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Broncofan

WR Emmanuel Sanders tears Achilles, on IR

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1 hour ago, broncofan48 said:

One guy who might be there 2nd round that I really like is DK Metcalf.  If healthy I think he’s gonna be super good.  Pairing with Sutton would give Denver 2 massive and athletic WRs

That would be a dream scenario.  Sadly I think if he’s healthy enough to make the Combine his measurables are going to blow ppl away.   Literally AJG skill set.  Praying he stays under the radar.  

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7 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

That would be a dream scenario.  Sadly I think if he’s healthy enough to make the Combine his measurables are going to blow ppl away.   Literally AJG skill set.  Praying he stays under the radar.  

Yeah if he passes physicals he’s probably going first round but wouldn’t mind him there either 

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I personally think Denver is going QB in round 1 or 2 this year.  WR is now more of a need than it was when Sanders was healthy, but this team still has other needs and I don’t know that WR all of a sudden trumps them.

All the talk of waiting until 2020 for a QB sounds great, but if Denver improves they won’t be in position to get one of those guys without mortgaging huge future capital, which may be worth it, but comes with as much risk as taking a Herbert, Haskins, or Jones with a mid to late pick in the teens this year.

CB, IMO, is the 2nd biggest need.  Then OL and DL could definitely use more talented youth and I throw WR in that 2nd tier mix.  LB could also use a more complete player, but is also a position you can remedy with situational guys.

Edited by germ-x

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24 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I personally think Denver is going QB in round 1 or 2 this year.  WR is now more of a need than it was when Sanders was healthy, but this team still has other needs and I don’t know that WR all of a sudden trumps them.

All the talk of waiting until 2020 for a QB sounds great, but if Denver improves they won’t be in position to get one of those guys without mortgaging huge future capital, which may be worth it, but comes with as much risk as taking a Herbert, Haskins, or Jones with a mid to late pick in the teens this year.

CB, IMO, is the 2nd biggest need.  Then OL and DL could definitely use more talented youth and I throw WR in that 2nd tier mix.  LB could also use a more complete player, but is also a position you can remedy with situational guys.

FWIW, when I said I think DEN could go early for WR - I include Rd2 in that assessment.    Certainly way earlier than when Stewart fit nicely in our 2019-and-then-goodbye plans.

Let's face it, I nor anyone else have no idea what Elway's going to do.    But I  also don't think we're going to see 2 of those 3 QB's when we pick, and need with the teams ahead of us may in fact drive all 3 to be gone before we pick, FWIW (Herbert's increasingly being tied to staying in school, while Haskins' rise to top QB in 2019 is gaining a ton of steam - which of course, puts us out of the running by a mile).   Just keep that in mind. 

There's no great ILB that's a game changer, it can wait for sure.  The strength of this draft is the trenches, and CB has enough depth BPA can be justified Rd1...but it's also pretty deep in truly game-changing WR's.   WR can definitely be justified in the late teens, or in the 40-50 range, too.    

I think the reality of QB is going to be tied to whether VJ stays (the 2 are becoming more & more intertwined) - if he goes, the new HC is definitely going to get a new guy - the question is just whether it's Rd1, Rd2, or at latest, Rd3.   If VJ keeps his job, though, it's going to be a justification for the status quo...which trust me, doesn't make me at all happy with regards to Keenum being a lock for 2019, but it is what it is (VJ & Keenum are kinda joined at the hip fate-wise).   On the other hand....it avoids the mega reach this year in Rd1 which then commits us to a 3-year purgatory if the guy's as bad a reach as Lynch was in 2016.

Edited by Broncofan

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Personally I'm far more interested in how our young guys, Hamilton, Cracraft and Patrick respond than who we might draft next year. 

So far our coaching staff has really surprised me with how well our backups have performed. I'm kind of expecting the same this week with Manny and CHJ both out. Time for the youngsters to shine.

