Revisiting the Khalil Mack Trade

[vegas492]

I would only hope that with our first two picks we can land a player similar to Mack.  In fact, I'd trade them both for Josh Allen or Nick Bosa.  Easy call to me.

The only thing about the deal I didn't like was the money.  Chicago is up against it compared to the rest of the league.  They had better have good depth and develop that second team (from this year).

Agree that Chicago can improve from within....not just with the guys mentioned, but also Robinson, Burton and Gabriel.

I think that what will hurt them most is simple.  Film.  Film on Nagy's offense.  He flew under the radar for a while.  Now DC's have a whole year to scheme for them.

  

[vegas492]

12 minutes ago, Pool said:

Your team has managed despite busting on several first round picks has it not? 

Please don't pick at that scab.  Still hurts too much!

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, vegas492 said:

I would only hope that with our first two picks we can land a player similar to Mack.  In fact, I'd trade them both for Josh Allen or Nick Bosa.  Easy call to me.

The only thing about the deal I didn't like was the money.  Chicago is up against it compared to the rest of the league.  They had better have good depth and develop that second team (from this year).

Agree that Chicago can improve from within....not just with the guys mentioned, but also Robinson, Burton and Gabriel.

I think that what will hurt them most is simple.  Film.  Film on Nagy's offense.  He flew under the radar for a while.  Now DC's have a whole year to scheme for them.  

IF it was just the picks or just the money, this wouldn't be a discussion.  But it's both.  Guys like Robinson, Burton, etc. aren't going to improve.  They've been in the league long enough.

[vegas492]

5 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Have you not paid attention to our last two seasons?  If we couldn't overcome missing on those first round picks with Aaron effing Rodgers, what makes you think the Bears can survive with Mitch effing Trubisky?

And we actually HAD first round picks.  

First off...I agree with you on this point.  Very much so.

Chicago, though, can win on defense.

I think what I'm seeing in the posts is how many wins will Chicago have....  12 seems a reach to me.  I think that Cwood put it out there pretty good, they had a near ideal scenario this year.  That is going to be tough to replicate.

[MacReady]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

How much more room for improvement do you think Matt Nagy?  Part of the benefit with Nagy was there was very limited tape in terms of his play calling.  How is he going to adapt when defenses adapt?  Defenses will eventually adapt, and we have yet to see how Nagy adapts.  How much more room for improvement does Roquan Smith have?  He's in the running for DROY as it is.  He's going to be good, and that's the value in taking LBs early.  They're usually pretty damn high floors.  They may not have tremendous upside, but they're usually pretty damn good as rookies.  And OG (if that's where James Daniels plays long term) doesn't really lend itself to being a huge impact position.  It's usually only as good as the guys next to him.  Your OL is only as good as your weakest OL.  If Whitehair doesn't do his job, then Daniels has to pick up the slack.  To me, there really isn't much room for improvement.  They might win 12 games next year, but we saw a near ideal scenario for the Bears happen this year.  I just don't see it happening again.

Bears averaged under 22 points per game in their last 7 regular season games.  15 points (18 if Pankey doesn't miss) in their HOME playoff game.

Defenses are going to adapt?  No, they've already adapted.

[vegas492]

4 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I would only hope that with our first two picks we can land a player similar to Mack.  In fact, I'd trade them both for Josh Allen or Nick Bosa.  Easy call to me.

The only thing about the deal I didn't like was the money.  Chicago is up against it compared to the rest of the league.  They had better have good depth and develop that second team (from this year).

Agree that Chicago can improve from within....not just with the guys mentioned, but also Robinson, Burton and Gabriel.

I think that what will hurt them most is simple.  Film.  Film on Nagy's offense.  He flew under the radar for a while.  Now DC's have a whole year to scheme for them.

  

 

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

IF it was just the picks or just the money, this wouldn't be a discussion.  But it's both.  Guys like Robinson, Burton, etc. aren't going to improve.  They've been in the league long enough.

Yes.  I get it.  Picks and money.  Clear as day.  Give me Josh Allen or Bosa for those two first on a rookie deal and all is well.  Giving up both and $20M/year?  That's when I get cold feet.

