Fl0nkerton Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: Sorry I hurt your feelings, sweetie. On the contrary. I will not be losing sleep over who is cast for what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 hours ago, Fl0nkerton said: On the contrary. I will not be losing sleep over who is cast for what. No, but you were clearly triggered because I dont like it...which is why I phrased it the way I did. It's not the casting I care about as much as the portrayal. Why not just make her an original character rather than completely butcher a well-established character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Deadpulse said: idk, if their intention was to make Zendaya the main love interest throughout the run and it wasnt some version of MJ it probably wouldnt go over well. Honestly those who see this the same way as you is probably smaller than the demo that'd be upset over no MJ at all. Well, the majority of moviegoers are casual Spider-Man fans who don't know much about MJ. Obviously people who know what her character is supposed to be are going to like her less. So in that regard, I agree with you. but you could have said the same thing about Lex Luthor in Batman v Superman. Most of the people who complained about Lex were fans who knew the character well. Bottom line... just because some people don't care or realize a character is being butchered doesn't mean it isn't happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 9 hours ago, dtait93 said: Spider-Man: Homecoming is near the bottom of my Marvel movie rankings. It just didn't do anything for me at all. i love it, mainly for the antagonist. Vulture felt more real to me than most of the other villains we've seen in the rest of the series. I also like they didn't start from the beginning (origin story), like they did for just about every other character. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 58 minutes ago, theJ said: i love it, mainly for the antagonist. Vulture felt more real to me than most of the other villains we've seen in the rest of the series. I also like they didn't start from the beginning (origin story), like they did for just about every other character. Interesting, Vulture was one of the reasons I didn't like it. Someone like Scorpion, Rhino, or Electro would have really got my attention if they did them well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said: Bottom line... just because some people don't care or realize a character is being butchered doesn't mean it isn't happening. Perception is reality, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: Perception is reality, right? Sure, and ignorance is bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said: 55 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: Perception is reality, right? Sure, and ignorance is bliss. Im sorry my post was largely political in that some in today's climate push perception over reality. Im not actually suggesting that its a good strategy to utilize. I will say this on the matter though. I am an avid comic reader, always have been, always will be. I have read most Spiderman books (there is an ungodly amount). What I can say with some certainty is that MJ has morphed and changed a LOT throughout Spidey history. In my opinion, there isnt a different medium outing that has captured the "traditional" MJ yet (traditional meaning what most see the character as). Also in my opinion, there is no traditional MJ. Before Gwen died, she was a pretty unlikable character. That was her first big change where she went from basic relies on her beauty type to an actual 3D character. To me, this is another version of the Luke Skywalker debate. These characters have endured for decades and, as I have already hinted at, its impossible to have read or seen every depiction of them. Naturally, people cling to certain versions of the characters but with so many writers putting their two cents in over that long a period of time in several different mediums its difficult to really hammer down anything but the big notes. Sometimes writers go a different way than what some people want. It happens in comics OFTEN, and MJ is actually a decent example of that. I guess as someone who has read comics all his life, I have gotten used to the idea of characters going in directions I might not like or changed in a way that doesn't fit my preferred iteration. This is especially true when comics are adapted to other mediums. It has made me more accepting of creative freedoms and I am apt to give Zendaya and the writing team a chance to make MJ their own. I already like their version of Flash (which is radically different than anything in the comics EVER). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Deadpulse said: Im sorry my post was largely political in that some in today's climate push perception over reality. Im not actually suggesting that its a good strategy to utilize. I will say this on the matter though. I am an avid comic reader, always have been, always will be. I have read most Spiderman books (there is an ungodly amount). What I can say with some certainty is that MJ has morphed and changed a LOT throughout Spidey history. In my opinion, there isnt a different medium outing that has captured the "traditional" MJ yet (traditional meaning what most see the character as). Also in my opinion, there is no traditional MJ. Before Gwen died, she was a pretty unlikable character. That was her first big change where she went from basic relies on her beauty type to an actual 3D character. To me, this is another version of the Luke Skywalker debate. These characters have endured for decades and, as I have already hinted at, its impossible to have read or seen every depiction of them. Naturally, people cling to certain versions of the characters but with so many writers putting their two cents in over that long a period of time in several different mediums its difficult to really hammer down anything but the big notes. Sometimes writers go a different way than what some people want. It happens in comics OFTEN, and MJ is actually a decent example of that. I guess as someone who has read comics all his life, I have gotten used to the idea of characters going in directions I might not like or changed in a way that doesn't fit my preferred iteration. This is especially true when comics are adapted to other mediums. It has made me more accepting of creative freedoms and I am apt to give Zendaya and the writing team a chance to make MJ their own. I already like their version of Flash (which is radically different than anything in the comics EVER). Great post. I respect your stance, but I guess I'm just a fan of the traditional and most common takes on characters. Not that I'm not open minded to certain changes, but this change to her makes her come across like a COMPLETELY different and unrecognizable character. Goes back to Lex Luthor in BvS...you could argue that they used a lot of influence from early comics where he was quirky with wild red hair. I hated that take and I'm not a fan of this either. However, MJ isn't QUITE important enough of a character to me for it to hurt the movie if the rest of it is good. Edited January 17, 2019 by FourThreeMafia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 9 hours ago, dtait93 said: Interesting, Vulture was one of the reasons I didn't like it. Someone like Scorpion, Rhino, or Electro would have really got my attention if they did them well. I like my villains to have understandable motives. I thought they really set him up well by showing his slight turn into crime. It was a scene that we can all relate to with a big bully coming in and taking over. It made his 180 as a complete villain more believable. I didn't care so much about the abilities of the villain. To me the abilities can be almost anything, as long as it's set up well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJ Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I kind of wish they hadn't released this trailer (and even announced the movie) until after Endgame. But at least RDJ wasn't in the trailer. That would have really ruined things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 hours ago, dtait93 said: 12 hours ago, theJ said: i love it, mainly for the antagonist. Vulture felt more real to me than most of the other villains we've seen in the rest of the series. I also like they didn't start from the beginning (origin story), like they did for just about every other character. Interesting, Vulture was one of the reasons I didn't like it. Someone like Scorpion, Rhino, or Electro would have really got my attention if they did them well. I kind of agree with both of you. I liked Vulture because he was a more personal villain. He didn't have some grand aspirations for himself, he was just trying to make a living. He was a great solo movie villain. On the other hand, Spider Man has so many good villains and I really want a live action Scorpion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, skywindO2 said: On the other hand, Spider Man has so many good villains and I really want a live action Scorpion. The Scorpion with the mechanical tail would be cliche now. It's like Doc Oc's arms, Goblins' gliders, or Vulture's wings. I think Chameleon and Mr. Negative have a lot of potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, freak_of_nature said: The Scorpion with the mechanical tail would be cliche now. It's like Doc Oc's arms, Goblins' gliders, or Vulture's wings. I think Chameleon and Mr. Negative have a lot of potential. Cliche because its mechanical/tech? Seems to broad a brush. However, my most wanted Spider villain is someone you might approve: Kraven the Hunter please and thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Deadpulse said: Cliche because its mechanical/tech? Seems to broad a brush. However, my most wanted Spider villain is someone you might approve: Kraven the Hunter please and thank you. It's cliche if it's a mechanical extension of the person with an animal theme: Octopus, Vulture, Scorpion. I was never into Kraven, but I think it'd be refreshing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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