Are you worried about missing the playoffs?

[Chieferific]

The Steelers are in a class by themselves. They can beat any team. They can lose to any team. TO ME that's a coaching issue. I'm not one to call out Tomlin. I think there is a better chance you'd do worse if you tried to replace him. But man is it frustrating. 

[CKSteeler]

On 12/6/2018 at 8:11 AM, FourThreeMafia said:

Butler and Porter and the ST coach should all be replaced IMO.... Even if we make the playoffs. 

What exactly does this accomplish? You fire Butler at this stage, you aren't just firing him but the entire defensive staff. There's no one underneath him to promote unless they think the DB coach from Alabama is the guy. Which wouldn't surprise me given how this team makes decisions like this in the last decade or so (hint - I'm not a fan). And if you fire Butler and his staff and bring in an outsider, you are stuck in a position where you have to tell Tomlin hands off the defense. Which is supposedly his specialty what with his one year as a coordinator and all.

People are saying this team is inconsistent, but they really aren't. Any middling team can say they're inconsistent, but the reality is that they haven't beaten anyone this year. They've struggled against every semi-competent team they faced besides Carolina who they got at home on a short week. That along with the game against Atlanta were their most impressive wins. They were down 21-0 to KC and put up basically garbage time numbers. They were never really threatening to overtake them. The defense had zero answers that day.

The team isn't that talented and they sure as hell don't have a dazzling brilliant mind running things. I mean, you have Antonio Brown and Juju outside, and they spend half their time throwing it horizontally. Meanwhile, they have a pathetic whole in the middle of their defense at ILB and they trot out Coty Sensabaugh as their #2 CB.

From top to bottom the decision makers on this team are up their own ***. I love the let's fire a coordinator and hire his subordinate move! Cowher used to shuffle coordinators like chairs on the deck of the Titanic and the staffs tended to go with them. He also had an actual coaching tree. Now we have fire a guy and promote his mediocre underling. The closest to newblood they get is the occasional outside hire of a positional coach, and usually even then it's someone they know. The organization is stale.

It troubles me that the Steelers thought it was a swell idea to basically recreate the coaching staff from some ****ty Memphis team. I mean, that '96 Memphis squad should have been all-world what with the likes of Tomlin, Butler, and Fitchner on staff. It isn't cronyism at all that it's 2018 and they somehow make up the Steelers coaching triumvirate.

I don't know what this team is on either side of the ball. I do expect a humiliating end to the season. Losing to Oakland like this sadly won't be the worst of it.

[VigilantZombie]

13 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

What exactly does this accomplish? You fire Butler at this stage, you aren't just firing him but the entire defensive staff. There's no one underneath him to promote unless they think the DB coach from Alabama is the guy. Which wouldn't surprise me given how this team makes decisions like this in the last decade or so (hint - I'm not a fan). And if you fire Butler and his staff and bring in an outsider, you are stuck in a position where you have to tell Tomlin hands off the defense. Which is supposedly his specialty what with his one year as a coordinator and all.

[/quote]

Tom Bradley is an experienced Defensive Coordinator at the college level, he made his career at Penn State coaching LBs, a defense that was among the best in the nation during his tenure. He is, imo, the obvious choice to promote to DC should they fire Keith Butler.

13 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

People are saying this team is inconsistent, but they really aren't. Any middling team can say they're inconsistent, but the reality is that they haven't beaten anyone this year. They've struggled against every semi-competent team they faced besides Carolina who they got at home on a short week. That along with the game against Atlanta were their most impressive wins. They were down 21-0 to KC and put up basically garbage time numbers. They were never really threatening to overtake them. The defense had zero answers that day.

The team isn't that talented and they sure as hell don't have a dazzling brilliant mind running things. I mean, you have Antonio Brown and Juju outside, and they spend half their time throwing it horizontally. Meanwhile, they have a pathetic whole in the middle of their defense at ILB and they trot out Coty Sensabaugh as their #2 CB.

From top to bottom the decision makers on this team are up their own ***. I love the let's fire a coordinator and hire his subordinate move! Cowher used to shuffle coordinators like chairs on the deck of the Titanic and the staffs tended to go with them. He also had an actual coaching tree. Now we have fire a guy and promote his mediocre underling. The closest to newblood they get is the occasional outside hire of a positional coach, and usually even then it's someone they know. The organization is stale.

It troubles me that the Steelers thought it was a swell idea to basically recreate the coaching staff from some ****ty Memphis team. I mean, that '96 Memphis squad should have been all-world what with the likes of Tomlin, Butler, and Fitchner on staff. It isn't cronyism at all that it's 2018 and they somehow make up the Steelers coaching triumvirate.

