Week 13 GDT: Do we really have to go to Seattle?

[Forge]

13 minutes ago, N4L said:

He certainly has a proven track record for acquiring talent. He partially built our playoff rosters, he helped build seattle's championship teams, he made Washington a complete team, and Cleveland had a great draft this year. 

If nothing else, maybe he can help school our front office/GM with how to evaluate players and what he looks for. He has real GM experience, which is something we are lacking. Our GM has never worked in a front office before he was hired here. I do think that makes a difference. 

Maybe one offseason with Scotty helps us the next 3+ years as we can learn from him and apply his thought process down the road. We could also get the jump on the following draft and keep an eye on certain guys who are set to come out in 2020.

Seems like a good move all around, regardless of what we do with our coaching staff. 

But what makes you think we need any help? It's too early for me to say that we can't draft or this regime struggles inthat regard. Yes, Thomas appears to be a bust, or at least on that trajectory, but it's not over yet, and if we move him inside permanently, maybe we fix that. Foster was worth the risk. Yes, it didn't work out, but that's not from a talent evaluation standpoint. 

I do wish that we hadn't taken a chance on CJ with that pick, but I get it (with Hoyer and Barkley, we obviously had to have someone to groom ), so that at least made sense even though I didn't think cj was draftable lol. Joe Williams was a bust, but we hit on Breida as a UDFA in the same class. Trent Taylor was fine before the back injuries; not sure if that will derail his career or not, but it's too early to say for sure. Obviously was a niche role player, but that's pretty solid in round 5, so I'm not going to completely hate on that. And if the back does derail his career, it's not an issue with talent evaluations. Colbert was a solid pick. Kittle is great. Witherspoon has certainly had some major ups and downs this year, but too early to call it quits there, especially with him getting hosed on a few penalties the last few weeks. Pita looks like he won't be much, but a 6th round pick, so whatever. Most aren't. DJ Jones looks like he could have a role moving forward, which isn't bad for a fifth round pick. Yes, some of this class has lost its shine, but way too early to say for sure that it's a problem with the FO's evaluations. It's a mixed bag so far, which is how all drafts largely are. 

This year, McG looks like a really good pick, and I say that as someone who hated that pick. Pettis has flashed, and again, I didn't love that pick (due to the equity given up, not because of the player himself). Warner is really good. Too early to know on Moore, whom is a project. James and Taylor both made the roster as 7th round picks, but honestly, picks 4-7 are pretty random in any given draft. 

I just don't know that there's been enough bad with the picks to think that the team would need to have outside help at this point. 

[y2lamanaki]

This is going to be an unpopular take, but having Saleh stick around in 2019 is probably the best thing for this franchise. And I don't think he's any good.

We're all but guaranteed to go EDGE round 1. It's fair to say that would greatly improve our pass rush, which ultimately would cut down on the stress put on the DBs to cover as long as we make them. Plus, I have to imagine we're going to look to improve the DBs as well. So...one could argue that in doing all of the above, it would really be giving Saleh a true fair chance, not to mention if we could add another linebacker along the way.

On the offensive side, the biggest improvement we need to make is one that's already taken care of- finding someone that isn't Beathard or Mullens to start at QB. That alone should really help that side of the ball. There's a nice group (purposely avoiding "core" or "corps") of skill position guys developing. Shanahan has a great scheme/mind, we obviously have a RB wizard as any player that wasn't over the hill has shined this year, Kittle could be a monster, and there's definitely stuff to like with Pettis and some young guys. In year 2 for Pettis...with Garoppolo...with Shanahan at the helm... I think the offense could do some big things.

The problem- I'm not as bullish as I was going into this year. The talent deficit is obvious and large, and Foster being a world-class idiot is a major setback. I think having Garoppolo alone will be enough to take the offense into the top 10, but I don't think that the defense will transform as quickly. We might need another year there, and by then we may need to replace Sherman, and we will likely have replaced or definitely need to replace Malcolm Smith. Mitchell will hopefully give way to DJ Jones...but there's still going to be question marks heading into 2020.

