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War's 2019 Offseason plan


warfelg

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4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Im not opposed to replacing Colbert, but I dont think it will happen unless Rooney decides to make a major change, which I dont see....not this offseason, at least.    Much like Tomlin, Colbert is under contract through 2020.    I dont think either him or Tomlin are going anywhere until after 2020, outside of perhaps a huge collapse in 2019.   Either way, I dont see any changes to the head coach or GM this offseason.   Again, though....Im not totally opposed to it.

is there prison time for firing a GM or HC? Why not before their contract expires?

 

4 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Also, I have 0 interest in seeing Vince Williams remain a starter 

Thats one of colbert's big signings and one he drafted. If colbert is here, so starts williams

 

2 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Yep, Vinny can blitz. Run blitzes and QB blitzes. He's good at both. His instincts are terrible in coverage and average run stops. If he can aggressively attack a prepared gap, he's good. 

LB's need to cover , someone tell colbert he could get any scrub of the street to just blitz and miss tackles and for several times less than what he pays williams

 

31 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

I think he's a guy that needs a 50/50 rotation with another quality starter capable player.  He isn't a terrible starter, he's also not a great one.  He isn't the ideal starter and in fact I feel that he is so limited in what he does well that it creates a 'telegraphed' weakness on our defense.

With weaknesses and limitation elsewhere on D, the idea of a rational LB due to weaknesses makes for too many failed plays . Remove -. replace, just like other teams do. No need to try and make colbert's pick work. If you are so intent on that, might as well rotate burns while at it

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I like the plan. I'm still against moving on from Colbert -- I think its reasonable to assume some of these defensive issues stem from Tomlin, as most issues on that side of the ball have become much more pronounced since we moved on from Lebeau and he assumed more control. The side of the ball where Tomlin has the least amount of say has the best coaching staff individually as well as the best pile of talent and draft and free agent stock. Im not saying its the be all end all - because Colbert has a long history of poor DB picks - but I would rather reevaluate how we go about our draft situation than remove a guy who has largely assembled a talents team and pieced together players through the 4th lowest draft pick location and one of the tightest salary cap situations during his time as GM here. 

Love the Dan Quinn thought, because its directly in line with what I would like to see happen -- take power away from the coaching of Tomlin. I think the players love Tomlin, I think he is good with the media, I think he is a quality face of the organization, but just like James Franklin -- stay the hell away from the x's and o's. Love bringing in a seasoned, proven DC -- especially one with a head coaching past. Let them run the room. 

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9 hours ago, warfelg said:

~Defensive Coordinator, Keith Butler is out.  Every time I think of him, I can't help but think of this scene:

If Butler is getting canned, why shouldn't the guy who secretly usurped him last year, kept him around, and then did so again this year (at least according to you) not go with him?

Quote

I think Tomlin's impact on a declining defense is overstated if you want to play down Colbert's misses on defensive picks.

Because we all know that when the defense is doing something kind of good, it's because Mike Tomlin took over and that when it sucks its Butler. Mike Tomlin certainly doesn't have his hands all over the scheme. He doesn't sit there and involve himself in positional meetings and have heavy input on play calls (ignore his own players who say otherwise). And he certainly doesn't get heavy say on draft day (ignore his own words as well as those of Colbert).

When I listen to some of you talk, I'm left scratching my head as to what exactly it is that Tomlin does do or is responsible for. Even his poor game management on Sundays, the most visible aspect of his job...is never really his fault.

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12 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

If Butler is getting canned, why shouldn't the guy who secretly usurped him last year, kept him around, and then did so again this year (at least according to you) not go with him?

Because we all know that when the defense is doing something kind of good, it's because Mike Tomlin took over and that when it sucks its Butler. Mike Tomlin certainly doesn't have his hands all over the scheme. He doesn't sit there and involve himself in positional meetings and have heavy input on play calls (ignore his own players who say otherwise). And he certainly doesn't get heavy say on draft day (ignore his own words as well as those of Colbert).

When I listen to some of you talk, I'm left scratching my head as to what exactly it is that Tomlin does do or is responsible for. Even his poor game management on Sundays, the most visible aspect of his job...is never really his fault.

Cool trolling.

Butler is calling plays not Tomlin.  Tomlin didn't take that power just according to me, there's reports out there that he did so.   There are certainly things that are Tomlin's fault, but there's quite a few things that he's blamed for that aren't on him.  Just like you tried in the other thread with Boswell's miss.  That's not on Tomlin at all. 

 

But I'm done conversing with you.  It's clear you want to take the attitude that everything is Tomlin's fault.  Is that you Mark Madden?

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Can you let me know what part of the defense's problems I'm allowed to blame on Tomlin and which I can't?

