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Trubisky and the end of the season


WindyCity

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I looked at him pretty hard in December when he was in college and said that he would be a turnover machine his first year starting in NFL. I said he would lead the league in turnovers.  I didnt think the Bears were going to draft him. I was just speaking generally.  

I also said I thought he was most talented QB in draft and could be very good and would be a very interesting choice. I said he would take longest to develop of any of top QBs drafted and patience would be required.  I didnt know if a coach could survive his development timeline because you might be looking at a winless season. I think I underestimated Watson or more accurately I believed he would be oft injued in NFL and there is no question I underestimated Mahomes.  So did everyone or he would have went number one over all.  He is best QB in NFL right now.

I think if you leave Mahomes and Watson out of it,  which everyone should because its spilt milk, he is doing exactly what most expected of him at this point. If you take a long view and criticism doesnt break him mentally I think he can still be a pro bowl QB in his career and the reason you win games.  Patience is hard.

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5 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I looked at him pretty hard in December when he was in college and said that he would be a turnover machine his first year starting in NFL. I said he would lead the league in turnovers.  I didnt think the Bears were going to draft him. I was just speaking generally.  

I also said I thought he was most talented QB in draft and could be very good and would be a very interesting choice. I said he would take longest to develop of any of top QBs drafted and patience would be required.  I didnt know if a coach could survive his development timeline because you might be looking at a winless season. I think I underestimated Watson or more accurately I believed he would be oft injued in NFL and there is no question I underestimated Mahomes.  So did everyone or he would have went number one over all.  He is best QB in NFL right now.

I think if you leave Mahomes and Watson out of it,  which everyone should because its spilt milk, he is doing exactly what most expected of him at this point. If you take a long view and criticism doesnt break him mentally I think he can still be a pro bowl QB in his career and the reason you win games.  Patience is hard.

I was a huge Mahomes fan and argued his merit since his junior year. I would have been happy to draft him if I was GM. That being said, I thought he required the most work with his footwork, removing the baseball sling from his throws (it improved from his Jr to Sr season though) and was terrified of what Loggains and Fox would do to him. I was scared he'd lead the league in INTs trying to force wins and I think with the WR corps we had last year he might have.

 

Tru is fine. People have ridiculous knee-jerk reactions each week. He passed for 13 TDs and 3 INTs over a 4 week span so IMO that was when realism went out the window for some fans. Let him keep working in Nagy's system (and let Nagy get more experience as a playcaller) and get his footwork down and his accuracy will get better. Look at the difference from year 1 to 2 Tru made. He isn't going to suddenly regress with this system, Pace has played things well and is thinking long-term with Tru.

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To echo what @Sugashane said, here is Alex Smith's first season in this offense (75 NFL starts under his belt at this point):

60.6%/6.5 YPA/23 TDs/7INTs/89.1 rating

 

Numerous coaches versed in this scheme said it takes 3 years to feel comfortable in this offense and 5 to master it. I'm perfectly fine with where MT10 is at this point, I just want to see him clean up his mechanics.

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1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

I was a huge Mahomes fan and argued his merit since his junior year. I would have been happy to draft him if I was GM. That being said, I thought he required the most work with his footwork, removing the baseball sling from his throws (it improved from his Jr to Sr season though) and was terrified of what Loggains and Fox would do to him. I was scared he'd lead the league in INTs trying to force wins and I think with the WR corps we had last year he might have.

 

Tru is fine. People have ridiculous knee-jerk reactions each week. He passed for 13 TDs and 3 INTs over a 4 week span so IMO that was when realism went out the window for some fans. Let him keep working in Nagy's system (and let Nagy get more experience as a playcaller) and get his footwork down and his accuracy will get better. Look at the difference from year 1 to 2 Tru made. He isn't going to suddenly regress with this system, Pace has played things well and is thinking long-term with Tru.

If you were banging table for Mahomes and I recall at least one or two people were, than take props for being right.  

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Is it normal for a 2nd year QB to have gaudy stats like 4500 yard passing and 45 passing TDs in 14 games played?  Absolutely not.