That's why I think Saleh sticking on in 2019 is actually the best thing for this team. I believe in Shanahan's offensive vision, and truly think he's the head coach/offensive mind we need in this era. If 2019's offense is indeed top 10 but the defense looks like it still needs work in a .500 season or worse (which is what one might expectlooking at all the defensive upgrades that still need to be made), Saleh can be a fitting scapegoat. Shanahan could at least argue that giving Saleh a pass rush and judging him on that was a legitimate course of action. If we get rid of him this year and the team struggles to win in Shanahan's third year with a new DC? Jed York might get restless, and there's nowhere else to turn but the people in charge.

I don't think Shanahan would think or strategize in this manner. This is just me reading the tea leaves.

[rudyZ]

I think we've had enough organizational struggles (mostly the injuries on offense and the lack of pass rusher) to justify not scapegoating Saleh. So yeah, I think he'll be back. He could be better. Who knows, maybe he has actually improved year over year, but it's just impossible to tell due to circumstances out of his control? It's practically impossible to tell. So, I think he'll be back. But even if the defense improves next year, because of an improved offense and the addition of an edge rusher or two, that shouldn't guarantee Saleh's job going into 2020. To be there two years from now, next year's defense will have to seriously flash signs of potential dominance. 

[JIllg]

15 hours ago, Forge said:

But what makes you think we need any help? It's too early for me to say that we can't draft or this regime struggles inthat regard. Yes, Thomas appears to be a bust, or at least on that trajectory, but it's not over yet, and if we move him inside permanently, maybe we fix that. Foster was worth the risk. Yes, it didn't work out, but that's not from a talent evaluation standpoint. 

I do wish that we hadn't taken a chance on CJ with that pick, but I get it (with Hoyer and Barkley, we obviously had to have someone to groom ), so that at least made sense even though I didn't think cj was draftable lol. Joe Williams was a bust, but we hit on Breida as a UDFA in the same class. Trent Taylor was fine before the back injuries; not sure if that will derail his career or not, but it's too early to say for sure. Obviously was a niche role player, but that's pretty solid in round 5, so I'm not going to completely hate on that. And if the back does derail his career, it's not an issue with talent evaluations. Colbert was a solid pick. Kittle is great. Witherspoon has certainly had some major ups and downs this year, but too early to call it quits there, especially with him getting hosed on a few penalties the last few weeks. Pita looks like he won't be much, but a 6th round pick, so whatever. Most aren't. DJ Jones looks like he could have a role moving forward, which isn't bad for a fifth round pick. Yes, some of this class has lost its shine, but way too early to say for sure that it's a problem with the FO's evaluations. It's a mixed bag so far, which is how all drafts largely are. 

This year, McG looks like a really good pick, and I say that as someone who hated that pick. Pettis has flashed, and again, I didn't love that pick (due to the equity given up, not because of the player himself). Warner is really good. Too early to know on Moore, whom is a project. James and Taylor both made the roster as 7th round picks, but honestly, picks 4-7 are pretty random in any given draft. 

I just don't know that there's been enough bad with the picks to think that the team would need to have outside help at this point. 

Agreed. And there have been very few picks that have been disgustingly poor due to scheme and roster fit or lack of talent. Unfortunately, the most valuable one was and two of the three most valuable have bombed (in part due to Rueben Foster's choices). And missing on those two picks means we are down ~1.5 quality defensive players. On a roster that was worst in the NFL in total defense. It shows. 

