Denver Broncos @ San Francisco 49ers GDT

[BroncoBruin]

Too bad, team played a great second half and had so many chances to get the lead. 

[thebestever6]

Another double edge sword like yes vj adjusted and kittle didn't have a catch in the second half but that first half was inexcusable. 

[BroncoBruin]

I can't take any more Keenum. He is a joke and has only regressed week by week. I honestly think Siemian was a better starter who ended up just melting down behind a crumbling offensive line. 

Just the thought of Keenum being back next year is sickening. What he did today was probably the most depressing display of quarterbacking I can remember seeing. Not the worst, but the most depressing. We spotted them 20 points and with even average QB play in the second half, probably win the game. A lot of this game falls on the coaching staff, but this was the "Keenum game" for me. He should never have a starting gig in the NFL again. 

[thebestever6]

7 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I can't take any more Keenum. He is a joke and has only regressed week by week. I honestly think Siemian was a better starter who ended up just melting down behind a crumbling offensive line. 

Just the thought of Keenum being back next year is sickening. What he did today was probably the most depressing display of quarterbacking I can remember seeing. Not the worst, but the most depressing. We spotted them 20 points and with even average QB play in the second half, probably win the game. A lot of this game falls on the coaching staff, but this was the "Keenum game" for me. He should never have a starting gig in the NFL again. 

Keenum was bad but so is musgrave and VJ. VJ wants a vanilla scheme no mistakes by the offense while creating turnovers on d. This team only has one way to win ball games . 

We need a new coach that can bring his guys in so we can at least get scheme and fundamentals down year one. Staying in no mans land is gonna hurt long term.

[BroncoBruin]

Just now, thebestever6 said:

Keenum was bad but so is musgrave and VJ. VJ wants a vanilla scheme no mistakes by the offense while creating turnovers on d. This team only has one way to win ball games . 

We need a new coach that can bring his guys in so we can at least get scheme and fundamentals down year one. Staying in no mans land is gonna hurt long term.

I have no problem with the formula VJ was tied to. This team doesn't have a QB and has key pieces injured, however they could win they had to stick to that plan. 

I have no problem with letting Musgrave go either. Keenum held the ball, missed wide open guys and threw short of the sticks all game long. It was a joke. 

[broncofan48]

Just now, BroncoBruin said:

I have no problem with the formula VJ was tied to. This team doesn't have a QB and has key pieces injured, however they could win they had to stick to that plan. 

I have no problem with letting Musgrave go either. Keenum held the ball, missed wide open guys and threw short of the sticks all game long. It was a joke. 

After the 1st attempt to Sutton was there anything attempted even over 20 yards?

[thebestever6]

7 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

After the 1st attempt to Sutton was there anything attempted even over 20 yards?

Nope and that one throw to Hamilton was brutal on the sideline it was a 20 yarder he had 5 yards of depth on the defender and Keenum threw it wide out of bounds. I know people always say they can make that throw but I really think I could of lol.

[BroncoBruin]

Didn't see a live reaction to VJ's challenge here but that was so, so bad. He had that close view in real time, had no doubt he was right and wasted a timeout instead of relying on his brain trust. Your coach needs to be calm, collected and rational in that situation (for all intents and purposes, a "playoff" game for Denver) and his pride took over. That was a big crunch time failure for a head coach on the hot seat. 

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Didn't see a live reaction to VJ's challenge here but that was so, so bad. He had that close view in real time, had no doubt he was right and wasted a timeout instead of relying on his brain trust. Your coach needs to be calm, collected and rational in that situation (for all intents and purposes, a "playoff" game for Denver) and his pride took over. That was a big crunch time failure for a head coach on the hot seat. 

We lost to a team who if the season ended today would have the number 1 pick. They were ill prepared in that first half and played uninspired football 

He was pressing early as was the team. I think he knows his days are dwindling. 

[germ-x]

3 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Didn't see a live reaction to VJ's challenge here but that was so, so bad. He had that close view in real time, had no doubt he was right and wasted a timeout instead of relying on his brain trust. Your coach needs to be calm, collected and rational in that situation (for all intents and purposes, a "playoff" game for Denver) and his pride took over. That was a big crunch time failure for a head coach on the hot seat. 

Yeah,  that was an awful decision.

Again though, I applaud Joseph’s aggressiveness.  He knows he’s on the hot seat so it makes it easier, but few coaches in the league, hot seat or not, would’ve went for all those 4th downs.

This was probably the worst the OL has played all season, I’ll give Keenum a bit of a pass there.  Though, part of why they could be so aggressive is because the defense has no respect for him beating them and the offense has 0 weapons.

Today showed how important Harris/Sanders are to the team.  Harris wouldn’t have covered Kittle, but a large part of why he ran free all 1st half were miscommunications between the DBs/LBs.  We also saw how Sanders alone helps keep a defense honest.  SF completely disrespected our weapons and pinned their ears back all game.  

[germ-x]

3 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

We lost to a team who if the season ended today would have the number 1 pick. They were ill prepared in that first half and played uninspired football 

He was pressing early as was the team. I think he knows his days are dwindling. 

I mean I get it, but don’t.  They corrected at half, but literally everything Kittle did was because of miscommunications.  The DBs and LBs were at each other’s throats the whole 1st half because they weren’t on the same page....meaning, players were blowing assignments.

[Broncofan]

All right, after that debacle...

The Good

1.  Our pass rush was lethal....when we weren't offsides (more on that in a sec)

2.  DeSean Hamilton - took some BIG hits, and showed toughness.   He's still going to need time to develop, and he's really not suited to anything but the slot, but he did a decent job.  I also liked what Freeman showed late (although to be clear, SF was gassed, we just need a 2-headed attack to keep Lindsay fresh). 