I don't know what this team is on either side of the ball. I do expect a humiliating end to the season. Losing to Oakland like this sadly won't be the worst of it.

Offensively we need our coaching staff to remain the same, however what we also need is to get rid of 90% of the screens being run on 1st and 2nd down.  We also need a real 3rd down back.  I like Samuels as a receiving back and I also think it's ideal to use him in a 2-back set to leave a little 'mystery' to whether they're going to run or pass.  

Defensively we need 2 CBs, 2 ILB's, OLB (depth), a DE (depth), a DT (depth), and a Safety.  We need to get rid of Coty Sensabaugh, Morgan Burnett, Tyler Matakavich, Anthony Chickillo, Marcus Allen, LT Walton, and Daniel McCullers.

 

McCullers has potential in our defense, but he doesn't play anywhere enough to warrant the length of time it's taking for him to actually develop.  Walton is a liability any time he has to play.  Sensabaugh sucks and Chickillo and Mata are JAGs.  We got enough injury issues to deal with as it is, Morgan Burnett's existence on this roster is pointless.

We need, imo, 2 starters at ILB; Vince Williams should not be a starter.  Artie Burns has reached his ceiling him, we need his replacement.  We also need a new starter to replace Sean Davis.  I'm fine with him playing on a limited basis but he is a liability as a primary starter.  Marcus Allen sucks too.

[Livewire]

I would like to change my vote.

[CKSteeler]

Best case scenario is that the Saints decide to rest everyone in week 16.

[3rivers]

17 hours ago, Chieferific said:

The Steelers are in a class by themselves. They can beat any team. They can lose to any team. TO ME that's a coaching issue. I'm not one to call out Tomlin. I think there is a better chance you'd do worse if you tried to replace him. But man is it frustrating. 

They can't beat the chiefs, pats and probably the saints (good run D) .  I doubt they would stand a chance vs the rams, bears (lost to them last year without mack) 

class by themselves, as in if they play their best they can beat almost (se above) anyone, ok, but that isn't the tomlin steelers.  Many other teams when they play their best can say the same thing, it's all about consistency and improving. Many years it's about getting hot late in the season going into the playoffs.

Agree about the coaching miscue resulting in the underachieving . As for replacing him, I would remove colbert first, and then have the scouts and coaches make the draft picks. Get a scheme that suits the players, then see how a coach does. Tomlin deserves heat for his legacy of losing to bad teams, but he can't take all the blame.  I blame him for the lack of control of the players, and in some cases in game adjustments, he deserves blame.  Replacing the coach but leaving the existing flawed system / player sin place won't help the cause. If we go that route we could be a franchise that never gets back on track.

I think the core is there, the team can rebound and be legit.  Colbert has wasted cap in UFA signings burnet, bostic (good player but for different scheme) , and his own signings like boswell and williams.  

I'm not a fan of tomlin like some here are, but I have to share the blame, and what HC would want our ILB's and secondary?   Without the running game from Connor, this team has NO chance

[warfelg]

18 hours ago, Chieferific said:

The Steelers are in a class by themselves. They can beat any team. They can lose to any team. TO ME that's a coaching issue. I'm not one to call out Tomlin. I think there is a better chance you'd do worse if you tried to replace him. But man is it frustrating. 

To me it's not any one issue.  It's coaching, scouting, roster construction, players themselves.  It's a top to bottom issue.

[VigilantZombie]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

To me it's not any one issue.  It's coaching, scouting, roster construction, players themselves.  It's a top to bottom issue.

Another way of saying what you're saying is that it's a complete Organizational issue.  The "room" needs an overhaul.

[warfelg]

6 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Another way of saying what you're saying is that it's a complete Organizational issue.  The "room" needs an overhaul.

The room needs fresh eyes and new opinions.  Have you ever looked at the Steelers front office names?

Art Rooney II, Art Rooney Jr, Kevin Colbert, Omar Khan, Dan Rooney Jr, Dan Colbert, Phil Kreidler, Rick Reiprish, Mark Bruener, Mike Butler, Mark Gorscak.

That's your college scouting group.  Looooots of Rooney and Colbert there.  And Khan has little more to do than tell them how the cap on a move works.

[Chieferific]

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

To me it's not any one issue.  It's coaching, scouting, roster construction, players themselves.  It's a top to bottom issue.

And I hear that BUT as constructed right now this team has the potential to beat anyone. I don't expect it but I truly believe it. They CAN be so explosive Offensively AND Defensively. They can also be dreadfully awful (usually against sub-par teams and the PATS). While I think the scouting and drafting of defensive players could be better, as constructed they are capable of beating anyone imo. To me that's coaching. And you don't hear me dog out Tomlin a lot. I think he's "Ok" and the team would more then likely do worse with a replacement. If you want to divvy up the "blame" I can agree to an extent but the primary reason is coaching to me and not just at the Head coach position.   