[rudyZ]

What sucks is that our FO (FOs of the last five years, really) have failed to address our single greatest need on defense ever since Aldon went Aldon. Which is, replace Aldon. Sure, they're addressing other needs, we have plenty anyway. But not addressing the biggest one will always diminish all the efforts that are being done. Like last year, sure we could bring in OLs, and Garçon/Goodwin/Robinson, bring in all sorts of rookies, but our offense wouldn't go anywhere, because we had failed to address its single greatest need, until Jimmy fell into our lap. We could have 10 potential superstar on defense, but they wouldn't look the part just because we don't have that edge pressure that just elevates everybody else's game. Maybe they're just waiting for the right piece. I understand not just swinging for the fences with every pick a la Browns of old. But even if you're not going to go for a top pass rusher because of valid reasons, like scheme fit or character, at least take a shot in the middle rounds, or something. Yet, we didn't even try, it seems. It's either just really bad luck, or a FO that fails to recognize its single greatest weakness.

[JIllg]

So, Jerry Rice just sort of compared Dante Pettis to himself. Which, ok. Old legends can say things. I still think John Taylor is the more likely career trajectory if Pettis pans out. Also, let the dude catch punts next year. If your WR group can't deal with an injury to him, it probably needs to be revamped.

[JIllg]

11 minutes ago, JIllg said:

So, Jerry Rice just sort of compared Dante Pettis to himself. Which, ok. Old legends can say things. I still think John Taylor is the more likely career trajectory if Pettis pans out. Also, let the dude catch punts next year. If your WR group can't deal with an injury to him, it probably needs to be revamped.

Both ~6'1", 185. Terrific punt returners. Fluid after the catch running through the ball. Probably ideally suited as a very dangerous secondary weapon in the passing game. John Taylor had giant hands, though and could rip tough catches he didn't really have the right to make. 

[y2lamanaki]

1 hour ago, JIllg said:

So, Jerry Rice just sort of compared Dante Pettis to himself. Which, ok. Old legends can say things. I still think John Taylor is the more likely career trajectory if Pettis pans out. Also, let the dude catch punts next year. If your WR group can't deal with an injury to him, it probably needs to be revamped.

Jerry made his money in route running, and that's certainly a spectacular asset for Pettis. It's also one of those nuanced things a guy like Jerry could easily notice on film, too, so to hear that praise is something. If he gets Jerry's work ethic, he'll have a hell of a career. 

That said, I can see the John Taylor comparison, too. Also would not be a disappointing result. 

And Shanahan was reported as saying Pettis will return to the punt return gig sometime before the year is out. With Pettis starting due to Garcon/Goodwin, he didn't want to take that extra risk, especially with Taylor not being 100%. Plus, Pettis wasn't 100% until recent weeks. So, hopefully we see him doing that soon. Goodwin was back Monday, so maybe as soon as this week.

[J-ALL-DAY]

54 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

Jerry made his money in route running, and that's certainly a spectacular asset for Pettis. It's also one of those nuanced things a guy like Jerry could easily notice on film, too, so to hear that praise is something. If he gets Jerry's work ethic, he'll have a hell of a career. 

That said, I can see the John Taylor comparison, too. Also would not be a disappointing result. 

And Shanahan was reported as saying Pettis will return to the punt return gig sometime before the year is out. With Pettis starting due to Garcon/Goodwin, he didn't want to take that extra risk, especially with Taylor not being 100%. Plus, Pettis wasn't 100% until recent weeks. So, hopefully we see him doing that soon. Goodwin was back Monday, so maybe as soon as this week.

Can we IR Garcon though? 

Good to hear Goodwin is returning this week. Had high hopes for him this season but because of injuries, personal issues and Jimmy G's injury, we just haven't gotten to see the best of him. 

[N4L]

Will we ever hear what happened with Goodwin? 

I wonder if he would have played if we had two home games

[Forge]

19 minutes ago, N4L said:

Will we ever hear what happened with Goodwin? 

I wonder if he would have played if we had two home games

Honestly, I don't want to know. Apparently it was a serious family matter from what I read somewhere. I'm fine with that being the only reason we get, as that is pretty personal and none of my business

[Justone2]

If he wants to share it he will. If he doesn't it should stay private.