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6 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Personally I'm far more interested in how our young guys, Hamilton, Cracraft and Patrick respond than who we might draft next year. 

So far our coaching staff has really surprised me with how well our backups have performed. I'm kind of expecting the same this week with Manny and CHJ both out. Time for the youngsters to shine.

Hamilton should do OK, as long as he's not taken out of the slot role - that's where he wins.   Patrick is going to be the one tested the most, since I'd imagine he'll be going out wide.   Eventually Holmes may break into the rotation, but that's going to take at least 1-2 weeks for him to assimilate the playbook.   

FWIW, if there was a week where they should succeed, it's this one.   SF is as vulnerable a secondary as we'll face (OAK being close in not being able to generate any pass rush, no secondary can keep coverage for 4+ secs).   

Edited by Broncofan

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1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

FWIW, when I said I think DEN could go early for WR - I include Rd2 in that assessment.    Certainly way earlier than when Stewart fit nicely in our 2019-and-then-goodbye plans.

Let's face it, I nor anyone else have no idea what Elway's going to do.    But I  also don't think we're going to see 2 of those 3 guys when we pick, and need may in fact drive all 3 as gone before we do, FWIW.   

There's no great ILB that's a game changer, it can wait for sure.  The strength of this draft is the trenches, and CB has enough depth BPA can be justified Rd1...but it's also pretty deep in truly game-changing WR's.   WR can definitely be justified in the late teens, or in the 40-50 range, too.    

I think the reality of QB is going to be tied to whether VJ stays (the 2 are becoming more & more intertwined) - if he goes, the new HC is definitely going to get a new guy - the question is just whether it's Rd1, Rd2, or at latest, Rd3.   If VJ keeps his job, though, it's going to be a justification for the status quo...which trust me, doesn't make me at all happy with regards to Keenum being a lock for 2019.  

No I get all that.  But what I am saying is QB in 2019 compared to 2020 isn’t black and white.

No doubt, Denver could go any number of directions round 1 and be justified.  They could use trench help and a CB, this draft is loaded there no doubt.  Hell they could double up with 2 guys rounds 1 and 2 with the depth at those positions.  Though, I think going into 2020 Denver is a very similar team to this year, sitting around that 8-8 mark.  The appeal of the 2020 QB class is the top end talent (Fromm/Tua) who will be long gone by the time an 8-8 team picks.  There are other QBs that could be selected, but then your getting into more project players, much like this class.  So unless Denver mortgages the future to get Fromm/Tua (again as risky as taking Herbert, Haskins, Jones) the whole concept of waiting until 2020 makes no sense.

Taking Herbert, Haskins, Jones this year, letting them sit half or a full year behind Keenum and using 2020 picks to fortify the other needs outside QB really isn’t any different than trying to save up for one in 2020. 

Further, you can’t bank on future years.  Sure, keep an eye on it, but there is no guarantee Denver’s in a better position next year to take a QB than they are this year. 

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16 minutes ago, germ-x said:

No I get all that.  But what I am saying is QB in 2019 compared to 2020 isn’t black and white.

No doubt, Denver could go any number of directions round 1 and be justified.  They could use trench help and a CB, this draft is loaded there no doubt.  Hell they could double up with 2 guys rounds 1 and 2 with the depth at those positions.  Though, I think going into 2020 Denver is a very similar team to this year, sitting around that 8-8 mark.  The appeal of the 2020 QB class is the top end talent (Fromm/Tua) who will be long gone by the time an 8-8 team picks.  There are other QBs that could be selected, but then your getting into more project players, much like this class.  So unless Denver mortgages the future to get Fromm/Tua (again as risky as taking Herbert, Haskins, Jones) the whole concept of waiting until 2020 makes no sense.

Taking Herbert, Haskins, Jones this year, letting them sit half or a full year behind Keenum and using 2020 picks to fortify the other needs outside QB really isn’t any different than trying to save up for one in 2020. 

