This team needs a 2nd round WR/TE/RB or equivalent FA

[Blink]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

At the expense of another, more important position?  We've seen Rodgers produce with average WRs (Jarrett Boykin, Jake Kumerow, etc.), but now he needs elite weapons?  Look, I'm all for getting more weapons for Rodgers, but I'm not giving up a more valuable position (EDGE, CB, OL, etc.) than another WR when we have some good, young WRs.

And go compare that to say EDGE or CB.  You have to draft certain positions early or don't bother drafting them late.  The point I was trying to make is that you can find quality WRs throughout the draft.  Of the 20 guys I mentioned, half of them were drafted in the 3rd round or later.  And don't forget, the position is only as good as the player throwing him the ball.

Very much disagree about this.  This is the first season that Geronimo Allison got significant burn, so calling him unlikely to play an entire season because of injury is completely unfounded.  MVS has done great things as a rookie, and he's arguably been top 5 in terms of rookie WR production.  And that's after having a slow start and hitting the rookie wall.

It's not never,  just not right now.  I don't need another elite WR for Rodgers, I just need a really good one (think Golden Tate-level).  I'd love to have another elite WR, but at the end of the day I think we can have an effective offense with or without an elite WR.  And you're right, it's based heavily on 2nd year jump.  But we're also talking about a year in a full offseason program that usually sees WRs make that Year 2 jump.

 

Boykin had one year of almost 700 yards and couldn’t get above 30 yards for the rest of his career

 

Kumerow has 2 catches on the year.  If this is the kind of production you’re ok with then we will never have a potent offense again.

 

Allison highest yearly total is 303 yards, and outside of one year playing 15 games he has only played in ten and five of the other two.  That’s a significant injury history, and remarkably pedestrian production.  Not sure why anyone would be satisfied with that as your number 2.

 

No one is saying to ignore other positions(we have been dumping huge amounts of picks into the defense for years with nothing to show for it) just that the current WR group is well below average and extremely easy to defend when only one guy produces week in and week out.  

 

Simply put if we go into next season with the same group and no improvements we will be missing the playoffs again, and I’m not naive enough to think the rookies will all magically make significant jumps.  

 

2018 NFL rules being so in favor of the offense and having the highest paid QB ever, and we are seemingly ok with having one of the worst receiving groups in the entire conference.  That will never make sense to me

[CWood21]

9 minutes ago, Blink said:

Boykin had one year of almost 700 yards and couldn’t get above 30 yards for the rest of his career

Kumerow has 2 catches on the year.  If this is the kind of production you’re ok with then we will never have a potent offense again.

Allison highest yearly total is 303 yards, and outside of one year playing 15 games he has only played in ten and five of the other two.  That’s a significant injury history, and remarkably pedestrian production.  Not sure why anyone would be satisfied with that as your number 2.

No one is saying to ignore other positions(we have been dumping huge amounts of picks into the defense for years with nothing to show for it) just that the current WR group is well below average and extremely easy to defend when only one guy produces week in and week out.  

Simply put if we go into next season with the same group and no improvements we will be missing the playoffs again, and I’m not naive enough to think the rookies will all magically make significant jumps.  

2018 NFL rules being so in favor of the offense and having the highest paid QB ever, and we are seemingly ok with having one of the worst receiving groups in the entire conference.  That will never make sense to me

Boykin is the exact type of WR I was talking about.  He was a bum and yet he was still productive.  Your entire argument hinges on the fact that Kumerow and Allison haven't had the opportunities.  Last year, Geronimo Allison played in 343 snaps.  This year, Allison played in 241 snaps.  Last year, Allison had 23 receptions for 253 receiving yards and 0 TD on 39 targets.  This year, Allison had 12 receptions for 202 receiving yards and 2 TD receptions on 22 targets.  Am I saying I'm comfortable going into the 2019 season with our WRs behind Adams being MVS, Allison, and ESB?  No, but I'm not chomping at the bit to add a rookie WR whose really not going to produce at a high level.  The Panthers just invested a FRP into DJ Moore (47 receptions, 676 receiving yards, 2 TD receptions) while the Cardinals invested a SRP into Christian Kirk (43 receptions, 590 receiving yards, 3 TD receptions).  Which one was better value?

