boswell

[warfelg]

18 minutes ago, muncher said:

all im asking is that the team produces based on its talent level.

Simple question:

What if they are?  What if the talent level of this team the last 5-10 years is a playoff team with 1st/2nd round exit talent?

[CKSteeler]

Just now, warfelg said:

Simple question:

What if they are?  What if the talent level of this team the last 5-10 years is a playoff team with 1st/2nd round exit talent?

Whether they have or haven't played to their talent level, you'd be here to tell us how none of it is Tomlin's fault.

[3rivers]

5 minutes ago, CKSteeler said:

Reality - people actually would just be happy if the Steelers were at least competitive against NE and not routinely embarrassed. Or if there weren't several games a year where really dumb decisions by the head coach didn't cost the Steelers playoff seeding (or keep the team out of the playoffs). You know, simple things for a guy who some want us to believe is actually some great head coach.

routinely it has been,  and this really shows his lack of coaching and that's a reason for people to criticize .  Your post says it all, but for some reason many here defend him too much based on history.  The mystery of all is when they did win with press man coverage,  we thought they finally did it and know how to, just as many other teams did )KC, ravens, giants) . Insanity set in, tomlin had the steelers go back to their old ways, blame lebeau if you want, but tomlin could have said "we won with press/man last year, we are doing that this year and until it doesn't work"

[warfelg]

Deflect and troll?  Wow.  Cool.  Don't want to have the conversation that maybe the talent level is as high as some make it out to be?  I personally think that's the topped out talent level of a 1st/2nd round talent team.  We went from aging and declining Polumalu, Taylor, Kiesel, Farrior, Foote, Harrison to Dupree, Burns, Mitchell, Davis, Sensabaugh, Blake, heck I can't even remember half the names.  Where's all the talent that's supposed to carry us?  All our talent the 5-10 years has been a total a 4-7 players at a time, and they've taken up 50-60% of the cap.

[warfelg]

4 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

routinely it has been,  and this really shows his lack of coaching and that's a reason for people to criticize .  Your post says it all, but for some reason many here defend him too much based on history.  The mystery of all is when they did win with press man coverage,  we thought they finally did it and know how to, just as many other teams did )KC, ravens, giants) . Insanity set in, tomlin had the steelers go back to their old ways, blame lebeau if you want, but tomlin could have said "we won with press/man last year, we are doing that this year and until it doesn't work"

As a counter through:

Why should we base all the judgement on the NE games, against a top 3-4 coach of all time and the GOAT QB?

Isn't it a little short sighted to point to only his record against NE, and say that's the game that expose his issues?  Because news flash.....NE routinely does that to everyone.

[CKSteeler]

You want to have some subjective argument on "talent." But let's actually recall the specifics of what happens when Tomlin goes up against Belichick in a big game. From Mike Mitchell saying that a flea flicker the Pats had used in December not being in their film study (also used on Pittsburgh on at least two occasions in the past) to Bud Dupree saying that the Steelers were inexplicably caught off guard by the Patriots no-huddle. Yes, that Mike Tomlin, leader of men, knows how to prepare and get the most out of his guys...

Let's also remind everyone that it was just last year that Mike Tomlin sat on national TV and said that his team wouldn't be out-talented by anyone while also saying that they'd have a rematch against NE in January before the game was even played. So, Mike Tomlin, leader of men, disagrees with your own assessment of his teams talent. At least last year.

 

[CKSteeler]

8 minutes ago, warfelg said:

As a counter through:

Why should we base all the judgement on the NE games, against a top 3-4 coach of all time and the GOAT QB?

Isn't it a little short sighted to point to only his record against NE, and say that's the game that expose his issues?  Because news flash.....NE routinely does that to everyone.

Regardless of what anyone wants to say about the Steelers talent level, entirely comparable teams and coaches have put up far tougher fights over the years. But there's other examples. This team has been mediocre at best in the playoffs. Even most of the wins were lucky or slop filled nailbiters. Facing a Cinci team led by AJ McCarron, they blew a 4th quarter lead and needed a miracle to win it before they coughed up the game the next week against Denver (and while everyone remembers the fumble, they forget Tomlin's own poor decision making that kept that game so close. They needed 6 FG's to beat a KC team led by Alex Smith and nearly lost that one in the end. KC was at least a semi-respectable team with a semi-respectable head coach. Then there's Jacksonville.

The most impressive Tomlin post-season win Tomlin has to his resume since the loss to the Packers in 2010 is against a fluky Miami team in the wild card round.

Does anyone really believe that there aren't other coaches in the league who couldn't have taken the Steelers roster and won some of those games they lost or gotten more even in the games they won? They never even should have made it to Denver in 2015.

