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Bears @ Giants IGT: Sunday Dec 2nd


WindyCity

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Just now, topwop1 said:

Thank you for pointing this out.  He's so bad, I'm starting to wonder if putting Kush back into the lineup might be a better play until Long comes back in week 17 / playoffs.

I fear for MT10's life next week with Witzmann having to go up against Aaron Donald.

He wont be, James Daniels and Charles Leno is who will be facing Donald.  They dont really move him around.

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2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

-Leonard Floyd has woken up. I thought he put another good game on tape.

 I thought Trevathan did not play a good game at all.

-I thought Eddie Goldman had a nice game inside and was a big reason that Barkley did not really produce outside of 2 big runs.

Floyd's closing speed on his sack was astonishing. Also on that play, four players were blocking Mack. I think it's rather obvious at this point that Floyd's not going to win even one-on-one match-ups to get to the QB; I hope that Fangio continues to explore ways to open up lanes for him. 

Trevathan is the bellweather of this D. When he's engaged and physical, the tone of the D is so much different. The problem is that in some games, he looks completely lost. He's like the Cutler of defenders. 

Goldman was rather impressive yesterday; he was routinely getting push while taking on two blockers.

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1 minute ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Suh isnt disciplined enough to do anything.  That experiment has not worked at all this year.

I disagree.  His presence alone has opened up more for Donald as evidenced by his lead leading and career best 16.5 sacks.

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2 hours ago, topwop1 said:

 

The number 1 thing Vic needs to correct is getting these guys to work on tackling better in practice, injuries be damned.

You can work on tackling without getting injured, you don't do live tackling.  Just basic drills on dive mats for DBs and using rolling tubes or donutss to tackle and roll, with people you break down, form up and take a couple of drive steps at 3/4 speed and don't go to ground.    Takes like 15-20 minutes a day just to stay sharp.  

It's fundamentals.  Pete Carrol has Seahawks work on tackling every day in camp and maybe not every day during year, but they still revisit it.

People think it's little league crap, but it's true in every sport.  It all comes back to fundamentals.  You don't work on it, you lose it.  Your swing, your jump shot, whatever.

They aren't breaking down, they are coming in out of control and getting juked or out leveraged on tackles.

They are holding middle of the ball, without fingers over the top, away from their body and fumbling.   Little league mistakes.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Coaching

-I thought this was just a bad game for Nagy. I felt that this game warranted playing your starting QB, who by everyone's reports could have played if the game MEANT MORE. I thought it was arrogant to go on the road for a 2nd game with your backup QB and expect to win. 

My hope is that Nagy has learned some valuable lessons from this.

Chase Daniel kind of sucks and should not be trusted.
Whatever you do over bye weeks should be shredded, burnt, and buried under Halas Hall.

-I would like Vic Fangio to find a way for the defense to be more consistent. In the 1st half the Bears defense was ripping the Giants soul out, then 3rd and 23 you give up 22 yards on a prevent defense run and the momentum swings and never swings back. Do something to get the blood flowing again.

I think Nagy thought and believed Daniel would play better than he did.  I think had he known he was going to be that freaking nervous in spotlight he would have played Mitch.    He was fine in Thanksgiving game nerves wise.  Had Daniel not played like a deer in headlights he would have been better.  I don't know why he was wound so tight, but he was.  He should have put Mitch into the game after the first drive.  He was trying to let him play his way out of it, bu the never did.  

I don't know that you can never trust Daniel now.  I think he just had worst day of his life.

Fangio prevent defense is preventing us from winning.  WTF is with him in some of these games?  Like Nagy puts on his sheet "Be You" as a reminder, Fangio needs his sheet to say, "Don't be a pussywillow!" but without the willow.  

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4 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Offense

-Chase Daniel stat line does not capture how useless he was. The pick 6 was an awful predetermined throw, the next pick was a TD if he puts some air on the ball, the long throw to Cohen that was whistled dead was a TD if he did not have the arm of a grade 8 QB, and the fumbles got to the point of being comical. There was a ton of faith in Daniel that he would not play the game that he played, instead he played worse than I think anyone could have imagined.

Like I said elsewhere.  He was obviously crazy nervous.  Not a good look.  Someone should have talked to him or something.  I have had great athletes playing for me get like that, they are worse than worthless in that state, they hurt the team.  You have to quickly get through to them and snap them out of it or bench them.  There is no choice.  

-Good to see Jordan Howard to get moving a little. There was a lot of bad run blocking, but there was still too many plays where he just plows into the back of the OL. When he started to make the backside cut, he was springing big runs.

