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Should Zimmer be on the hot seat? And is Spielman gone?

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Just a question, I don't know the answer, but how much "evaluating" does a GM do for the talent they are drafting?  How much of the evaluating is done by the scouts and others under the GM? 

Also curious how much influence Zimmer has on who's drafted.  Not sure anyone really honestly knows that.

I really like Zimmer and Spielman as people.  I get the frustration.  But I've also seen a lot worse over the years.

One thing someone mentioned earlier in this thread was that Zimmer didn't seem to be getting the team "up" for the big games.  Just last week I was thinking about how Zimmer was hired as this "spitting fire and crapping thunder" kind of coach, yet he's pretty mellow as a head coach.  I just sense our opponents are more fired up and motivated than we are.  That we're just relying on talent to pull us through.  Does anyone else feel that way?

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone."

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GMs likely do a lot of evaluating. There’s a difference between scouting and evaluating. From interviews over the years with Spielman, and other various GMs, they watch an incredible amount of tape and make evaluations. But they are likely doing so with a scout’s notebook in front of them. From what I’ve read over the years, scouts have a fairly generic way of scouting a player, hence why so many scouts remain in place despite a GM/coaching shakeup, but it’s the GM and coaches who take a scouting report and evaluate whether or not a player fits in with what they want for the team. 

As for Zimmer’s influence. It’s seems pretty high, if you believe the interviews with him and Spielman around draft time. They’ve both talked about well it seems that they know what types of players the other wants. We’ve certainly read and seen a number of stories about their chemistry over the past couple of seasons. Spielman has final say, but he seems to take a lot of input from Zimmer. 

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1 hour ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

Zimmer needs to find consistency within this team. 2014....missed playoffs. 2015.....win the division. 2016....missed the playoffs (after a 5-0 start). 2017....playoffs. 2018.....it's not unrealistic that we miss the playoffs. We have waaaayyyyyy too much talent to only be in the playoffs every other year.

This is an annoying trend. Agreed with the bold.

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20 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

This is an annoying trend. Agreed with the bold.

But, they've only truly reached the "bold" the last 2 years.  It can be argued that, prior to that, they were lacking in talent at certain key positions.  It wasn't that long ago (and when Zimmer was HC) that we were arguing here about whether they had the worst depth chart at WR in the NFL.  Now they have one of the best tandems at WR in the entire NFL.  The same could be said about the depth at CB and the D-Line 2-3 years ago. 

Maybe you could say that from here on out they have too much talent to only be in the playoffs every other year, but you certainly can't say they had too much talent in the past to not make the playoffs when they didn't.  Otherwise, you clearly are suffering from revisionist history syndrome.

Edited by swede700

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1 hour ago, since72 said:

Just a question, I don't know the answer, but how much "evaluating" does a GM do for the talent they are drafting?  How much of the evaluating is done by the scouts and others under the GM? 

Also curious how much influence Zimmer has on who's drafted.  Not sure anyone really honestly knows that.

I really like Zimmer and Spielman as people.  I get the frustration.  But I've also seen a lot worse over the years.

One thing someone mentioned earlier in this thread was that Zimmer didn't seem to be getting the team "up" for the big games.  Just last week I was thinking about how Zimmer was hired as this "spitting fire and crapping thunder" kind of coach, yet he's pretty mellow as a head coach.  I just sense our opponents are more fired up and motivated than we are.  That we're just relying on talent to pull us through.  Does anyone else feel that way?

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone."

I see Spielman as responsible for all the players the Vikings acquire. I assume he's both doing some evaluating and choosing the scouts that he relies on for evaluating. Either way, the talent is his responsibility.

 

I try not to look at specific aspects, I look at overall success. I don't care if Zimmer gets players fired up, I care if his teams win.

 

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I think Spielman is ranked higher among his peers than Zimmer is of his. 

Failure to make the playoffs would be a disaster but I don't think either would lose their jobs. But it has to be more than just making the playoffs. The Vikes need to show they belong but it seems the Vikes will be getting in through the backdoor since a 6th team hasn't really emerged in the NFC.

