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What is your dream for the 2019 Broncos draft?

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1 hour ago, germ-x said:

I’ve been looking at characteristics of the offense and defense that are important for a Scangarello offense (Shanahan type offense) and a Fangio defense.

Obviously there are far more holes to this team than this, but two key positions seem to be lacking. 

Offensively I am going to leave off QB, but a weapon at TE.  Butt can’t be trusted to be a long term contributor, and I think his upside in today’s NFL is more of a very good 2nd TE. Heuerman and the rest of the group are solid, but aren’t great mismatch types.  Hopefully it will work out again, but this offense has typically been able to find such a player in the middle of the draft, though I wouldn’t be opposed to Hockenson or even Irv Smith in the 2nd (if either makes it there).

Defensively it’s ILB.  Fangio’s last 2 stops he’s had Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman, Danny Trevathan, and Roquan Smith as his 2 ILBs.  All 4 have elite physical gifts.  I like Jewel, but he isn’t even close to the caliber of athlete the above 4 names are.  Fangio asks a lot of his ILBs as well.  If you watched any of the Bears games you’ll see Smith and Trevathan both running with TEs, RBs, and even slot WRs downfield in coverage.

Currently Denver doesn’t have the talent at these positions that our offensive and defensive coordinators are typically used to being able to utilize to be successful.

If we don't have to trade up in the 1st and the QB we like is there at 10, I could very well finding the players we need to fix that.

 

QB at 10, TE at 41 and ILB at 71 seems pretty plausible.....what would make me think about is if one of those OT like Risner, Cajuste or Dillard are there at 41....they would be nice gets with Munchak in town

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3 minutes ago, BowserBroncos said:

If we don't have to trade up in the 1st and the QB we like is there at 10, I could very well finding the players we need to fix that.

 

QB at 10, TE at 41 and ILB at 71 seems pretty plausible.....what would make me think about is if one of those OT like Risner, Cajuste or Dillard are there at 41....they would be nice gets with Munchak in town

I think we go oline esrly. We sss it time and time again with Kollar. Elway picks players that the best coaches on our team get the most out of. 

We saw it with the Walker, Gotsis picks.

It seems like whenever they're similarly rated players where we pick elway always goes with the guy who's gonna have the strongest positional coach.

 

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8 minutes ago, BowserBroncos said:

If we don't have to trade up in the 1st and the QB we like is there at 10, I could very well finding the players we need to fix that.

 

QB at 10, TE at 41 and ILB at 71 seems pretty plausible.....what would make me think about is if one of those OT like Risner, Cajuste or Dillard are there at 41....they would be nice gets with Munchak in town

Yep.  I mean there are players to be had all over the place.  Obviously free agency will fill some holes, but this team could use help at QB, WR, TE, and OL offensively.  While the defense is still playing well, they could use help/talent at every unit save OLB if they re-sign Barrett.

Safety doesn’t get mentioned much, but Stewart is a shell of himself and Simmons, while talented has yet to take the step from average to good.  I wouldn’t rule out a safety early in the draft if the right player is there.

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If I thought there were any QB's in this class that were sure fire things, then I would say do what is necessary to trade up and get him and finally be done with it. However, since I don't believe that is the case this year, I'd say pick a QB if the one we like is available at 10; otherwise BPA all across the board. But don't reach for one of these dudes. If they had been mixed in with last year's quarterback class, NONE of them would have graded out as a top 10 pick. In fact, outside of Haskins, I'm not sure if any of them would have even graded out as first rounders. 

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5 hours ago, 1234567 said:

If I thought there were any QB's in this class that were sure fire things, then I would say do what is necessary to trade up and get him and finally be done with it. However, since I don't believe that is the case this year, I'd say pick a QB if the one we like is available at 10; otherwise BPA all across the board. But don't reach for one of these dudes. If they had been mixed in with last year's quarterback class, NONE of them would have graded out as a top 10 pick. In fact, outside of Haskins, I'm not sure if any of them would have even graded out as first rounders. 

Sure things QBs are a rare thing, I'd say that since Luck we haven't had one and the closest we will have is Trevor Lawrence in 2021. (If he declares)

I also don't agree that this years QBs are worst than last years, I would put Haskins, Lock and maybe Murray ahead of Josh Allen and Josh Rosen (I won't say Lamar Jackson cuz this guy isn't a QB, he is a RB that can poorly throw the ball).

