The Good, The Bad, The Defense vs. Rams

[RaidersAreOne]

Good:

• Seeing Carr suit up for us again and slinging the ball downfield
• Cooper's catch was phenomenal (between 3 defenders)
• Crabtree destroyed that dudes ankles on his TD run
• Our O finished with 100% RZ efficiency (3 for 3)
• Lynch looked quick, decisive and a pain to tackle
• Lee Smith showed good hands on his TD catch
• Khalil Mack picking up where he left off from his DPOY season
• Connor Cook looked poised
• MLB Morrow had a very good game and was all over the field
• S Ciofilli (#37) was laying the wood late in the game
• Marquette King as usual (2 punts within their 20)

Bad:

• Run D. Gurley was gashing us for easy runs and constantly dragging our defenders
• EJ Manuel looked poor
• Their starting O-line held Mack the majority of the time, and we never saw a flag for it

Ugly:

• OUR DEFENSE
• Can't stop the pass to save our lives
• KNJ in general
• Miscommunications within our entire secondary was noticeable as well (Goff's TD to Kupp was WIDE OPEN)
• TJ Carrie got absolutely abused by rookie Kupp
• #60 diving at the Rams defenders leg well after the play

 

I am really, REALLY getting sick and tired of fielding a horrendous Defense. It's just pre-season yes, but our starters vs. their starters got absolutely abused for the most part. I am going to be furious if we waste another potential SB run due to having bush league coaching and execution on defense. I love continuity with regards to scheme and staff, but in this case a change has to be made soon. KNJ is in over his head and our players are constantly out of position or put in a position that won't let them succeed. These blow coverages/assignments are unacceptable for a D full of veterans and a scheme that has been in place for 3 years. Absolutely unacceptable. You better believe JDR is getting nervous about the D because it's ultimately his head that may roll for his incompetence to field a good D. I expect Pagano to step in for KNJ sooner rather than later.

[big_palooka]

D full of veterans?

 

Aside from Nelson, Smith, Irvin.... pretty young group.

But you're 100% correct. The defense is not looking promising. You have the DPOY and the unit can't stop anything on the back end. No interior push. And to address the elephant in the room. Lee isn't going to cut it at LB. He can't cover, which is why he was 5th round pick. 

Getting realllllllly old watching this staff try to fill MLB in hopes of them prgoressing.

 

[holyghost]

It's not entirely coaching. I agree Norton has no place being our Coordinator. He's outcoached in-game and out gameplanned every week, consistently.

But reviewing our starting seoncdary, it's not a stretch to see the results we are seeing. Nelson is past his due date. Joseph has not shown anything against the pass thus far. Amerson is a cast off playing back towards his level. Smith is a huge CB lacking speed and past 30. All 4 of them are bottom half of the league in terms of play against the pass. Put them all together and you have a low quality unit with nothing exceptional happening, no leader, and no glue. Put those guys with this coordinator and you have a poor unit underperforming their average to marginal talent level. Add it all up and it's one of the worst if not the worst back end in football.

Why do you think we drafted secondary 1st AND 2nd round?! Believe me, pre-draft, as bad as the LB corps looks on paper, we're actually worse in the secondary. If conley pans out as a 1st rounder worthy of his draft status, it will help alot in the long run. If they both pan out this may become a good unit. Once Norton is moved out. 

Jeez, I mean we're paying 20 mil to our starting corners and they look to not be able to cover anything consistently. They were desperation signings then and they are now.  The effects of how utterly gutted this team was a few years ago are still being felt. 

[G]

UGLY:   Defense

Seeing the DB's makes me want Obi at CB. At least we can expect Him and Conley to improve but the guys there now are at their ability or on the decline. 

Run D?!? Tennessee will pound it down our throats...I'm willing to give up our 3rd for DT Richardson for a 1 year rental and get the comp pick. 3-4 with Pags isn't going to wait til next season. i like Norton but he needs more time/experience before next DC position. I'd rather demote than fire as I think his passion and ability to connect is valuable. We pay him if fired so why not keep him. Just have to pay Pags more for the promotion. The Defense can't get much worse so not worried about chemistry. Last year we'd get a stop here and there with a big play turnover but now it looks like any team will just dink and dunk right down the field and hope their D can keep us from TD's

Bad: Did we win?!? I stopped watching at 10pm when the guy got injured.

Good: Offense is top 5 if not #1 when healthy. Penn not needed to score TD's. Addition by subtraction and promotion. Todd looking good. I expected him to leave for OC job but luckily we gave him that chance and with Carr he'll be in HC conversations in 3 seasons. If we haven't gotten over the hump with JDR, Todd might find his HC job in Vegas...I like JDR but D cords becoming HC's are expected to have good D's...I wouldn't let Todd leave if Offense is firing on all cylinders and it looks like he'll be a HC elsewhere. The good about that is a manager should be proud that those below rise high. You don't want them to replace you but it shows you can get the right talent sometimes. 

 

[reddevil]

Agreed about Downing. There has been a nice rhythm to the offense and there were barely any plays which had you scratching your head a la Musgrave.

I'm not as concerned at the moment by our LB play as I am with our CBs. I think James looked okay after looking good last week - definitely improved and hopefully an improvement on Smith last year at WLB.  The MLB spot is up in the air but I still think there is a chance that between Lee, Jenkins, Adams and even Morrow we could chance on an adequate solution. That's not to say the FO shouldn't have done more to address the problem.