We only have a finite number of ways to improve our roster.  We probably need to add at least one RB, add a veteran WR to protect the Packers, find a future starting TE, starting RT, and a future starting RT on the offensive side of the ball.  On the defensive side of the ball, we need at least one more DL, two starting EDGE, one ILB for numbers, and two starting safeties.  Probably wouldn't hurt to add more depth to our CB position either.  If the choice comes down to spending money on a veteran WR or investing a semi-premium pick on a WR, I'll take the veteran WR.

[pacman5252]

I know PFF isn't everything, but lets check the grades;

Adams is a stud. WR 7. After that though;

EQ is the 93rd ranked WR on PFF

MVS is 89th

Cobb 94th

Allison 90th

Jimmy Grahm TE 39

Rodgers is QB 6

It is like the people that are paid to watch the film are saying what I have been saying. We have;

-one stud

- a few late round development prospects that are further away than people want to admit

- some has beens who shouldn't be playing.

 

Stop putting the young guys on a pedestal because they have some athletic ability. Stop thinking that out of nowhere, MVS/EQ  will blossom into Diggs/Thielen (mega exceptions). They are a long ways away from being able to play and we are mega deficient on the perimeter. 

 

 

 

 

[skibrett15]

40 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Boykin is the exact type of WR I was talking about.  He was a bum and yet he was still productive.

If Boykin can be productive, that's what Allison is, but probably a little bit better.  If Allison is mediocre, and I think he is, how does that make the rookies look in comparison?

If Rodgers makes these WRs so much better than they actually are, what will a legitimately good player look like with Rodgers?  A receiver he grows to trust like Adams.

 

What can this offense be with 2 legitimate studs?  As good or better than 2015? 2011?

[Blink]

Rodgers shouldn’t have to be surrounded with below average talent and be expected to turn them into capable players.  Our team was at its best when he had playmakers to work with, now he’s got one elite WR and a crowd of below average WRs and TEs.

I get that everyone wants to forget about the skill positions because of Aaron’s contract, but that reality is just not working out.  Surround your best player with talent and let him get back to form instead of having to drag the offense kicking and screaming 

[pacman5252]

I think people need to stop putting EQ/MV on a pedestal. They are rookies with a couple tools that are only getting PT because we really suck at those positions. They have some tools but if they were on the team 5 years ago, we'd be thinking of them the same way we thought of Janis, Abby, Charles Johnson, David Clowney... Some talent, need a lot of work, and replaceable.

[CWood21]

41 minutes ago, pacman5252 said:

I think people need to stop putting EQ/MV on a pedestal. They are rookies with a couple tools that are only getting PT because we really suck at those positions. They have some tools but if they were on the team 5 years ago, we'd be thinking of them the same way we thought of Janis, Abby, Charles Johnson, David Clowney... Some talent, need a lot of work, and replaceable.

Who is putting them on a pedestal?

[packfanfb]

Why are the people who are against cutting Crosby because "we have more cap room than we can even spend so there's no need to cut him" the same people who are against signing a FA WR because "we need to use our available cap money on more premium, preferably defensive, positions?" 

 

[SSG]

4 hours ago, Leader said:

Oh dont say that!
Truth is the arc of both EQ & MVS has seemed to have flat lined over the last month. Not sure why that is - but wasnt the development I was hoping for earlier in the year. 

Well they aren't on the field because they are great talents.  They are on the field because our WR core is as weak as it's been since Ted Thompson took over the team (not counting 2015 when we lost Jordy who was in his prime).  

While some fans are making them out to be elite talents because of the destain for Rodgers, they aren't.  I hope I'm wrong and we something a lot of Packer fans on this board have never seen.... A low end WR prospect developing into a starter early in their career.  Some are making it sound like the normal when in reality they've seen it occur in Green Bay.  

 

[SSG]

4 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I disagree.  We're a competent HC/QB combination next year from being right back in the mix.  We've got a few issues (EDGE, S, OL) that needs to be addressed, but I think wek can be right in the playoff mix.  With the exception of the Redskins' game, we're losing by an average of 6.3 points.  Even in the Patriots game, the Patriots got a late touchdown to push the lead to 14 points.  If you subscribe to the close wins/loss theory, we're sitting -3 in close wins/losses, so we're probably not really as bad as our record indicates.