Tho I don't want to trade up (at least not too high where it would be too expensive)

Edited by BowserBroncos

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6 hours ago, BowserBroncos said:

Sure things QBs are a rare thing, I'd say that since Luck we haven't had one and the closest we will have is Trevor Lawrence in 2021. (If he declares)

I also don't agree that this years QBs are worst than last years, I would put Haskins, Lock and maybe Murray ahead of Josh Allen and Josh Rosen (I won't say Lamar Jackson cuz this guy isn't a QB, he is a RB that can poorly throw the ball).

Tho I don't want to trade up (at least not too high where it would be too expensive)

The issue with the 2019 class is that at the top, none of the guys have the body of work for 2+ years of sustained success (and the NFL-necessary skill set) that usually comes with 1st round picks (or in cases like Allen, literal generational-level tools).  Ironically, while 2018 was quite top-heavy, once you got past Lamar Jackson, there was almost no depth for developmental guys, though.   2019 is littered with guys who would make good developmental picks - they just don't have the usual Rd1 skills/body of work you look for (ironically, if we were to go developmental tier, I'd say 2019 is far better off than 2018 was, but not for the top end).   Lock and Grier had the chance to really cement their status as Rd1 guys this season - and stumbled very badly, with very clear flaws exposed on film (and in Grier's case, really a problem given his age, he should be killing college competition).   Jones taking so long to develop until his senior year, combined with his arm talent, are his biggest Q's (like I said before, if you gave Lock's physical tools and Jones' actual QB skills, you'd have that consensus stud 1st round guy).   Ironically, though, if we look at the next tier for 2019, they're not that far below this group - and so 2019 provides a lot of developmental depth that 2018 simply didn't have.  But for the Rd1 price they're going at, 2019's class is clearly a lot worse than 2018.    2018's top 4-5 had the buzz going into their senior season (Allen being the sleeper, and his toolset being generational gave him more leeway to rise above his accuracy/mechanics concerns), and they all delivered (or stayed static as top-end guys).  

If we look at the pre-season, October, December and present QB discussions held this year - a very different order of who was thought to be the top guys are listed (and some guys like Shea Patterson even made the top of the lists, only to literally disappear completely).   That's really a bad sign - if it's taking that long to cement guys as 1st-round talent, unless there are very mitigating circumstances (small school, injury recovery, etc.) - it's usually a sign clear flags are apparent.  That's literally what happened with everyone but Haskins - and he only has 1 year of tape.   And he's not going to be available at 1.10, as it would be a shocker if he wasn't the 1st QB taken, the gap is that significant.    That's something we didn't see with the 2018 top-end class - the only Q was what order they were going in, not whether they were worth top 5, 1st-round picks. 

To say this top end is close to 2018's top end class is pure fiction - driven by our present need.    Let's face it - if Chad Kelly even showed a little bit of hope and didn't pull his knucklehead move, we'd be all saying "let's give him a shot and see what's there, a big no thanks on this class early, maybe bring in competition later in the draft as insurance".   Because we have no options, suddenly it's "hey, this isn't so bad".   Now, we're not alone - but it's no coincidence that only the teams with the most dire need are showing any interest at the front half of Rd1.    Still, having a bad top-end class doesn't mean it's hopeless - successes can still be found.  But the risk of a bust Rd1 pick is that much higher, and it's well-earned.   

 

Edited by Broncofan

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I believe when you come in here with this these guys are better than some guys from last year you are using hindsight. I’ve seen it time and time again. Like everyone had Baker ranked high but these prospects are suddenly better than Rosen because of his rookie year... enter eye roll here.

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When it comes what Vic ask for his ILB to do, which is basically everything from blitz to cover, then the guy you want to target in this draft is Devin Bush Jr. The kid has the entire package. I would love him in R2.

Ideally, I would trade down and take Daniel Jones but this is the NFL in 2019 and you dont deal down for your QB, you stand pat and take him. So right now this is my ideal rounds 1-4:

R1 - Daniel Jones QB - Duke

R2 - Devin Bush Jr ILB - Michigan

R3 - Nate Herbing OL - Stanford

R4 - Diontae Johnson WR - Toledo

R4(HOU) - Dylon Mack NT - Texas A&M

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1 hour ago, Counselor said:

I believe when you come in here with this these guys are better than some guys from last year you are using hindsight. I’ve seen it time and time again. Like everyone had Baker ranked high but these prospects are suddenly better than Rosen because of his rookie year... enter eye roll here.