Does it suck knowing that the Bears could have had Mahomes if they wanted?  Absolutely.

Does that mean that Trubisky will never be a good enough QB to help win us a SB?  Absolutely not.

Also, is it a guarantee that Mahomes would have had the same development curve here with the Bears as he has had with the Chiefs if he were the pick over Trubisky?  Not exactly.

Drafting isn't an exact science.  It's very difficult to predict how these things will shake out.  Going back to the '17 draft there were mixed opinions on who the top QB was in that class.  Some people even thought that there were no QBs worth of a 1st round selection in that class, so I don't think it's exactly fair to compare Trubisky's development to that of Mahomes, or even Watson's, when there was no consensus top prospect at the position and considering that they weren't all dealt the same cards to begin with.

If Trubisky hasn't shown considerable growth by this time next year, then maybe we can start to talk about how he's not the long term guy for the job, but I think we owe the kid at least 3 years to show us what he's all about before panicking and hitting the reset button.  I trust in Nagy to get this thing right.

Trubisky may never be as talented as Mahomes as a pure passer, but I believe he has all the right tools to be a very good NFL QB and leader for this team.

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1 hour ago, G08 said:

*raises hand* ;)

Nice.

I did a GM deal on the old site for Bears in 2016 (Floyd year) and with no trades I drafted Jack Conklin, Chris Jones, Austin Hooper, Jihad Ward, Tavon Young, Deon Bush, Ted Karras.  And a RB who didn't make it in the league.    

Conklin has been an all pro OT and Jones is quietly 2nd best DT in league behind Aaron Donald this year.  He has 14 sacks which is nuts for an interior DL. He was unblockable last night and he was hurt.  

Young has been oft injured, but has been good when healthy, sometimes real good.  Hooper is a decent TE, not great, but we could use him this year.  Ward is a journey man DT who has bounced around the league.  Bush is a back up that we did actually draft. Ted Karras has played in a number of games for Patriots and would probably start for Bears right now at guard.   

I really studied players that year and took it serious.  Others did too as I was messaged quite a bit and people wrote up long scouting reports on each player. 

 I think I did pretty good.  A good player and a couple of starters is a good draft.  

I got two great players, in Jones and Conklin, two good players in Hooper and Young, a low end starter in Ward, and two still rostered back ups in Bush and Karras.   I would say that is a good draft generally speaking.  

Bears actually got:

3 good players, Floyd, Howard and Whitehair.  5  back ups in Bullard, Kwaitowski, Bush, Hall and Houston-Carson and Braverman who is gone.

Not bad.   I think mine was better, not tons better and not perfect, but better, of course it wouldn't and couldn't have played out like that in real life.  Some guys went earlier and some went later and butterfly effect and so on.

Not bad for an amateur.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, topwop1 said:

Is it normal for a 2nd year QB to have gaudy stats like 4500 yard passing and 45 passing TDs in 14 games played?  Absolutely not.

Does it suck knowing that the Bears could have had Mahomes if they wanted?  Absolutely.

Does that mean that Trubisky will never be a good enough QB to help win us a SB?  Absolutely not.

Also, is it a guarantee that Mahomes would have had the same development curve here with the Bears as he has had with the Chiefs if he were the pick over Trubisky?  Not exactly.

Drafting isn't an exact science.  It's very difficult to predict how these things will shake out.  Going back to the '17 draft there were mixed opinions on who the top QB was in that class.  Some people even thought that there were no QBs worth of a 1st round selection in that class, so I don't think it's exactly fair to compare Trubisky's development to that of Mahomes, or even Watson's, when there was no consensus top prospect at the position and considering that they weren't all dealt the same cards to begin with.

If Trubisky hasn't shown considerable growth by this time next year, then maybe we can start to talk about how he's not the long term guy for the job, but I think we owe the kid at least 3 years to show us what he's all about before panicking and hitting the reset button.  I trust in Nagy to get this thing right.

Trubisky may never be as talented as Mahomes as a pure passer, but I believe he has all the right tools to be a very good NFL QB and leader for this team.