3.  The character in the 2H - the team could have easily given up down 20.  And then when we whiffed on 4th down.   But we didn't.  THAT is impressive. 

The Bad

1.  SF DL reallly stuffed our OL run game and really got pressure - SF isn't bad vs. the run, but we're supposedly a top 5 run OL.  We didn't play like one today.  Now, with no weapons, I get that they went 8-in-the-box and dared Keenum to beat us.   But it's still disheartening we couldn't win regularly 1 on 1 in the run. And in pass pro, man, we struggled...again.  And SF isn’t a good pass rush D.   To say it’s disappointing is a massive understatement. 

2.  The penalties - really killed us with the offsides. 

3.  The lack of TE involvement - we know that our WR's are young....yet the TE's barely had any targets, and Lacosse saw less than half the snaps.   The thing is, SF has real trouble covering the TE...but nope, just the same each and every time.   

The Just Plain Ugly

1.  Awful coaching - Guys, if anyone tries to defend VJ's ability as a head coach, just show this game's film.     SF dominated the 1H, in a must-win game, and we had literally no answer for everything they did on O.  Everyone and their dog knew that Kittle and the RB's were the mismatches for us on D.  And yet, we literally had no answer in the 1H - no bracket coverage, nothing.   Yes, we adjusted in the 1H - but how do you go into the game and think that "hey, it's OK, we've got this" with Kittle?     On O, we know we have a ton of rookie WR's....so we targeted our TE's, who SF has real trouble in covering...with 4 targets.  Man, SMH. 

2.  QB - And yeah, Keenum is absolute garbage.    All but 2 W's I'd say we won despite his play - and the 2 others, he was up and down.   It's just so painful watching him play.   I don't think there's anything more to say.   Whether he's got a clean pocket, or under pressure, in play-action - he's...just not good.   

 

We've got other problems for sure - it wasn't just QB & coaching.  And I don't have a problem with the calls to go for it that missed (although with SF getting nowhere in the 2H, a FG would have been justifiable at the 21...but even that wasn't awful).   Yes, our pass protection had a letdown against a very meh SF pass rush.  And our pass coverage other than vs. Kittle clearly got exposed without Chris Harris Jr. around.  And we didn't establish the run well at all, and SF dictated the play on the LOS until they got tired in the 4Q.   But those are problems that are a result of us going young and with injuries.   Those should get better in time and with more investment in the draft (go young, Elway, we can wait 1 more offseason before really thinking all-now).   But as I've said before, we are going nowhere as long as Keenum is our QB - and frankly, once we get there, VJ will just not be good enough to have us win close game.    And that's what you need if you want to be a legit contender.   None of this changes my mind that we aren't in a great position to go Rd1 QB - it just tells me we're better off solidifying the rest of the team, and being ready to hit QB hard in 2020 early...while dabbling for 2019 (because we have to have SOME hope to improve our future QB situation, even if it's a Rd3-4 pick lol).

Now, as bad as things are on the coaching & QB front, the rest of the problems should improve, as we've got kids there.    So we should not lose sight of the fact that 2018 has been a big success in long-term development.   This isn't an indictment on the team as a whole - we're a LOT better than 2017.  But we're also going nowhere long-term into contention until we get a QB & coach (and another year of solidifying our roster, Harris & Sanders showed us how thin we are - so best to keep the youth movement going, only way to fix things long-term roster-wise).   The problem is this isn't a great offseason to invest in QB with early draft capital and so 2019 is looking bleak on that front...sigh.

[broncofan48]

I will say I’m high on the offense outside of Keenum.  The young guys are talented.   One more weapon whether it’s another WR in the draft or a TE would go along ways in helping whoever the QBOTF is.

 

If Elway can have another draft like 2018 this team will be on a very good trajectory.   Provided they can find even average QB play

[Broncofan]

58 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

I will say I’m high on the offense outside of Keenum.  The young guys are talented.   One more weapon whether it’s another WR in the draft or a TE would go along ways in helping whoever the QBOTF is.

 

If Elway can have another draft like 2018 this team will be on a very good trajectory.   Provided they can find even average QB play

There’s reason to be very optimistic for sure.  But we probably need more trench help and ideally Sutton is a 2 next year and Hamilton a 3.   But sadly true WR1 are so hard to find. 

Heuermann can probably be had cheaply on a team friendly 2nd deal.  TE are one of the few exceptions where a 2nd deal makes sense because they are rarely cap breakers and they are just hitting their window to contribute Year 3-4.  But we really need some form of real threat across the seam and middle and provide a safety valve.   Sanders was so valuable in doing it all. 

The big missing element is even average QB play.  We are paying Keenum to be ok.   At least when we had bad QB’s in 2016-17 they were cheap.  And he’s far from ok. Sigh.  

[thebestever6]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

There’s reason to be very optimistic for sure.  But we probably need more trench help and ideally Sutton is a 2 next year and Hamilton a 3.   But sadly true WR1 are so hard to find. 

Heuermann can probably be had cheaply on a team friendly 2nd deal.  TE are one of the few exceptions where a 2nd deal makes sense because they are rarely cap breakers and they are just hitting their window to contribute Year 3-4.  But we really need some form of real threat across the seam and middle and provide a safety valve.   Sanders was so valuable in doing it all. 

The big missing element is even average QB play.  We are paying Keenum to be ok.   At least when we had bad QB’s in 2016-17 they were cheap.  And he’s far from ok. Sigh.  

I know elway went to darnolds game last year with kubiak and company.  And we know he tried hard to trade up for him. I know he went to Drew Locks game this year haven't heard any other qbs games he went too. So I'm not sure if I missed it or they're just interested in drew lock in this draft.