I actually not using hindsight. I like it Baker on draft day, but at this time of the year last year I wasn't sold on him. My top QB was Darnold and he was the guy I was hopping to fall to 5. If you search all of my comments from last draft process...in every mock that have been posted last year and they put Allen or Rosen for us....you will see that I wasn't happy.

In fact, Allen have surprised me with his rookie year, still not enough to make me sad we have passed on him, but I thought he was better than what I've anticipate. As for Rosen, I never saw nothing at him that make my eye pop and was overjoyed when Elway selected Chubb over him (and Allen). And he end up in a team that was far from ready to develop any QB.

 

I also don't think Haskins or Lock are can't miss prospect, but I do like our chances to develop both with the coaching staff we have now. Murray - talent wise - could be better than both, but I have concerns about his size and the possibility of him going to the MLB at any time scare the hell out of me.

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3 minutes ago, BowserBroncos said:

I actually not using hindsight. I like it Baker on draft day, but at this time of the year last year I wasn't sold on him. My top QB was Darnold and he was the guy I was hopping to fall to 5. If you search all of my comments from last draft process...in every mock that have been posted last year and they put Allen or Rosen for us....you will see that I wasn't happy.

In fact, Allen have surprised me with his rookie year, still not enough to make me sad we have passed on him, but I thought he was better than what I've anticipate. As for Rosen, I never saw nothing at him that make my eye pop and was overjoyed when Elway selected Chubb over him (and Allen). And he end up in a team that was far from ready to develop any QB.

 

I also don't think Haskins or Lock are can't miss prospect, but I do like our chances to develop both with the coaching staff we have now. Murray - talent wise - could be better than both, but I have concerns about his size and the possibility of him going to the MLB at any time scare the hell out of me.

Your comment wasn’t about us now having this coaching staff or passing on them. It was just about them as prospects. 

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53 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ideally, I would trade down and take Daniel Jones but this is the NFL in 2019 and you dont deal down for your QB, you stand pat and take him. So right now this is my ideal rounds 1-4:

 

Looking at history, you not even stand pat, you trade up if you have a QB that you think it's going to be the real deal.

Sam Darnold (from 6 to 3)
Josh Allen (from 12 to 7)
Josh Rosen (from 15 to 10)
Mitch Trubisky (from 3 to 2)
Pat Mahomes (from 27 to 10)
DeShaun Watson (from 25 to 12)
Carson Wentz (from 8 to 2)
Jared Goff (from 15 to 1)
Robert Griffin (from 6 to 2)
Blain Gabbert (from 16 to 10)
Mark Sanchez (from 17 to 5)

 

The only ones that stood pat were teams that already were at 1 or 2.

 

But I hope we break that and pick our guy at 10 (if we have a guy)

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My Order of prospects not using hindsight would go like this 

1. Baker (y’all knew I was all in)

2. Haskins

3. Darnold

4. Jones

5. Grier

6. Jackson

7.  Benkert (yepppp)

8. Rosen

9. Allen

Edited by Counselor

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9 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Your comment wasn’t about us now having this coaching staff or passing on them. It was just about them as prospects. 

To me those things are correlated, at least it should in my opinion.

 

But well,  my other would be this (not using hindsight and looking at 2020 prospect as well) 

1. Darnold

2. Mayfield (looks like Dorsey is better than me)

3. Tua

4. Haskins

5. Herbert

6. Lock

7. Fromm

8. Ehlinger

9. Allen

10. Jones

10. Eason

11. Rosen

12. Stidham

13. Grier

14. Tyree Jackson

15. Lamar Jackson

 

(I'm not putting Murray on that list because I'm not sure if he won't go to play in the MLB yet, but he would be around Haskins, Herbert and Lock)

Edited by BowserBroncos

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10 minutes ago, BowserBroncos said:

To me those things are correlated, at least it should in my opinion.

 

But well,  my other would be this (not using hindsight and looking at 2020 prospect as well) 

1. Darnold

2. Mayfield (looks like Dorsey is better than me)

3. Tua

4. Haskins

5. Herbert

6. Lock

7. Fromm

8. Ehlinger

9. Allen

10. Jones

10. Eason

11. Rosen

12. Stidham

13. Grier

14. Tyree Jackson

15. Lamar Jackson

 

(I'm not putting Murray on that list because I'm not sure if he won't go to play in the MLB yet, but he would be around Haskins, Herbert and Lock)

I guess I was better than you too

Edited by Counselor

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