Are there any defenses this year as good as the Vikings/Jaguars last year?

[TheVillain112]

11 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Compare us to Chicago, and then compare us to Jacksonville and Minnesota of last year and it's just not close. That's my point. We're a top 5 defense this year because defense overall is really bad, but I don't even think we're on the same level as Dallas, let alone Chicago.

Vikings D and Jags D for that matter weren't perfect last season either.  Vikings D has their bad games especially in the playoffs.  Same with the Jags getting killed by both the Steelers and Patriots offenses.  While their 'elite' might not be as good as those defenses, I do also think their 'bottom' isn't as bad as those teams.  Ravens are a much more consistent defense when healthy...

[evilpimp972]

1 hour ago, sammymvpknight said:

Jacksonville was one of the best defenses I’ve ever seen last year. Chicago and Baltimore are good...but they’re not on that level. 

Really? When did they stop an elite offense? They got torched by Pittsburg, and couldn't get it done vs Brady.

[game3525]

4 minutes ago, evilpimp972 said:

Really? When did they stop an elite offense? They got torched by Pittsburg, and couldn't get it done vs Brady.

They did smack the Steelers around early in the season. But the Steelers offense was no where near as good as the Rams offense this year. 

[childofpudding]

20 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Compare us to Chicago, and then compare us to Jacksonville and Minnesota of last year and it's just not close. That's my point. We're a top 5 defense this year because defense overall is really bad, but I don't even think we're on the same level as Dallas, let alone Chicago.

I don't think you're on the same level as Chicago, but I think you're on the level of Minnesota last season. I'd put Chicago up there with last year's Jacksonville, and Baltimore up there with last season's Minnesota.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

8 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

Vikings D and Jags D for that matter weren't perfect last season either.  Vikings D has their bad games especially in the playoffs.  Same with the Jags getting killed by both the Steelers and Patriots offenses.  While their 'elite' might not be as good as those defenses, I do also think their 'bottom' isn't as bad as those teams.  Ravens are a much more consistent defense when healthy...

Our bottom is the TNF Game against Cinci, but we also struggled against Cinci at home and Oakland just a couple of weeks ago. Not to mention that we just crumble every single time we need to make a stop late in a game to win the game. 

We're 5th in Pass DVOA, 5th in Rush DVOA, 27th(!!!) in Variance (aka how consistent we are on a week-to-week basis), with the 12th hardest DVOA schedule. I don't think there's any argument for us being on the same level as a team like Chicago (1st in Pass DVOA, 1st in Rush DVOA and 4th in variance).

Not saying those defenses last year were perfect, but they were THE BEST in one certain area. We aren't the best, or even top 3 in anything.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, childofpudding said:

I don't think you're on the same level as Chicago, but I think you're on the level of Minnesota last season. I'd put Chicago up there with last year's Jacksonville, and Baltimore up there with last season's Minnesota.

For direct comparison:

2	MIN	-13.9%	8	-18.5%	1	-11.8%	4	-16.9%	6	-12.7%	-10.6%	-15.7%	5.2%	11	0.5%	13

and Baltimore:

4	BAL	-12.2%	5	-10.2%	4	-7.7%	5	-18.7%	5	-11.7%	-8.2%	-16.8%	7.4%	27	1.3%	12

We're close in certain areas, but Minnesota was clearly better than we are. I don't think we're the #2 to Chicago's #1. By all accounts, that probably belongs to Denver, of all teams, or Buffalo.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

[game3525]

Quote

We're close in certain areas, but Minnesota was clearly better than we are. I don't think we're the #2 to Chicago's #1. By all accounts, that probably belongs to Denver, of all teams, or Buffalo.

The Bills definitely have a case over Baltimore. But I think Denver's numbers are a bit smoke and mirrors. I mean the Chargers and Steelers racked up 500+ yards on them and didn't seem to have no issue moving the ball on them. Then you have their performances against the Jets and Niners. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

7 minutes ago, game3525 said:

The Bills definitely have a case over Baltimore. But I think Denver's numbers are a bit smoke and mirrors. I mean the Chargers and Steelers racked up 500+ yards on them and didn't seem to have no issue moving the ball on them. Then you have their performances against the Jets and Niners. 

Denver has the #2 hardest DVOA schedule in the NFL and is #2 in passing and #11 in rushing. I think that's still impressive. Buffalo is ranked 19 in schedule and is dead last in variance, so I mean idk.

Each team this year has weak spots. Baltimore has their game against Tennessee which highly skews our stats as well in the positive.

[childofpudding]

19 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

For direct comparison:

2	MIN	-13.9%	8	-18.5%	1	-11.8%	4	-16.9%	6	-12.7%	-10.6%	-15.7%	5.2%	11	0.5%	13

and Baltimore:

4	BAL	-12.2%	5	-10.2%	4	-7.7%	5	-18.7%	5	-11.7%	-8.2%	-16.8%	7.4%	27	1.3%	12

We're close in certain areas, but Minnesota was clearly better than we are. I don't think we're the #2 to Chicago's #1. By all accounts, that probably belongs to Denver, of all teams, or Buffalo.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Nice, good call. They do seem to be improving, though. Not sure about this week's DVOA vs. KC because it's not up yet, but BAL had three straight weeks of negative dDVOA, including a -43.1% vs. ATL. FWIW, Denver has been even better the last three weeks (-24.7%, -20%, -31.8%), so you have a good point.

[wackywabbit]

Baltimore is in the ball park with Chicago and last year Vikings in terms of points and yards per drive (last year Jags were a step above this group). Aside from how much you believe in clutchness, the real area they are lacking is getting turnovers. They are second last in the NFL in takeaways, which is obviously important. That's the biggest reason the DVOA is "only" 4th before this week. It's kind of surprising given they led the entire league last year and have good pressure rates.

[wackywabbit]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Compare us to Chicago, and then compare us to Jacksonville and Minnesota of last year and it's just not close. That's my point. We're a top 5 defense this year because defense overall is really bad, but I don't even think we're on the same level as Dallas, let alone Chicago.

You want to discredit the Ravens defense but you failed to identify what they are actually lacking compared to the (other) top ones. Generating turnovers is clearly the weak point of the defense.

You are overstating every other flaw. Every unit has good/bad weeks and I dont know how you turned being ranked high against both the pass and run as a negative? If the turnovers were at a normal rate, the Ravens would clearly be the 2nd best defense this year, but it's the clear outlier in their profile.

[TheVillain112]

47 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Our bottom is the TNF Game against Cinci, but we also struggled against Cinci at home and Oakland just a couple of weeks ago. Not to mention that we just crumble every single time we need to make a stop late in a game to win the game. 

We're 5th in Pass DVOA, 5th in Rush DVOA, 27th(!!!) in Variance (aka how consistent we are on a week-to-week basis), with the 12th hardest DVOA schedule. I don't think there's any argument for us being on the same level as a team like Chicago (1st in Pass DVOA, 1st in Rush DVOA and 4th in variance).

Not saying those defenses last year were perfect, but they were THE BEST in one certain area. We aren't the best, or even top 3 in anything.

So this season, I think it's the Bears defense and then everyone else.  But the Ravens and Cowboys when the playoffs start can be about that same level the Vikings and Jags were last season.  Those defense were red hot, but cooled down and teams found weaknesses to exploit...

[.Buzz]

1 hour ago, SBLIII said:

I think Chicago is better than last years Jags. Jaguars struggled stopping the run. Bears are a complete defense.

Not after Dareus was acquired.

[Uncle Buck]

Bears are pretty darn good. 

[VigilantZombie]

3 hours ago, childofpudding said:

Chicago and Baltimore

Pretty much this.