Further, you can’t bank on future years.  Sure, keep an eye on it, but there is no guarantee Denver’s in a better position next year to take a QB than they are this year. 

Well, you've been a big proponent of paying whatever it takes if the only thing you have left is QB to get - even if we're not in a better position pick-wise in 2020...if we are more complete, we'll be in a better position to pay the piper to move up - something you've also advocated for if the right situation came up.   I actually agree with that take, if the guy is a true franchise guy...and even more so if the team is complete enough where a QB makes us a legitimate contender    We've disagreed on the past on if we really are the latter, but we both agree on the 1st principle.   

Re: your 2019 scenario, the problem with saying 2019 isn't a whole lot worse than 2020 -  even though I'm not completely sold on either, I also don't for a second believe Herbert or Haskins will make it even close to us now that we are locked into a mid-late teens pick, TBH.   And if Herbert stays in school, I think what we will be left with facing us Rd1 will have us squinting really hard to see franchise QB...and only out of need.   I don't think Jones should go earlier than Rd2 most years....but I'm also cognizent of the fact he could actually be gone when we pick (I mean, if Herbert stays...it's a total crapshoot who goes after Haskins goes early - I do lend credence to the notion NYG is going Haskins if Herbert isn't coming out, and might be re-thinking Herbert as their 1 guy - GM Gettleman isn't afraid to go physical-tools-above-all-else with his 2011 1.1 Cam selection).

I'm projecting how I see the Big Board, which is an exercise in futility for most positions this far back (and it certainly changes as the underclassmen make their decisions, and the Combine/Senior Bowl info adds to the process, but that's part of the fun) - except for QB.   That's pretty projectable at least in determining which teams are locking in.  The only X-factor now (more come later) is Herbert may be staying.  To say that would reduce our best options to nil is an understatement.   At least, 2 if not 3 guys are going before we pick - as bad as the class is, the need is just that bad (and the lack of cap room is forcing at least 2 teams besides NYG to consider QB Rd1 hard who look destined to pick ahead of us now - WAS <OMG freefall city for them coming up> & JAX). 

Either way, though - let's pick this up later - don't want to derail the Sanders thread too much more for this lol.   We'll also have a TON more info after we know who's declaring, and where we pick, and who's ahead of us who are likely even more locked into QB.

Edited by Broncofan

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9 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Hamilton should do OK, as long as he's not taken out of the slot role - that's where he wins.   Patrick is going to be the one tested the most, since I'd imagine he'll be going out wide.   Eventually Holmes may break into the rotation, but that's going to take at least 1-2 weeks for him to assimilate the playbook.   

FWIW, if there was a week where they should succeed, it's this one.   SF is as vulnerable a secondary as we'll face (OAK being close in not being able to generate any pass rush, no secondary can keep coverage for 4+ secs).   

Excited to see these young guys have to step up!

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I think its pretty foolish to assume any of the young guys, even Sutton, ever become the caliber of player that Manny was. I dont see us taking a WR early (IMO we go BPA in R1 and overdraft a QB in R2), but we will need to fill this loss from the outside. Sutton is going to be an elite deep threat but he leaves alot to be desired in the 1st/2nd level. Hamilton has been hyped to all hell since TC, but even after DT was booted he sits at 5 catches for the year and was always seen by this staff as a pure slot guy IMO. Tim Patrick is a nice piece that also gets some ST work done, but he is mid 20's and a replacement level guy. It will be nice to see if Tim or Hamilton can stand out, but I wont hold my breath on either.

Make no mistake, this team will desperatley need a WR after losing Manny. This is absolutley huge. He was our clear cut 2nd best offensive player this season after Lindsay.

I hope we target a somewhat young guy in FA; Funchess, Moncreif, Conley, Enunwa. Whoever comes cheapest.

Then again, Manny is a freaking beast so for all we know he could recover in unheard of time. One can hope.