This simply cant be overstated.  I remember a ton of posts from 2017 about how none of the 3 were worth top 10 picks.  How the 2018 class war so much better.  I remember saying we hear that every year and it's just grass being greener.  Here we are in these 3 guys 2nd years, and they are all 3 AT THE TOP OF THEIR RESPECTIVE DIVISIONS.  That's astonishing.  This will guy down as similar to 1983 and 2004 as one of the best draft classes ever.  The similarities are remarkable.  Big Ben took over un week 1 when Tommy Maddox went down.  Eli started 6 games into his rookie year and the Chargers let Brees go so Rivers could start his 2nd year.  It doesnt end there.  I was a Watson guy and I'm not going to shy away from it, but I really liked all 3 for.different reasons.  

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1 hour ago, SLCbear said:

I am much more worried about the season ending bc of Parkey than Mitch ..

Proud of MT  his confidence took a little hit sun night but he is WAY AHEAD of schedule  

I disagree.

For me he has regressed and fallen a little behind schedule. I was not expecting this dip towards the end of the season.

If he had continued on his path from games that weren’t even that good in NYJ and Buf I would be okay, but albeit against good defenses he has been a bit of a mess. He has looked closer to week 1-3 Trubisky against the Rams and Vikings than I would like.

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3 hours ago, WindyCity said:

I disagree.

For me he has regressed and fallen a little behind schedule. I was not expecting this dip towards the end of the season.

If he had continued on his path from games that weren’t even that good in NYJ and Buf I would be okay, but albeit against good defenses he has been a bit of a mess. He has looked closer to week 1-3 Trubisky against the Rams and Vikings than I would like.

You understand that progression is not linear though, right?

He's reading defenses well for the most part, but he's a reps guy like he said and they prepped all week for the Rams to be playing man, and they came out in zone. Threw everything off but even still he was finding open guys but missing them because of awful mechanics. You can clean that up. I'm expecting a bounce-back game from him this week.

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3 hours ago, G08 said:

You understand that progression is not linear though, right?

He's reading defenses well for the most part, but he's a reps guy like he said and they prepped all week for the Rams to be playing man, and they came out in zone. Threw everything off but even still he was finding open guys but missing them because of awful mechanics. You can clean that up. I'm expecting a bounce-back game from him this week.

I know the excuses he has given in the past.

I know that development is not linear.

I was expecting him to be further along at this point than he is. I was expecting some of his major issues to be improving not regressing.

I understand you can clean up bad mechanics, but it would be nice to see them cleaned up sooner rather than later. The fact that his footwork seems to be getting worse is a problem.

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15 hours ago, WindyCity said:

I know the excuses he has given in the past.

I know that development is not linear.

I was expecting him to be further along at this point than he is. I was expecting some of his major issues to be improving not regressing.

I understand you can clean up bad mechanics, but it would be nice to see them cleaned up sooner rather than later. The fact that his footwork seems to be getting worse is a problem.

Footwork can be worked on and improved over time. That shouldn't concern anyone when it comes to Mitch.

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35 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Footwork can be worked on and improved over time. That shouldn't concern anyone when it comes to Mitch.

I'd be interested to know how many of the INTs are clearly on Tru. His overthrows to Burton and underthrow deep right a number of weeks ago clearly are him only, but we have had 2 tipped at the LOS vs GB, Robinson seemed to quit on his deep in and let one go by, Bellamy had one bounce off his stomach and pop up, etc.

 

He has had numerous ones that should have been picked, as all QBs do, but I would just like to know which ones are solely on him.

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4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I'd be interested to know how many of the INTs are clearly on Tru. His overthrows to Burton and underthrow deep right a number of weeks ago clearly are him only, but we have had 2 tipped at the LOS vs GB, Robinson seemed to quit on his deep in and let one go by, Bellamy had one bounce off his stomach and pop up, etc.

 

He has had numerous ones that should have been picked, as all QBs do, but I would just like to know which ones are solely on him.

I will not comment on Trubisky other than he has been inconsistent this season. But what you said above is what a lot of Bears fans including myself here said about Cutler.  I am not saying he is going to be like Cutler just that this argument mean much.

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