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Week 13: Iggles Wiggles


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20 minutes ago, mike23md said:

44 in the last 2 years as injury prone. Seriously. 

And even after the FACTS are stated, you stil think its due to being injury prone? I think I have heard it all. At some point you have to tell yourself its ok to be wrong. 

Umm yeah. Almost every player that’s gotten injured has battled injuries every year since we acquired them and most of them battled injuries either in college or on their former teams. So, it’s just something that happens to those certain players while other players don’t get as injured.

If it was “just the training staff” then every player on the team would get injuries badly with pulled muscles every year, but that never happens.

I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist.

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13 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Since we have to play Groundhog Day again with this, I'll repeat it one...more...time. Please bookmark this so you can refer back to it.

Football Outsiders have a metric called Adjusted Games Lost (AGL). It includes players who missed games due to injuries and weighing the raw number based on whether the player was a starter or a reserve. They also factor in the diminished capacity of a player who is on the injury report but plays anyway.

With that said, they ranked EVERY team at least from 2014 onward (they have rankings before that and we don't shake out that well before then either - I'm just focused on recency). And here is how we ranked vs. the rest of the league.

Year / Rank (low # is better)

2014 = 24th (*)

2015 = 31st  (*)

2016 = 10th (Offense) / 31st (Defense)

2017 = 31st (Offense) / 27th (Defense)

So for at least the last 4 years, we have been around the worst teams in the league in terms of health. 

 

(*) I could not find the split for this. This appears to be the total team

 

Now, I'll just sit back and watch you zero in on the 2016 offense as proof that everything is just fine.

2014: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/2014-adjusted-games-lost

  • WAS = 7th offense / 29th defense
  • Notable quote:
    Quote

    The 2014 Redskins with Jay Gruden in his first year as head coach led the way with 79.0 percent of his questionable players playing. You can find Gruden's staff doing a suspect job as early as Week 1. Defensive lineman Barry Cofield sprained his ankle in Week 1 and was placed on short-term IR. In November, Cofield revealed to CSNWashington.com that he had a groin injury that was bothering him a lot. He had groin surgery while out for the ankle, but the Redskins never disclosed any groin injury for Cofield. The team contends Cofield was healthy for Week 1, but it's easy to be skeptical.

     

2015: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/2015-adjusted-games-lost-unit

  • WAS = 27th offense / 31st defense
  • Notable quotes:
    Quote

    The Redskins and Giants were the only teams to rank in the bottom 10 on both sides of the ball with the Giants finishing in the bottom two in each category. We figured the Ravens would rank last on offense with more than half of their starters ending the season on injured reserve. Ryan Kerrigan was the only defender to start all 16 games for Washington

    Quote

    Tight end certainly contributed to the Giants and Redskins leading the league in AGL. Both offenses liked to use two tight ends, but the Giants lost Daniel Fells (MRSA) and Larry Donnell for the season. The Redskins eventually placed Derek Carrier, Niles Paul and Logan Paulsen on injured reserve. It helped that Jordan Reedplayed most of the season, but he is basically a slot receiver in this offense. Carrier started 11 games and played at least 44 percent of the offensive snaps in eight of them.

     

 

So, eight possible group+year pairs. In that small span, six of the eight pairs were in the bottom quartile.

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1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

I can’t agree because I don’t agree with you all, obviously. I think we have some injury prone players and I think that they’d get injured anywhere they’d play.

Who are the injury prone players that you think are skewing the numbers? Reed, Trent, and ... ?

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8 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Umm yeah. Almost every player that’s gotten injured has battled injuries every year since we acquired them and most of them battled injuries either in college or on their former teams. So, it’s just something that happens to those certain players while other players don’t get as injured.

If it was “just the training staff” then every player on the team would get injuries badly with pulled muscles every year, but that never happens.

I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist.

Okay, two things:

  1. That means our medical staff stinks for not identifying these problems when we bring players in for workouts. Do the S&C staff have no input into those evaluations? (honestly asking on that last part)
  2. If the Redskins are going to take risks on guys who have an injury track record, shouldn't the S&C coaches make those particular players a higher focus? I'm not saying that they should solely concentrate on those players, but if you know you are going to take a guy with an injury history, it would seem to make sense to me to put more work in making sure that guy stretches more, or whatever it takes.
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9 minutes ago, Woz said:

Who are the injury prone players that you think are skewing the numbers? Reed, Trent, and ... ?

Trent, Reed, Moses, Lauvao, CT, Crowder has had hamstring issues since he was drafted, PRich, Doctson his rookie year with the mysterious achillies/plantar fasciitis thing, we signed Foster who had a serious shoulder injury with the Bucs and that’s why they let him go and then he had the same injury for us last year and was worried we’d cut him too or not re-sign him and we probably shouldn’t have.

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1 hour ago, MikeT14 said:

We are just the unluckiest SOBs ever I guess. 9_9

You don’t think whether a guy breaks a bone or tears a ligament in bad luck? I certainly think it is, there’s certainly nothing you can do to prevent either from happening.