I think we are going to disagree on improvement from Robinson, Burton, Gabriel.  I think they can and will do better in year two.  Especially Robinson.  And he needs to in order to justify that contract.

I very much agree with you that the toughest part is Nagy and how he kind of snuck up on the league.  The league will now adapt.  It always does.  As you stated, it kind of falls on Trubisky.  

I didn't see the whole "12 wins" thing.  I think the Bears can be a fine team again next year and probably not win 12 games.  

[MacReady]

5 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

First off...I agree with you on this point.  Very much so.

Chicago, though, can win on defense.

I think what I'm seeing in the posts is how many wins will Chicago have....  12 seems a reach to me.  I think that Cwood put it out there pretty good, they had a near ideal scenario this year.  That is going to be tough to replicate.

Yes.  They can win with defense.  Can they win while losing their slot corner?  Probably, since he was out the latter part of the year.  Can they win without Amos?  Maybe.  Can they win without Trevathan, whom they will likely cut to have SOME money?  Can they win without Fangio?  Can they win without the extraordinary health they had on defense this year?  

Maybe to all of those individually.  If they all happen, chances are it's a no.  

 

[Gopackgonerd]

Fangio is a big loss, even though they still have a lot of talent.

[packfanfb]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

It certainly doesn't help them.  How good would the Chargers be this year without Derwin James?  Or even how good would the Packers be without Jaire Alexander?  The notion that FRPs can't make an impact is a farce.

Didnt say that. But they are a pretty complete team, especially on D. They aren't as dependent on a No. 1 coming in and helping right away. Their 1st round pick this year is Khalil Mack, the best player in the draft. He just costs $25 million, which, once again, doesn't really hurt them in 2019, but does in 2-3 years. That's the risk/reward which we've discussed ad nauseam on here.

I'd argue the loss of Fangio hurts the Bears A LOT more in 2019 versus not having a No. 1 pick.

[Norm]

If we all believe the bears are great they will win 7 games. If we **** on them they will finish ahead of us. It's this simple

[squire12]

Why is it that only the defenses get to improve vs Nagy?  Why is it a one way street for coaches to adjust to teams?   Must be 13 years of MM status quo as an offense.

GB will be competing with CHI for the NFC North title in 2019

[Pool]

4 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

The question you should be asking is, what will the Bears defense look like minus Fangio and possibly Donatell, and less picks in the draft to shore up the loss of some key free agents?   "Same" is not a valid answer, of course.

Roquan will be better. The defense will be better if Mack and Jackson play every game. Our rookie backup DT Nichols will be better.

The only player we are going to lose is looking like either Amos or Callahan. Not sure what other key free agents you are talking about. We will need to replace either our nickel corner or safety. Not too hard a task with a 3rd round pick. And let's face it, McManis and Bush are not as good as Amos and Callahan but their certainly serviceable.

@Outpost31 the Bears are not going to lose Trevathan, Callahan, and Amos. I don't know where you got that idea. 

[Pool]

5 hours ago, WaitWhat said:

The inevitable regression of the Bears will be hilarious to watch. One good regular season (finally) and suddenly they are as annoying as Cubs fans. 

Hey little brother, go ask Vikings fans how quickly a fall from the top can occur. See you next season. 

Awfully cocky for a guy whose team lost to the Cardinals and got shut out at home by the Lions.

[Pool]

4 hours ago, CWood21 said:

It certainly doesn't help them.  How good would the Chargers be this year without Derwin James?  Or even how good would the Packers be without Jaire Alexander?  The notion that FRPs can't make an impact is a farce.

The question should read "How good would the Chargers be this year with Khalil Mack instead of Derwin James? Or even how good would the Packers be with Khalil Mack and not Jaire Alexander?

Hope you don't mind me fixing that for you to make it a more accurate statement.

[Pool]

4 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Have you not paid attention to our last two seasons?  If we couldn't overcome missing on those first round picks with Aaron effing Rodgers, what makes you think the Bears can survive with Mitch effing Trubisky?

And we actually HAD first round picks.  

I guess our stellar defense? Trubisky, Nagy, Robinson, Gabriel, Burton etc continuing to improve? We don't need Trubisky to be Aaron Rodgers. You understand that right?