[warfelg]

No because one could argue the only less talented team than us in the playoffs we faced was the Tebow Broncos.  Like I said, we aren't as talented across the board as some pretend.  And yes talent matters that much.

[August4th]

 

[CKSteeler]

If it's all the talent, then what value is Tomlin bringing to the table? Why do you resist firing him so much? Does it make you hot or something to see him stand there in his aviators like a potted plant? I don't know what this guy does, but damn doesn't he look cool doing it!

Beyond that, Mike Tomlin has a strong voice in personnel decisions and the acquisition of said talent that you're blaming. So it's kind of a moot point to me. Coty Sensabaugh is still on the roster and now seeing significant snaps because Tomlin signed off on it (after failing to develop a CB that he was on board with drafting and ended up sucking).

In the world of Warfelg, if the Steelers had the right talent on the field, Tomlin would never have to make an important decision during the game. We'd never be in a position to laugh at his stupidity as he refuses to call TO's that clearly increase his chances of winning a game or decides to sit his franchise QB for a quarter and a half in a must-win game because he feels good about a 4 point lead despite his defense blowing larger leads each of the past two weeks. It's not fair to ask one of the highest paid coaches in the league to get basic decisions right or to have his guys prepared for plays that his opponents ran more than 4 weeks ago.

At this point, I don't even care. I kind of just want Roethlisberger to retire so this sham gets exposed for what he actually is.

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

As a counter through:

Why should we base all the judgement on the NE games, against a top 3-4 coach of all time and the GOAT QB?

Isn't it a little short sighted to point to only his record against NE, and say that's the game that expose his issues?  Because news flash.....NE routinely does that to everyone.

If you want to win the SB and are in the AFC you will have to play them, accept all 3 times the steelers got lucky and didn't have to.  NE doesn't do that to everyone, the dolphins, ravens, chiefs have won vs the pats to name a few. No need to go into this

As for short sighted. I didn't want to bring up playing down and losing to bad team etc, it's been done.

If you want to defend tomlin I get it.  

the end

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

At this point, I don't even care. I kind of just want Roethlisberger to retire so this sham gets exposed for what he actually is.

He has been a competitor that won in tough games, injured and all.  I just would like to know if there is a way he could be freed from drama and other BS, and I still think a coach could have done that at one time, but it has gone on for years now so forget it. It's too bad it has got to this point, but for me the drama and BS is what has done it. 

 

[August4th]

 

[Dcash4]

1 hour ago, August4th said:

 

Really, really weird. 1) why didn’t you do the tryout Tuesday? 2) why are you dragging it out both for Boz and for Kai? 

[43M]

8 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

At this point, I don't even care. I kind of just want Roethlisberger to retire so this sham gets exposed for what he actually is.

Its logic like this why no one takes your feelings on Tomlin seriously.

Its not even that you dont have legit gripes against Tomlin...you do.  We all do.    

Its that, no matter what, you look to blame him for everything and never ever give him credit for anything.    Youve never once, ever, given an objective, well thought out assessment of him.      All you do is attack him and bend over backwards to find ways to bash him or blame him for every little thing, while exhaustively making excuse after excuse for Ben.    For all of your attacking anyone who disagrees with you about Tomlin and calling us all Tomlin fanboys because we dont agree with your never ending stream of vitriol , your hypocrisy is hilarious since Ive seen you make far more excuses for Ben than ive seen anyone make excuses for Tomlin.

Tomlin has his flaws.   Glaring ones.   If he gets fired/replaced, so be it.     

I just find if funny that you use the logic that if Tomlin isnt winning without Ben, that it supposedly exposes him.   Okay....let us know all these coaches who are maintaining high levels of success WITHOUT a franchise QB.     This team has had more consistent success during Tomlin's tenure than every other team other than New England....even teams like Green Bay and New Orleans who have notably better QBs than Ben.

If Tomlin doesnt win after Ben is gone, obviously he is done.   Coaches cant survive without a franchise QB in todays league....hell, some cant even survive WITH one (see Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner,  Jim Caldwell, Mike Smith, Chuck Pagano).    Beyond Ben and QBs, and beyond roster talent, Tomlin has his on flaws that always hold him back.     Problem is, and one that you seemingly ignore, is that most coaches have notable flaws.    Given how often you compare Tomlin to Belichick, you seem to think that there are a bunch of Belichick caliber coaches out there.....when the reality is, most coaches out there are, at best, lateral moves from Tomlin, all with flaws of their own.        And hell, maybe it is time for a change, Im not really arguing against that....but it would be interesting to see if you would ridiculously cherry pick what to give the next coach credit for and what to blame him for the same way you do with Tomlin.