But let's reiterate - Mike Tomlin, per reports I can actual cite, heavily involved himself with every part of the defense last year. The defense that then got lit up by Blake Bortles. Regardless, it was Mike Tomlin who then kept this defensive coordinator around, apparently (per you) put power back into his hands, and then had to usurp some unspecified portion of it back. And for this Mike Tomlin deserves nothing but credit. Not one ounce of blame even though IT WOULD BE THE EXACT SAME THING THAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR. HE WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG IN TRUSTING BUTLER TO GET IT RIGHT.

If Butler fails, Mike Tomlin failed, too. Because that's his job as the head coach. Put the right people in position. Especially on the defensive side of the ball.

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36 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

If Butler is getting canned, why shouldn't the guy who secretly usurped him last year, kept him around, and then did so again this year (at least according to you) not go with him?

Because we all know that when the defense is doing something kind of good, it's because Mike Tomlin took over and that when it sucks its Butler. Mike Tomlin certainly doesn't have his hands all over the scheme. He doesn't sit there and involve himself in positional meetings and have heavy input on play calls (ignore his own players who say otherwise). And he certainly doesn't get heavy say on draft day (ignore his own words as well as those of Colbert).

When I listen to some of you talk, I'm left scratching my head as to what exactly it is that Tomlin does do or is responsible for. Even his poor game management on Sundays, the most visible aspect of his job...is never really his fault.

That, more than anything you've said in this thread is a load of crap.  I have made a thread about the coaching staff and one of my criticisms of Tomlin was his clock management (which is part of game management).  Many agreed.  I've also seen guys like 43M and War admit that Butler is inconsistent as a play caller (that's not a quote, they've given him props on some of his calls and games, dogged him on others).  

So we're not praising Tomlin for the good and dogging others for the bad.  I'll further this opinion in a much more descriptive post shortly.

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10 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

That, more than anything you've said in this thread is a load of crap.  I have made a thread about the coaching staff and one of my criticisms of Tomlin was his clock management (which is part of game management).  Many agreed.  I've also seen guys like 43M and War admit that Butler is inconsistent as a play caller (that's not a quote, they've given him props on some of his calls and games, dogged him on others).  

So we're not praising Tomlin for the good and dogging others for the bad.  I'll further this opinion in a much more descriptive post shortly.

Butler was a GREAT LB coach too.  Under his direction the front 7 has been playing better.  Taking Hayward off 2-gap deals and onto 1-gapping, while using Tuitt to 2-gap man-on-man style has really unlocked something.  Sure we get our best pressure on blitzes, but that's more on the fact that we don't have the edge guys to get home and we don't have the coverage guys to let our edge guys get home.

In constructing an entire defense, and the blitzes he's calling...it has a feeling of he isn't really sure how to do it, and they look like LeBeau's plays.  Not that it's a bad thing.  He's added wrinkles of twists and stunts, and I feel some of this would work better if we had better players too.  I just don't think he's the DC to get the best results from this team as constructed.

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First of all, after listening to the entirety of Tomlin's latest presser, I'm done with him.  He might as well have admitted he doesn't take teams with poor records seriously.  He had the power to put Ben back in because he was cleared to play and chose to wait until our backs were against the wall.  Just think if Ben were in on the 4 possessions Dobbs led us on.  Imagine if we had scored all 4 times, that's 28 points (or worst case scenario, 12 points) which gives us a substantial lead.  Then he chose not to call a time out, leaving us with just 15 seconds, imagine if we'd been left with closer to a minute...chances are we score a touchdown instead of rely on Boswell to kick a FG.

Tomlin has absolutely been among the most successful.  He's also been among the most 'noticed' coaches for clock management errors that result in losses and seemingly overlooking inferior talent.  

He doesn't, by appearance, demand more of his coordinators than the effort they are currently providing and he is seemingly terrible at making swift and necessary personnel changes. 

Do I fault Tomlin who is supposed to be a defensive guy for not taking the reigns away from Butler who continues to fail as a DC? Absolutely, but then part of me wonders whether the Rooneys are allowing him the power to do so?  

One of the major problems that has always existed with our team is that the Rooney's seem relentlessly against letting the HC run the ship.  I am all for Fichtner having another year, but do I believe he'll succeed? No, not as a longer term OC, I do not.

Having said that, let's discuss things even deeper:

This for all intents and purposes is a 3-4 Defense.  

We have a 4-3 DE/DT (Hargrave) playing NT

We have a Thumper ILB playing as our primary ILB and his counter part is the furthest thing from a cover LB.  Our front 7 do not get consistent pressure up front, would they with a true 3-4 NT? probably, imo.

Okay, so, stating the obvious, let me beat the dead horse and dig even deeper.

What are our biggest issues on defense? 

COVERAGE.  