With Daniels wetting the bed, it should have been the Jordan Howard show all game.  Nagy can't help himself he wants to call plays he wants to call instead of just being vanilla with what works.  

-It does seem like Cohen has a magnet drawing him to the sideline. I am not that upset about it. Preserving his health is super important as he is an incredible weapon. His route running is astonishingly good for a RB.

Cohen has left a ton of yards on field by not quick cutting inside off blocks with defenders over playing him to outside.  Love him, but it's true.  I get it though, he's little and those guys are huge.  

-Mizzell went from having a decent game against the Lions to looking like he has never even returned a kick in Maddon before. I am not sure what to make of him.

I don't even know who this guy is or why they are letting him touch the ball.  

-Trey Burton if you could please report to the game that would be appreciated.

Trey is probably just an average player or maybe he is just not suited for so many 1 TE  3WR formations vs nickel defenses.  I think he is better being the small flex TE in a 2 TE look.  

-All Adam Shaheen does is catch passes in the endzone, literally. Glad he was healthy and involved, hopefully they can get him into the passing game more as Mitch comes back.

He needs reps and he needs to stay healthy.  Bears offense misses him. If he can't stay healthy Bears need to find another big bodied TE who can catch.  

-Allen Robinson showed why he is worth 14/season. He was catching passes that Chase Daniel was spraying all over the field. His catch on BW Webb's head was an incredible show of concentration and footwork to get another 5 yards before heading out of bounds. I think we are starting to see Robinson really get healthy and confident on that knee.

I think next year is A Robs year, but that catch was still really a wow moment.  

-Last week it was Trey Burton that should have burnt the tape, today was Taylor Gabriel's burn the tape game. He was awful. Dropped passes and what was a back breaking fumbled inside the Bears 20. He was bad all day.

Fundamentals or lack thereof.  

-Anthony Miller is missed so often when he is open that it makes me wonder if he is invisible.

He has to be frustrated with so many could have beens.  I think next year if we can get and keep a healthy MT, A Rob and Miller we could see some real fireworks more consistently.

-James Daniels had some rookie moments in the run game that killed plays.

-Witzmann was bad. In all phases of the game. His run blocking is always pretty poor, but yesterday he was worked over in pass pro as well.

I wasn't watching the broadcast that closely to analyze line play.  I'll take your word for it.  

-I am not sure why Whitehair's snap issues were back. When you do the dead ball snap it should eliminate some of the wet ball snap issues you get with a traditional snap. He was also not very good in the run game. He struggled with Tomlinson most of the day in the run game.

Daniels should be our center and Whitehair our guard.  

-Massie continues to be pretty solid. He had some great blocks in the run game.

 

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Daniel was in a state of mind similar to what Parkey was like when he missed all those kicks in one game.

Some people just get like that sometimes and it snowballs each moment building on itself.  Just like Parkey he can be better than what he showed.  It just sucks he got like that in such a big game in a playoff race. 

As a coach you never know when a player is going to get like that the first time it happens.  You are just kinda like WTF is happening with this guy?  Okay he'll play his way out of it, and then he doesn't.  This isn't how he practices, he looks great in practice.  Some people can have a couple drops or whatever mistake and come back from it quickly in same game - Anthony Miller is probably a guy like that, mentally very strong even when they aren't playing like they should.  Other people just aren't built that way.  

After it happens once or twice you learn to spot the signs for that guy. 

For example, I had a QB once that was like that in little league.  Great athlete, but you always knew he was going to wet the bed all game when he ran to port a potty pre game and was in there for a long time.  He was best QB on our team by a mile, but I had to play another kid who could barely throw 15 yards because I couldn't trust him.  he had good games, but in that state he would just start dropping ball all over place like Daniel did or throwing passes right to other team.   I finally moved the old QB to TE and he was happy as a clam, never had an upset stomach again.  He became talkative and jokey in practice where before he was withdrawn.   Dad was forever pissed at me though, to this day he hates me.  Thinks I ruined his kids career or something at 11.   But I realized after I was killing that kid playing him at QB, I felt a lot better after the move even though our team could no longer pass the ball downfield.  

I had.a RB that was same way, except his sign was he would get real quiet and start day dreaming or zoning out and not hearing what you said.  This kid had D1 talent and could single handily win a game, but when he got like this you knew he was going to have like 3 or 4 fumbles and you had to weigh what to do with him.  Not like you have tons of depth in little league.  Plus how do you tell a dad in little league, yeah your kid is going to wig out, I can already tell and therefore I'm not going to play him.  You kinda have to let it happen and then make the change, but by then you already lost the game.