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48 minutes ago, swede700 said:

But, they've only truly reached the "bold" the last 2 years.  It can be argued that, prior to that, they were lacking in talent at certain key positions.  It wasn't that long ago (and when Zimmer was HC) that we were arguing here about whether they had the worst depth chart at WR in the NFL.  Now they have one of the best tandems at WR in the entire NFL.  The same could be said about the depth at CB and the D-Line 2-3 years ago. 

Maybe you could say that from here on out they have too much talent to only be in the playoffs every other year, but you certainly can't say they had too much talent in the past to not make the playoffs when they didn't.  Otherwise, you clearly are suffering from revisionist history syndrome.

Very valid rebuttal. 

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13 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

The Vikes need to show they belong but it seems the Vikes will be getting in through the backdoor since a 6th team hasn't really emerged in the NFC.

A win tonight puts them in the driver's seat for the 5th seed with an outside shot at the division (I think GB can beat CHI next weekend), hardly sneaking in through the backdoor. Yet. 

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19 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

A win tonight puts them in the driver's seat for the 5th seed with an outside shot at the division (I think GB can beat CHI next weekend), hardly sneaking in through the backdoor. Yet. 

Agreed.  I think they can win tonight, but we'll just have to wait and see.  Even if they lose, they'll still be favorites to get the #6 spot.  But, they do need to win as a confidence booster.  If anything, they should win in order to guarantee a trip to Dallas instead of a trip to Chicago.  

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1 minute ago, swede700 said:

If anything, they should win in order to guarantee a trip to Dallas instead of a trip to Chicago. 

Which would be much preferred from this fan.

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33 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

A win tonight puts them in the driver's seat for the 5th seed with an outside shot at the division (I think GB can beat CHI next weekend), hardly sneaking in through the backdoor. Yet. 

I agree but winning tonight, on the road against Seattle might be more of a challenge than last week given how hot Seattle is and the Vikes track record during night games. 

Those night games on the west coast can be difficult for the road team. A win would be huge but I haven't seen any signs that MN is capable of pulling it off.

Edited by vikingsrule

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14 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

I agree but winning tonight, on the road against Seattle might be more of a challenge than last week given how hot Seattle is and the Vikes track record during night games. 

Those night games on the west coast can be difficult for the road team. A win would be huge but I haven't seen any signs that MN is capable of pulling it off.

Definitely one of the tougher games on the schedule. 

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1 hour ago, vikingsrule said:

I agree but winning tonight, on the road against Seattle might be more of a challenge than last week given how hot Seattle is and the Vikes track record during night games. 

Those night games on the west coast can be difficult for the road team. A win would be huge but I haven't seen any signs that MN is capable of pulling it off.

I personally think last week's game was far tougher than this one will be.  It doesn't mean they'll win, but I think they'll do far better than they have, because they are built to win this type of game...a game against a run-heavy team.

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3 hours ago, swede700 said:

But, they've only truly reached the "bold" the last 2 years.  It can be argued that, prior to that, they were lacking in talent at certain key positions.  It wasn't that long ago (and when Zimmer was HC) that we were arguing here about whether they had the worst depth chart at WR in the NFL.  Now they have one of the best tandems at WR in the entire NFL.  The same could be said about the depth at CB and the D-Line 2-3 years ago. 

Maybe you could say that from here on out they have too much talent to only be in the playoffs every other year, but you certainly can't say they had too much talent in the past to not make the playoffs when they didn't.  Otherwise, you clearly are suffering from revisionist history syndrome.

Good points but I'd say the past 3 seasons ( we have the team to make the playoffs. We were the best team in the league in 2016 until that bye week in week 6 and we absolutely fell apart after.

I'd say from here on out...there's no excuses to not make the playoffs.

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4 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

As for Zimmer’s influence. It’s seems pretty high, if you believe the interviews with him and Spielman around draft time. They’ve both talked about well it seems that they know what types of players the other wants. We’ve certainly read and seen a number of stories about their chemistry over the past couple of seasons. Spielman has final say, but he seems to take a lot of input from Zimmer. 

I see Zimmer's input being more player types and skill sets than specific players. 

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