[Chieferific]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

The room needs fresh eyes and new opinions.  Have you ever looked at the Steelers front office names?

Art Rooney II, Art Rooney Jr, Kevin Colbert, Omar Khan, Dan Rooney Jr, Dan Colbert, Phil Kreidler, Rick Reiprish, Mark Bruener, Mike Butler, Mark Gorscak.

That's your college scouting group.  Looooots of Rooney and Colbert there.  And Khan has little more to do than tell them how the cap on a move works.

Bruener is on there? No wonder we keep drafting blocking TEs. Replace him with Eric Green. 

[3rivers]

2 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Bruener is on there? No wonder we keep drafting blocking TEs. Replace him with Eric Green. 

How about Heath instead of Green? Maybe rooney should step back, fire colbert and get former players at positions to do the scouting. IOW, hire several new people.  They need to dissect the several bad picks in recent time and learn who went wrong. Instead of just the scouts grading the players, it's time for us to grade the scouts for their picks . 

[warfelg]

8 hours ago, Chieferific said:

And I hear that BUT as constructed right now this team has the potential to beat anyone. I don't expect it but I truly believe it. They CAN be so explosive Offensively AND Defensively. They can also be dreadfully awful (usually against sub-par teams and the PATS). While I think the scouting and drafting of defensive players could be better, as constructed they are capable of beating anyone imo. To me that's coaching. And you don't hear me dog out Tomlin a lot. I think he's "Ok" and the team would more then likely do worse with a replacement. If you want to divvy up the "blame" I can agree to an extent but the primary reason is coaching to me and not just at the Head coach position.   

But as I saw someone else say, in addition to having the potential to beat anyone we have the potential to lose poorly to anyone.

Like I said, it's everything. We can't sit here and complain about Bostic, Williams, Dupree, Sensabaugh, Davis, Burns, and all these defensive players; then say the issue is mostly coaching.  That tells me at least equal blame needs to be put on management for not finding a way to get better players.  As much as it can be coaching, some of these players likely are successful as they can be or won't find more success elsewhere.  Like believe it or not, this is the best Sensabaugh has ever played.  And this isn't the first time that's been said.

And I add in players themselves.  After every loss like this they always talk about how they come out so flat.  I'm sorry as much as people say it's about the coach, that's also a reflection of the leadership and players themselves.  You are handing onto hope for a bye and need every win in the NFL and you can't get hyped without help?!? There's like 52 FA's out there right now that would run through a wall to even play the worst teams in the NFL.  These are grown *** men (sorry mods - this one needed it) who don't need another man to get them hyped up.  I kinda feel it's a reflection of Ben too.  Just listen to Ben in week and games against easier opponents, he's not really hyped, he's just calm and basically chalking it up already.  When he's playing a better defense he's super into breaking it down, talking about where the matchup is, and what to take on.  When he's chalking it up in week he's been bad, when he's into it he's been good.

[warfelg]

Sorry @Chieferific that was you that said it about being able to win or lose to anyone.

8 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Bruener is on there? No wonder we keep drafting blocking TEs. Replace him with Eric Green. 

As for this, there are very few guys from outside the 'Steelers Family' that are part of their scouting department.  It's Colbert/Rooney ties, ex-players, and sons or former scouts.  Well that's the crap that needs to stop.  The FO is nepotism central.  I'm just tired of the same ole same ole thinking it will work, but little acknowledgement that there's issues starting at the top.  Fresh blood and fresh voices are needed in that FO.

[3rivers]

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

Sorry @Chieferific that was you that said it about being able to win or lose to anyone.

As for this, there are very few guys from outside the 'Steelers Family' that are part of their scouting department.  It's Colbert/Rooney ties, ex-players, and sons or former scouts.  Well that's the crap that needs to stop.  The FO is nepotism central.  I'm just tired of the same ole same ole thinking it will work, but little acknowledgement that there's issues starting at the top.  Fresh blood and fresh voices are needed in that FO.

this is the problem. Outside the gifts and sure fire picks, the draft has been a disappointment. AB is a maniac, and deserves much credit for that but they did draft him.  I would like the scouts to be former players (ours or from other teams) and not the current regime.  The our coaches have to add their grade to the possible picks for their respective positions since they are coaching them.  I doubt Rod Woodson would have recommended burns in first 3 rounds never mind RD1.  I could be wrong, Lake liked players that never took off , so who knows. The player has to be critical to be a coach, some might not have that in them.