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Countstuku

Should Zimmer be on the hot seat? And is Spielman gone?

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26 minutes ago, Klomp said:

I see Zimmer's input being more player types and skill sets than specific players. 

Agreed.

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Thank goodness I was at a John Gorka concert last night and missed the game!  It's a good thing that I do not own this team...because I would be sorely tempted to fire the lot of them...front office and coaching staff!  However, calmer now, I would give Zimmer one more season to right the ship.  I would promote Spielman to VP of football operations with absolutely no authority other than to give his opinion.  I would hire a GM, perhaps a former headcoach, who is a better evaluator of lineman talent.  I most certainly would fire JDF right now and give Stefanski an opportunity.  I don't think this team is going to make the playoffs as I don't see the team beating the Dolphins or the Bears.  Zimmer has not had this team firing on all cylinders since the Jets game...and that was against...well, the Jets.  I think they are pretty much tanking offensively...and perhaps they should!  Tanking in order to avoid a complete embarrassment in a Wild Card game and to get earlier picks in the draft. 

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Interesting they had an article in the tribune about this yesterday. I do think zimmer will get one more season. I think spielman should go. But as controversial as this sounds I would say zimmer is no longer a dc he’s a head coach and needs better input and stop blaming the oc.

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I think Zimmer and all involved haven’t ignored the OL. As much as I’d like to see higher draft picks spent on the line, we d try to address the issue through free agency. We even took a shot at Kelechi Osemele. So to say Spielman and Zimmer are oblivious isnt quite right. They seemed to have whiffed on Remmers and realistically need to draft/FA two guards and look to a competition at C if better guards don’t improve Elf’s play. 

It’s been an incredibly frustrating season. Hiring JDF was a mistake. Glad Zimmer made the move. Not all is lost because we made some mistakes and our OL coach died, which people are saying ha a bigger impact on the team than people think. 

In short, I think Zimmer can lead us to the big game. But there’s a tremendous amount of things that can and do go wrong in a multivariate world. 

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2 hours ago, Countstuku said:

Interesting they had an article in the tribune about this yesterday. I do think zimmer will get one more season. I think spielman should go. But as controversial as this sounds I would say zimmer is no longer a dc he’s a head coach and needs better input and stop blaming the oc.

First of all, welcome to Football's Future.  This is the first time I've seen your posts on the forum. 

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you.  I think Mike Zimmer is one of the best coaches in the league, and the Vikings would be absolutely crazy to get rid of a coach like him.  As far as Spielman is concerned, I think he has also done a very good job putting the team together.  I wouldn't want to see him go.

 

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2019 is going to be the make or break year for Zimmer and Spielman, as both of their contracts are up after the year (even though contracts are meaningless when it comes to front office personnel and coaches).

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31 minutes ago, milanb said:

I think this is a conversation best left for the end of the season.

It's a fair conversation to be had now, but it's not really a conversation to be had period, as far as I am concerned.  As I indicated previously, an organization that would consider firing a HC with a near .600 winning percentage wouldn't deserve to win a Super Bowl.  

Edited by swede700

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45 minutes ago, swede700 said:

It's a fair conversation to be had now, but it's not really a conversation to be had period, as far as I am concerned.  As I indicated previously, an organization that would consider firing a HC with a near .600 winning percentage wouldn't deserve to win a Super Bowl.  

I can think of several examples over the past two decades where coaches with very good records were fired and their team went on to win the Super Bowl within a few years. The Ravens (Brian Billick),  the Bucs (Tony Dungy), the Broncos (Mike Shanahan), the Colts (Jim Mora), the Seahawks (Mike Holmgren) all spring to mind.

 

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3 minutes ago, milanb said:

I can think of several examples over the past two decades where coaches with very good records were fired and their team went on to win the Super Bowl within a few years. The Ravens (Brian Billick),  the Bucs (Tony Dungy), the Broncos (Mike Shanahan), the Colts (Jim Mora), the Seahawks (Mike Holmgren) all spring to mind.

 

2 out of his last 3 years, Billick won 6 games or less. 

Dungy repeatedly lost in the playoffs (and really never should have been fired by the Bucs, since despite winning the Super Bowl a year later, they never have truly recovered from it)

Shanahan spent 14 years as HC and EVP of the Broncos, he had just run his course. 

Mora would have been retained if he had been willing to fire Vic Fangio (of all people, ironically).  He didn't, so he got canned and replaced by Dungy. 

Holmgren had full control of the Seahawks and collapsed to a 4-12 record.  

None of those situations, as far as I'm concerned, are even relatively similar to the Vikings' situation.  The only one remotely similar is Dungy's...and he went on to win a Super Bowl in Indianapolis, all the while his former team also won a Super Bowl, but then has really been a non-factor for over 15 years.

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2 hours ago, swede700 said:

It's a fair conversation to be had now, but it's not really a conversation to be had period, as far as I am concerned.  As I indicated previously, an organization that would consider firing a HC with a near .600 winning percentage wouldn't deserve to win a Super Bowl.  

I suppose it depends on your goals as an organization and the situation.  Would you keep a coach who you don't think can win a super bowl?  Just so you can win 6 out of 10 games? 

Andy Reid probably was above or close to .600.  Were the Eagles wrong to move on from him?  Did they not deserve to win a super bowl?

And I must assume you would have kept McCarthy in Green Bay?

 

I would further add, if as an organization you aren't assessing the performance of your employees/staff on a continual basis, you aren't doing your job.  It is a conversation (on some level) that should be had anytime you are not successful or underperforming.

Edited by Snake Plissken

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52 minutes ago, swede700 said:

2 out of his last 3 years, Billick won 6 games or less. 

Dungy repeatedly lost in the playoffs (and really never should have been fired by the Bucs, since despite winning the Super Bowl a year later, they never have truly recovered from it)

Shanahan spent 14 years as HC and EVP of the Broncos, he had just run his course. 

Mora would have been retained if he had been willing to fire Vic Fangio (of all people, ironically).  He didn't, so he got canned and replaced by Dungy. 

Holmgren had full control of the Seahawks and collapsed to a 4-12 record.  

None of those situations, as far as I'm concerned, are even relatively similar to the Vikings' situation.  The only one remotely similar is Dungy's...and he went on to win a Super Bowl in Indianapolis, all the while his former team also won a Super Bowl, but then has really been a non-factor for over 15 years.

I would agree with you, except for the fact that there are just too many things about Zimmer and this team that don't inspire a lot of confidence.

Twice in 3 years he has had to replace the OC during the regular season. This time there are only three games left and the team still has a chance at the playoffs. And this time he had publicly shamed and blamed DeFilippo at least twice prior to the firing. Which should never happen.

Beyond all that there are too many games where the team just doesn't show up to play. When it's just one or two players it is on them, but when it's the entire team (like in the NFC Championship game last year) it falls on the coach.

Edited by milanb
Grammar and spelling

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28 minutes ago, Snake Plissken said:

I suppose it depends on your goals as an organization and the situation.  Would you keep a coach who you don't think can win a super bowl?  Just so you can win 6 out of 10 games? 

Andy Reid probably was above or close to .600.  Were the Eagles wrong to move on from him?  Did they not deserve to win a super bowl?

And I must assume you would have kept McCarthy in Green Bay?

 

I would further add, if as an organization you aren't assessing the performance of your employees/staff on a continual basis, you aren't doing your job.  It is a conversation (on some level) that should be had anytime you are not successful or underperforming.

Both of the coaches you referenced spent 13+ years with the franchise.  Sometimes, coaches just run out their course and it was clear at the time that they needed to move on.  Zimmer is nowhere near that at this point.

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