Fowler, Bortles, etc. and talked Coughlin (who also deserves blame) into giving him a chance/the extension. 

I agree on the GM. He should be fired.

Here's another example:

Fournette was such an awful pick. He is even worse this year in every way (health, ypc, attitude)

There are 4 backs clearly better than Fournette drafted in 2017

• McCaffery
• Jones
• Kamara
• Conner

The jury is out on Hunt (pun intended)but he is clearly a better NFL player than Fournette.

Cohen may be better since the NFL has changed to a pass-happy league.

There were also 2 generational talents at QB in Mahomes and Watson that they passed up.

 

Marrone filled his underpants and ran off the field with 55 seconds and 2 timeouts left in the half of an AFCCG.

He has now coached this 2018 clown fire to 3-8.

He gets fired too.

 

 

[.Buzz]

22 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

I agree on the GM. He should be fired.

Here's another example:

Fournette was such an awful pick. He is even worse this year in every way (health, ypc, attitude)

There are 4 backs clearly better than Fournette drafted in 2017

• McCaffery
• Jones
• Kamara
• Conner

The jury is out on Hunt (pun intended)but he is clearly a better NFL player than Fournette.

Cohen may be better since the NFL has changed to a pass-happy league.

There were also 2 generational talents at QB in Mahomes and Watson that they passed up.

 

Marrone filled his underpants and ran off the field with 55 seconds and 2 timeouts left in the half of an AFCCG.

He has now coached this 2018 clown fire to 3-8.

He gets fired too.

 

 

Watch the last two games in which Fournette has been healthy. The guy has battled injuries time and time again and has had to run into consistent 8-9 men boxes due to average/below average QB play since he's been here. I'm not sure what you're expecting him to do. He may end up not working out but it isn't based on talent. The guy is insane when he's healthy. But he hasn't been able to figure that out so far. Couldn't forecast that, although he had injury troubles (ankle troubles) at LSU.

Have those 4 RB's you listed run into boxes like Fournette has been given and let's see what they do. 

Marrone got ridiculed for going conservative in the NE game, deservedly so. But I'm not firing him unless you want a new GM to pick his own guy. He led us to our first playoff appearance and hope for this franchise in a decade in his first year as HC. You don't can a guy that turns things around like that a year after when the QB goes to trash and you have this many injuries. We're on our 4th string LT, our C and LG are out for the year (although they were more recent). Fournette just got back a couple weeks ago after being out most of the season. We're missing our #1 WR and #1 TE since the season began. 

Injuries are a part of the game, but I'm not putting this on Marrone. I do think he failed on his coordinator hires, but he took this franchise to a near SB appearance his first year like I said. You don't fire him a year later...