We've got a #2 CB (Haden) playing as our #1, a Nickel CB (Hilton) playing as our #2, a scrub sharing snaps (Sensabaugh), a project player also sharing snaps (Sutton) and they're all backed up by a scrub draft bust (Burns)

At Safety we got a walking gurney (Burnett), a overdrafted rookie (Edmunds), yeah I really do think he's a scrub who's ceiling isn't much higher than the talent or lack there of that we see him currently displaying, time will tell but he shouldn't be a starter.  Then there is possibly the worst cover guy and tackler on our team not named Artie Burns (Sean Davis) who doesn't belong on the roster let alone as a starter.

At ILB we got 2 guys that can't cover themselves with an umbrella in the rain let alone a tight end or running back and yet they're asked to cover WR's.  Vince Williams doesn't belong in a starting position in our defense, I've got no issue with him being a rotation player.  Tyler Matakavich is pointless.  Jon Bostic needs to head back to the unemployment line.  If what we saw from LJ Fort on Sunday is his true identity, he can join Bostic.  

At OLB we've got Watt.  Dupree is not worth anything close to $9M, I don't even know if he should be a starter on our roster.  He isn't even a top 5 worst LB on our team, which is pathetic but it's the truth.  Chickillo offers nothing, I mean nothing other than Special Teams, he can go.

LT Walton is useless, any time he's on the field, our Dline struggles.  Alualu isn't bad in rotation.

DT.. Hargrave is a decent pass rush guy, but he isn't a NT.   Daniel McCullers is a 1 skill guy, that skill is to stand there and take up a couple guys, hopefully, beyond that, he offers very little.

What's my point?  My point is, when you look at every level of our defense, it's easier to point out the weaknesses than the strengths.

So where do we start to fix this?

2 ways.  First you go take that money you saved on Bell and you cut Gilbert to save more money yet and you sign Deone Bucannon.   If you sign no one else in FA which would be disappointing tbh, you NEED to sign Deone Bucannon.  Another guy I'd be looking at, if he hits FA is Gerald Hodges, who was very effective in SF's 3-4 Defense.  

the second way is signing a safety that I think will almost definitely hit FA, his name is Landon Collins.  He is going to be expensive and he is every bit worth the cash.  

After you've done that, you go out and get guys like War suggested in Bene and Kareem Jackson, follow that up by drafting the BPA CB, S, ILB, OLB in the 1st round.

OH and with this, you also fire the DC, LB Coaches, and promote the Secondary coach to Defensive Coordinator imo.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

and War admit that Butler is inconsistent as a play caller (that's not a quote, they've given him props on some of his calls and games, dogged him on others).  

We don't even know what plays Butler calls or doesn't. Warfelg as recently as the Jacksonville game was crowing that Mike Tomlin turned the defense around by assuming control this year. Last year, there were numerous reports that he went as far as calling plays on Sundays. His fingerprints are all over this defense.

Mike Tomlin usurps Butler's authority in 2017.

Mike Tomlin keeps Butler on his staff this offseason.

Mike Tomlin apparently gave Butler back control of the defense.

Mike Tomlin apparently once again usurped Butler in 2018 in some unspecified manner.

But when Warfelg trashes the defense, it's all Butler. He has a post just from today that Tomlin gets too much blame for the defense. Tomlin is the headcoach. If his handpicked defensive coordinator isn't getting the job done for two straight seasons and has personally taken over the reigns at times, newsflash - Tomlin shoulders blame, as well. Do I need to go and pull the exact posts from Warfelg to further highlight how he's contradicted himself?

 

And more ridiculously to me, some of you just want to promote a guy already on staff to take the place of the last guy who was promoted because he was on the staff. Which is probably what the Steelers end up doing with the same sort of results. The secondary is making fewer plays this year. They have all but given up on their first round CB. Their second round CB is a minor role player stuck behind a journeyman in Sensabaugh.

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1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

Do I fault Tomlin who is supposed to be a defensive guy for not taking the reigns away from Butler who continues to fail as a DC? Absolutely, but then part of me wonders whether the Rooneys are allowing him the power to do so?  

Only, Tomlin by all accounts essentially did this last year, and ACCORDING TO WARFELG, THE GUY I'M RESPONDING TO, this happened again this year. That is his argument. Not mine. And as recently as three weeks ago he was praising Tomlin, not Butler, for the defense. So, if you are going to jump into that argument, know what Warfelg has and continues to argue.

My own opinion, based around quotes from players like Joe Haden, reports from last year and stories from the local beat writers, Tomlin's fingers have always been all over this defense for better or worse and at various times he gets even more involved (like in the middle of last season). That includes taking part in positional meetings, taking a hands on approach to coaching individual players, having input on the overall design and approach, gameplans, talent (where he almost certainly has more of a say than Butler), and even calls on Sundays.

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8 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

We don't even know what plays Butler calls or doesn't. Warfelg as recently as the Jacksonville game was crowing that Mike Tomlin turned the defense around by assuming control this year. Last year, there were numerous reports that he went as far as calling plays on Sundays. His fingerprints are all over this defense.