If I was a high school or above coach I for sure would have just benched them as soon as I saw the signs, but little league is different for obvious reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Except he doesnt.  When he takes off and runs, either its designed, the play has completely broken down, or nobody is open.  It's been demonstrated through visual evidence over and over again.  He is seeing the field very, very well.  The takes off and runs if the first read isnt open is a narrative being driven by pff and Lombardi. The guys who actually break down the tape praise trubisky for his ability to read coverages and use of his eyes and feet.

Well he and Nagy are certainly disguising his called runs that look like passes very well then which is my visual evidence and I have only watched a few minutes of sports talk this season so I have no idea of what the media is saying about him, but perhaps you have become overly sensitive because of too much media watching. Remember, there is never enough sports going on to justify a single 24 hour sports channel, much the less dozens of them and local sports talk radio shows so the more irritating and controversial their statements the more they have a chance of standing out in the crowd of sports talk.

And we just have a different opinion about your comment "...or nobody open..." and my joke "...Orton..." is that I'd rather have Trubisky throw the ball away a few times on second and fives, instead of watching Daniels for a few more games. Per Nagy, at the time of the Vikings' game Trubisky had the most rushing yards of any QB and he was injured on a designed run. Trubisky has shown good judgement in not going all FB on his runs, but Trubisky staying healthy for the season and playoffs than 95 percent of the gains he may make on runs.

Interesting note, he has the best yards per average of the QB's by a yard or more at least for the starting QB's I viewed.

 

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21 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Except he doesnt.  When he takes off and runs, either its designed, the play has completely broken down, or nobody is open.  It's been demonstrated through visual evidence over and over again.  He is seeing the field very, very well.  The takes off and runs if the first read isnt open is a narrative being driven by pff and Lombardi. The guys who actually break down the tape praise trubisky for his ability to read coverages and use of his eyes and feet.

He has missed some reads, everybody does every game, but he doesn't miss that many that I have seen,. Not that I know every read he had not knowing all the concepts, reads or the play call, but you can still kind of tell and make educated guesses by the patterns if you rewatch a play or you can tell by coach and QB body language.  It's not always about who was open on a rewatch either, its about the progression or the read based off what the defense did or the coverage was.  To be honest I haven't rewatched much as games effect my mood too much this year. I have just gone by first watch, body language and listened to all the interviews and read stuff here from people who are rewatching and reading into that.  

He gets ripped for struggling after his first read, but pressure is usually there by then and you try reading a defense with a guy running free full speed at you a few yards away.  And it's not nothing that he has been near perfect on first reads his first year in the offense.  This guy works hard and that's why I like him.  

Mostly the plays he looked bad he has just missed the throw, which also happens to everyone.  Happens to Mitch a touch more than we would like this season of course.  Especially to poor Miller who seems to be the most missed wide open WR in NFL history.

I think MT is criticized harshly because when you miss a wide open WR any idiot can see that and that sticks in your brain, especially if you are a national boob who just watches highlights.  Two guys from his draft class are two of the best QBs in the NFL right now and they were selected after him, that makes him bad somehow in people's minds.  

From a birds eye and historical view he is doing quite well.  First year in a complex system of many different types of reads, RPOs and concepts, a ton of formations and terminology, he has to know protections, he had little prior experience of value college or pro, and most all the skill players are new to it as well.  His most talented WR is coming off a severe knee injury and he has very little run game helping him.

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/2/2018 at 5:02 PM, topwop1 said:

I respectfully disagree. You have a 50/50 chance of winning the game by going for 2. Odds less than that if you lose the opening toss in OT like the Bears did.

Bringing this back up again after seeing what Anthony Lynn did last night by deciding to go for 2 instead of the tying XP on the Chargers last TD with 0:04 remaining.

This is exactly why Nagy should have gone for 2 in NY with the game on the line.  I'm actually surprised he didn't and he'll probably learn from it for next time.

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1 hour ago, topwop1 said:

Bringing this back up again after seeing what Anthony Lynn did last night by deciding to go for 2 instead of the tying XP on the Chargers last TD with 0:04 remaining.

This is exactly why Nagy should have gone for 2 in NY with the game on the line.  I'm actually surprised he didn't and he'll probably learn from it for next time.

You have to factor in how your O is playing.  How their O is playing. How defenses are playing. How your kicker is kicking.  Weather.  Fatigue of respective teams.  Injuries.  Potential for further injuries with additional play. 

In Giants game they should have gone for two IMO.  But it wasn’t an easy call.

Charger made right decision.  No brainer.  Giving ball back to KC would have been a huge mistake.  

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