Our current starting CBs are a mess. I've never quite understood the love for Carrie that some have. At best he has performed okay in a handful of games but the whole time he has been here, I can't remember a consistent run by him. Just doesn't have any obvious areas of real quality. When he played his best - as a rookie, he was doing things on special teams and in the return game which added to his value. The fact he can play safety and has some versatility gives him leeway, but as an out and out CB he looks very average and last night he was totally lost out there. Rabbit in headlights. Smith looks slow and I don't know what has happened to Amerson. Hopefully Conley can replace one of these guys quick smart.

[SilverNBlackFan]

We do praise Joseph alot, but HolyGhost is right - the guy really hasn't shown to be a positive player in coverage. He still has alot of time to show that, but if he ends up being just a hard tackler and box guy, I will be pretty dissapointed.

[Jerry]

Did Breon Borders play?  I read an article a week or two ago saying he was practicing with the first team.  Did he get a chance to play this week or is he injured?  If he happens to be the diamond in the rough that the article is making him out to be and both Conley and Melifonwu pan out, we may end up with a really good secondary later on this season or maybe by next year.

[RaiderX]

How long before the "Downing for HC" requests happen. Never looks good when a Defensive minded HC's defensive unit gets abused by a 2nd QB who has yet to win a game.

Really hope Conley gets going and seeing some of Borders.

[RaidersAreOne]

6 minutes ago, RaiderX said:

How long before the "Downing for HC" requests happen. Never looks good when a Defensive minded HC's defensive unit gets abused by a 2nd QB who has yet to win a game.

Really hope Conley gets going and seeing some of Borders.

Knowing our fan base, probably after our first loss.

To be honest though I think Downing will/is being groomed to be our next HC. We all knew JDR was the perfect coach for a rebuild but potentially not one to bring us to the Super Bowl. Depending on how our O performs this year and next, JDR could find himself replaced by Downing if we are one and done or under performing in the playoffs a couple years in a row.

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Jerry said:

Did Breon Borders play?  I read an article a week or two ago saying he was practicing with the first team.  Did he get a chance to play this week or is he injured?  If he happens to be the diamond in the rough that the article is making him out to be and both Conley and Melifonwu pan out, we may end up with a really good secondary later on this season or maybe by next year.

8 snaps I read. Not sure if he leveled off or they are just getting a better look at the group. Lee's snap count dropped significantly as well.

Conley and Obi need to get straight. They are unknowns right now. Defense is certainly not worth getting excited about right now.

[TheMadStork]

On 8/20/2017 at 10:47 AM, SilverNBlackFan said:

We do praise Joseph alot, but HolyGhost is right - the guy really hasn't shown to be a positive player in coverage. He still has alot of time to show that, but if he ends up being just a hard tackler and box guy, I will be pretty dissapointed.

Exactly..people are soo quick to think these guys are great just because they are first rounders..Karl Joseph still has a lot to show me.

i know Carrie has had a couple tough showings in these two preseason games; but game one I'm not too sure that some of those blown coverages weren't Karl Joseph fault..

and this last game, Cooper Kupp looks pretty decent and goff had such a clean pocket to throw perfect balls..

 

im most concerned with our inability to generate any push up the middle and our linebackers.. the way we're looking, we might not even make playoffs

[MrOaktown_56]

So Carrie sucks because when he's playing man and supposed to have outside leverage, no one helps him inside?

Aside from the coverage bust he wasn't good,, but the scheme needs to help people in the slot as opposed to giving receivers an easy in/out cut with no help.

 

E.G. watch 3:15 below. Who's in the middle to help there?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F-vdwzFQOk

[OakRaiders3828]

2 hours ago, TheMadStork said:

Exactly..people are soo quick to think these guys are great just because they are first rounders..Karl Joseph still has a lot to show me.

i know Carrie has had a couple tough showings in these two preseason games; but game one I'm not too sure that some of those blown coverages weren't Karl Joseph fault..

and this last game, Cooper Kupp looks pretty decent and goff had such a clean pocket to throw perfect balls..

 

im most concerned with our inability to generate any push up the middle and our linebackers.. the way we're looking, we might not even make playoffs

We're relying on a few young guys at LB and interior rush, let's give them more than  a few exhibition games before jumping off a cliff 

[OakRaiders3828]

Remember when the offense sucked last year in pre season? Good times 

 

the one one thing I agree with though, is that KNJ has got to go. Hand Pagano the keys 

[TheMadStork]

16 minutes ago, OakRaiders3828 said:

Remember when the offense sucked last year in pre season? Good times 

 

the one one thing I agree with though, is that KNJ has got to go. Hand Pagano the keys 

Yes and yes. I remember being very concerned about our offense AND defense. And the offense played amazing and the defense was way better than I thought.

Yes I'm ready to move on from KNJ, and I have always been a advocate of trying to give him more time...but to play devils advocate..our DTs suck. Mario Edwards included (always liked him more at end) and Vanderdose has not impressed me in preseason so far. I will hold out hope that they will imprI've. BUT Lee, I don't think I'm going willing to go through the growing pains that look like will come with him as a starter. I'd be looking for a Vet that gets cut.