Mike Tomlin usurps Butler's authority in 2017.

Mike Tomlin keeps Butler on his staff this offseason.

Mike Tomlin apparently gave Butler back control of the defense.

Mike Tomlin apparently once again usurped Butler in 2018 in some unspecified manner.

But when Warfelg trashes the defense, it's all Butler. He has a post just from today that Tomlin gets too much blame for the defense. Tomlin is the headcoach. If his handpicked defensive coordinator isn't getting the job done for two straight seasons and has personally taken over the reigns at times, newsflash - Tomlin shoulders blame, as well. Do I need to go and pull the exact posts from Warfelg to further highlight how he's contradicted himself?

 

And more ridiculously to me, some of you just want to promote a guy already on staff to take the place of the last guy who was promoted because he was on the staff. Which is probably what the Steelers end up doing with the same sort of results. The secondary is making fewer plays this year. They have all but given up on their first round CB. Their second round CB is a minor role player stuck behind a journeyman in Sensabaugh.

You cannot possibly judge Tom Bradley based on the his job as the secondary coach this year.  He's got 2 guys in that entire secondary that should be on the field with any consistency and they are Haden and Hilton and Hilton frankly has had me scratching my head lately also.

As far as Bradley being promoted, he is the most sensible option, having said that, I'm completely fine with hiring someone that is NOT currently on the staff.  I'd love to see someone like Kevin Greene hired as the LB Coach.  The LBs were monstrous in GB when he was there.  Currently he is with the Jets, Idk how their LBs have done this year.  Tom Bradley, albeit at the college level, has at least shown the ability as a Defensive Coordinator to put together dominant defenses.

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5 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

We've got a #2 CB (Haden) playing as our #1, a Nickel CB (Hilton) playing as our #2, a scrub sharing snaps (Sensabaugh), a project player also sharing snaps (Sutton) and they're all backed up by a scrub draft bust (Burns)

At Safety we got a walking gurney (Burnett), a overdrafted rookie (Edmunds), yeah I really do think he's a scrub who's ceiling isn't much higher than the talent or lack there of that we see him currently displaying, time will tell but he shouldn't be a starter.  Then there is possibly the worst cover guy and tackler on our team not named Artie Burns (Sean Davis) who doesn't belong on the roster let alone as a starter.

At ILB we got 2 guys that can't cover themselves with an umbrella in the rain let alone a tight end or running back and yet they're asked to cover WR's.  Vince Williams doesn't belong in a starting position in our defense, I've got no issue with him being a rotation player.  Tyler Matakavich is pointless.  Jon Bostic needs to head back to the unemployment line.  If what we saw from LJ Fort on Sunday is his true identity, he can join Bostic.  

At OLB we've got Watt.  Dupree is not worth anything close to $9M, I don't even know if he should be a starter on our roster.  He isn't even a top 5 worst LB on our team, which is pathetic but it's the truth.  Chickillo offers nothing, I mean nothing other than Special Teams, he can go.

One think I keep coming around to reading all of this: we're playing our best players and our best suuuuuuuck.

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8 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Only, Tomlin by all accounts essentially did this last year, and ACCORDING TO WARFELG, THE GUY I'M RESPONDING TO, this happened again this year. That is his argument. Not mine. And as recently as three weeks ago he was praising Tomlin, not Butler, for the defense. So, if you are going to jump into that argument, know what Warfelg has and continues to argue.

My own opinion, based around quotes from players like Joe Haden, reports from last year and stories from the local beat writers, Tomlin's fingers have always been all over this defense for better or worse and at various times he gets even more involved (like in the middle of last season). That includes taking part in positional meetings, taking a hands on approach to coaching individual players, having input on the overall design and approach, gameplans, talent (where he almost certainly has more of a say than Butler), and even calls on Sundays.

I'm not sure Tomlin shouldn't be fired.  Here's the thing...if Tomlin IS fired, then EVERY COACH on the staff except Mike Munchak should be fired. 

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1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

You cannot possibly judge Tom Bradley based on the his job as the secondary coach this year.  He's got 2 guys in that entire secondary that should be on the field with any consistency and they are Haden and Hilton and Hilton frankly has had me scratching my head lately also.

As far as Bradley being promoted, he is the most sensible option, having said that, I'm completely fine with hiring someone that is NOT currently on the staff.  I'd love to see someone like Kevin Greene hired as the LB Coach.  The LBs were monstrous in GB when he was there.  Currently he is with the Jets, Idk how their LBs have done this year.  Tom Bradley, albeit at the college level, has at least shown the ability as a Defensive Coordinator to put together dominant defenses.

I said it last year on Hilton.....his blitzes got him overrated.

As for the Jets LB's.......they suck but they are overacheiving for what they are.

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