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3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

You don’t think whether a guy breaks a bone or tears a ligament in bad luck? I certainly think it is, there’s certainly nothing you can do to prevent either from happening.

https://us.humankinetics.com/blogs/excerpt/strength-and-conditioning-coach 

Quote

The second primary goal is to reduce athletic injuries. To that end, conditioning coaches often design regimens to strengthen body parts that are prone to injury in a particular sport. Andrew Moser, Strength Coach at Iowa State University agrees, saying, "Student-athletes can have a great training plan that improves their speed, agility, strength, explosiveness, etc., but if we can't keep them healthy and out there competing, then all of the training improvements don't help us." Thus to prevent athletes from getting injured during training, conditioning coaches must know the correct exercise and lifting techniques and be able to teach them to athletes. The conditioning coach also monitors athletes' general health, sometimes providing nutritional advice or referring athletes to a registered dietitian if they need more sophisticated nutritional counseling.

That also ties back to what ... Thai? ... said about not respecting them possibly? 

 

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Just now, MikeT14 said:

https://us.humankinetics.com/blogs/excerpt/strength-and-conditioning-coach 

That also ties back to what ... Thai? ... said about not respecting them possibly? 

 

That’s a bunch of horse ish imo. I do not think you can keep a player from breaking a leg or tearing ligaments if they fall a certain way, I’d the get caught in the turf or if other players hit them a certain way.

How in the world could the Redskins strength and conditioning team have prevented Alex Smith and Colt McCoy from breaking their legs?

Theres no other answer than... they couldn’t have.

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2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

How in the world could the Redskins strength and conditioning team have prevented Alex Smith and Colt McCoy from breaking their legs?

Theres no other answer than... they couldn’t have.

You keep circling back to this. I keep telling you this isn't what I am talking about. 2 people out of a collective whole of Top 10 injuries 4-plus straight seasons. 

 

I apologize for Human Kinetics seeming like BS to you. 

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10 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

You keep circling back to this. I keep telling you this isn't what I am talking about. 2 people out of a collective whole of Top 10 injuries 4-plus straight seasons. 

 

I apologize for Human Kinetics seeming like BS to you. 

1. TWill dislocated his thumb and had a chest/rib injury va Dallas that caused him to go in the ambulance to the hospital after the game. 

2. Alex Smith & Colt Broke their legs 

3. PRich had knee issues (he’s had them his entire career & in college) and a AC joint shoulder problem 

4. Guice tore his ACL on the third carry of the preseaon

5. Scherff tore a pec muscle, that happens on every team to some players

6. Lauvao has been a walking injury his entire career. He’s dealt with ankle and knee issues in both Cle & Dc

7. Moses has bad ankles, he had to have surgery on both in the offseason and if you watched the play where he sprained his knee, it’s a wonder he didn’t tear a ligament 

8. Dunbar has a nerve issue in his leg 

9. CT broke a rib or two 

10. Crowder seems to have chronic hamstring issues. The last few years they’ve brothered him. 

11. Quinn and Sims severely sprained their ankles, not sure what the trainers could do to stop that. 

12. Danny Johnson broke his forearm 

Can the training staff stop a player from a breaking an arm?

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21 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

1. TWill dislocated his thumb and had a chest/rib injury va Dallas that caused him to go in the ambulance to the hospital after the game. 

2. Alex Smith & Colt Broke their legs 

3. PRich had knee issues (he’s had them his entire career & in college) and a AC joint shoulder problem 

4. Guice tore his ACL on the third carry of the preseaon

5. Scherff tore a pec muscle, that happens on every team to some players

6. Lauvao has been a walking injury his entire career. He’s dealt with ankle and knee issues in both Cle & Dc

7. Moses has bad ankles, he had to have surgery on both in the offseason and if you watched the play where he sprained his knee, it’s a wonder he didn’t tear a ligament 

8. Dunbar has a nerve issue in his leg 

9. CT broke a rib or two 

10. Crowder seems to have chronic hamstring issues. The last few years they’ve brothered him. 

11. Quinn and Sims severely sprained their ankles, not sure what the trainers could do to stop that. 

12. Danny Johnson broke his forearm 

Can the training staff stop a player from a breaking an arm?

JFC - you're right turtle. it's just the worst luck ever and there's nothing we can do to help fix it. 

strawman.png

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47 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

That’s a bunch of horse ish imo. I do not think you can keep a player from breaking a leg or tearing ligaments if they fall a certain way, I’d the get caught in the turf or if other players hit them a certain way.

How in the world could the Redskins strength and conditioning team have prevented Alex Smith and Colt McCoy from breaking their legs?

Theres no other answer than... they couldn’t have.

I literally explained this to you a few pages ago on how broken bones, like the ones that afflicted our mid-30s QBs, are largely a result of stress and age. Yes, young players can get them too. But mostly injuries like we saw with Smith and McCoy are a result of age. 

 I also explained to you that ligaments can get stronger or weaker depending upon the regimen used. A weaker ligament is more prone to injury. And the weaker it is the easier it is to completely tear rather than partially tear (or bruise) it.

Again...our team ranks among the worst in AGL since at least 2013. Other teams with a good S&C program don't have this problem being ranked that low year after year.

Its officially the movie Groundhog Day that I need to repeat this.

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2 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

We are just the unluckiest SOBs I guess. 9_9

Quite correct. Apparently there's just nothing we can do about it so let's just keep over training and using improper technique and not using correct recovery methods.

Since...you know...its all luck.

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