Edited by BroncosFan2010

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2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I think its pretty foolish to assume any of the young guys, even Sutton, ever become the caliber of player that Manny was. I dont see us taking a WR early (IMO we go BPA in R1 and overdraft a QB in R2), but we will need to fill this loss from the outside. Sutton is going to be an elite deep threat but he leaves alot to be desired in the 1st/2nd level. Hamilton has been hyped to all hell since TC, but even after DT was booted he sits at 5 catches for the year and was always seen by this staff as a pure slot guy IMO. Tim Patrick is a nice piece that also gets some ST work done, but he is mid 20's and a replacement level guy. It will be nice to see if Tim or Hamilton can stand out, but I wont hold my breath on either.

Make no mistake, this team will desperatley need a WR after losing Manny. This is absolutley huge. He was our clear cut 2nd best offensive player this season after Lindsay.

I hope we target a somewhat young guy in FA; Funchess, Moncreif, Conley, Enunwa. Whoever comes cheapest.

Then again, Manny is a freaking beast so for all we know he could recover in unheard of time. One can hope.

Yeah don’t get me wrong - my optimism on Sutton & Hamilton was also predicated on keeping their roles.  Sanders was supposed to still be the guy.   He’s the chess piece we move around to exploit matchups and also could still succeed when he was the focus of the top CB / bracket.   And he could win short or deep.   You don’t find guys like that everyday and certainly not at 9-10M.   After 2019 if both progressed enough you could walk away at age 32 if signs of decline were apparent.  But it was a no brainer to have him be the guy entering 2019.  Without that type of injury, it was even possible his play would remain high - that skill profile normally ages much better than a physical style (losing short area quicks though is a killer).   Sutton still has quite a bit of development left and at peak he isn’t likely to be as versatile and beats teams in a variety of ways like Sanders does now. 

FWIW I don’t see Enunwa leaving the Jets they have tons of $$ and need weapons to help Darnold.    Moncrief chased the $ in FA with JAX so he doesn’t seem likely given he likely chases the $ again.  A huge no thanks on Funchess - big body who doesn’t separate anymore.   Would not give us a different skill guy than Sutton’s (and Sutton higher ceiling obv) so don’t want that.  His play is starting to slip.   Conley is the one intriguing FA name because he can win both short and deep.  Sadly I think that’s why he will be in demand.   After that it’s pretty ugly.  The WR FA class is just ugly all around.      It’s why I don’t see FA as a great option. 

It’s why I really think Elway has to consider Rd 2 for the WR position.  Probably the deepest since 2014 (hard to match that lol).   This is a really good WR1 draft,  and that depth means someone could fall who should be a Rd1 guy.  Now the problem - year 1 takes time. But the potential payoff would be amazing.   That would likely mean going QB Rd3 though.  And I get why that’s not appealing too.  Man, this injury really puts a huge monkey wrench into our long term plans.  

Edited by Broncofan

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Bumped into DaeSean a couple times during his first two seasons at Penn State. Really excited to see what he can do for you guys. His play style reminds me of a Jarvis Landry

Edited by Danger

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21 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Is golden tate an option ? 

Clearly the top WR on the market.  And mostly a slot guy.  Bad fit on both fronts Elway rarely sets the market. 

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14 hours ago, Broncofan said:

  I think the reality of QB is going to be tied to whether VJ stays (the 2 are becoming more & more intertwined) - if he goes, the new HC is definitely going to get a new guy - the question is just whether it's Rd1, Rd2, or at latest, Rd3.  

Why is it a foregone conclusion that the new HC will get his guy immediately? The job still has appeal even without assurances that DEN goes QB early in the '19 draft.

I guess I'm asking why couldn't there be an agreement that the new HC will get his guy..  but that the realities of the '19 draft aren't favorable on the QB front-  a la Kyle Shannahan taking the HC job in SF after the '16 season

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