It's not just about the record.  A terrible 49ers team looked every bit our equal on both sides of the ball when we needed a come from behind win early in the year.  A bad Detroit team shut us out in the first half and looked like the superior team on offense, defense and ST.  Same thing happened with a horrid Arizona team that came into Lambeau and had no issues handling us.  This wasn't a season with just a bunch of losses this was a season where we legitametly looked like one of the 3 or 4 worst teams in the league with terrible struggles on offense, defense and ST.  

There are major holes all over this team.  At WR, TE, OL, DL, Edge, LB and in the secondary.  This isn't a team that is just a  HC away from competing for a SB.

 

[cannondale]

Overestimating what we could get out of MVS or ESB in their rookie year doesn't mean they are dead in the water for their careers. The same can even be said for Moore. The measurables are there. Next year will tell the tale. 

[Joe]

I can't buy into the original premise of this thread, not with half of the team injured and a new HC coming in. I'll agree that our receiving corps isn't what it used to be, but with Cobb constantly dinged up, Allison on IR, and now four rookies on the roster...c'mon....and that's not to mention the injury bug our OL has caught. Its 2005 all over again, only Aaron's not throwing 29 interceptions like Favre did.

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, skibrett15 said:

If Boykin can be productive, that's what Allison is, but probably a little bit better.  If Allison is mediocre, and I think he is, how does that make the rookies look in comparison?

If Rodgers makes these WRs so much better than they actually are, what will a legitimately good player look like with Rodgers?  A receiver he grows to trust like Adams.

 

What can this offense be with 2 legitimate studs?  As good or better than 2015? 2011?

Over a 16 game period, Allison's numbers prorate out to 64 receptions, 970 receiving yards, and 6 TD receptions.  Boykin's best year was 49 receptions, 681 receiving yards, and 3 TD receptions.  He's a solid WR which I'm not sure anyone is arguing otherwise.  The question is that rookie WR really going to be a stud as a rookie?  No.

[CWood21]

27 minutes ago, SSG said:

It's not just about the record.  A terrible 49ers team looked every bit our equal on both sides of the ball when we needed a come from behind win early in the year.  A bad Detroit team shut us out in the first half and looked like the superior team on offense, defense and ST.  Same thing happened with a horrid Arizona team that came into Lambeau and had no issues handling us.  This wasn't a season with just a bunch of losses this was a season where we legitametly looked like one of the 3 or 4 worst teams in the league with terrible struggles on offense, defense and ST.  

There are major holes all over this team.  At WR, TE, OL, DL, Edge, LB and in the secondary.  This isn't a team that is just a  HC away from competing for a SB.

We also beat the Bears by 1 in Week 1, tied the Vikings in Week 2, lost by 2 to the Rams in Week 8, and if it wasn't a late TD would have been a TD short of the Patriots.  Let's not pretend like we're getting absolutely blasted.  We're a bad team whose had some bad luck.

[coachbuns]

5 hours ago, CWood21 said:

At the expense of another, more important position?  We've seen Rodgers produce with average WRs (Jarrett Boykin, Jake Kumerow, etc.), but now he needs elite weapons?  Look, I'm all for getting more weapons for Rodgers, but I'm not giving up a more valuable position (EDGE, CB, OL, etc.) than another WR when we have some good, young WRs.

And go compare that to say EDGE or CB.  You have to draft certain positions early or don't bother drafting them late.  The point I was trying to make is that you can find quality WRs throughout the draft.  Of the 20 guys I mentioned, half of them were drafted in the 3rd round or later.  And don't forget, the position is only as good as the player throwing him the ball.

Very much disagree about this.  This is the first season that Geronimo Allison got significant burn, so calling him unlikely to play an entire season because of injury is completely unfounded.  MVS has done great things as a rookie, and he's arguably been top 5 in terms of rookie WR production.  And that's after having a slow start and hitting the rookie wall.

It's not never,  just not right now.  I don't need another elite WR for Rodgers, I just need a really good one (think Golden Tate-level).  I'd love to have another elite WR, but at the end of the day I think we can have an effective offense with or without an elite WR.  And you're right, it's based heavily on 2nd year jump.  But we're also talking about a year in a full offseason program that usually sees WRs make that Year 2 jump.

Everybody thinks the young receivers will take that big jump next year.  We'd better not put all our hopes and prayers into believing that and not getting a mid level free agent  or two in here.  I'm hoping you are right but I'll feel a lot better when I see it next year,