AKRNA Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Cleveland at Denver Saturday, Dec 15th 4:30 AKST A Great historical rivalry that produced both “The Drive” and “The Fumble” in consecutive years in the AFC Championship game. Two teams that are both vastly improved from last year and IMO both on an upward trajectory. It’s really gut check time now for both teams. With the playoffs out of reach for both it comes down to pride. We’ll learn a lot about both teams in the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Given that it's a Saturday night game, it's definitely a game for pride for both orgs (and man, MNF with DEN @ OAK Week 16 even more so lol). We're not breaking down new ground with our team, but with CLE, it's an interesting matchup for sure, namely... 1. Baker Mayfield and how he handles our pass rush pressure - the CLE OL is very good at run blocking, but if there's a weakness, it's in their T play, especially in pass pro (how they had 4 top 40 picks and didn't get a LT out of that yield is a little crazy, although it's hard to criticize Nick Chubb at 2.4; the head scratcher was Austin Corbett, who's not able to transition to T). Sound familiar? Well, that means it's a huge matchup problem with our EDGES. Baker's looked great several games for sure, and this early, it means the likelihood of a pure bust is very, very low. But he also crumbled hard @ HOU with pressure - how does he fare this week with Von & co.? This is a huge key, because the matchup that should scare DEN fans is... 2. CLE's WR & TE's vs. our leaky pass coverage - man, that was one ugly display. And while George Kittle is an absolute beast, David Njoku is another emerging young talent (further behind Kittle, probably another year away). And Jarvis Landry and the mercurial Antonio Callaway (along with reclamation project Breshad Perriman - Rashad Higgins has been a good story, but he's mostly JAG) must be salivating at the thought of facing our secondary. And if that isn't enough, CLE boasts a top RB pass catching talent in Duke Johnson, Jr. So yeah....tough draw there. 3. Chubb & the run game vs. our run D - gotta say how much Nick Chubb has impressed. Saquon Barkley and Lindsay probably finish 1-2 in OROY voting this year and deservedly so, but I suspect a fair amount of CLE fans will stump for Chubb, who's been just outstanding in limited work. And like our OL, the CLE OL does much better in the run game than in pass pro. This will be a big test for our run D, who's been great some weeks, and baffling in others. Now, when we get the ball on O....well, ugh: 1. Keenum....sigh - I really don't know what else to say. Without pressure, with pressure, play-action, from the gun - it's been brutal to watch. VJ has gone on record that Keenum needs to push the ball downfield - the problem is, he's been awful at doing that. So this could get really ugly. And that's really bad news, because this week the worst matchup we face is... 2. CLE's pass rush vs. our pass pro - Myles Garrett is certainly justifying the 1.1 pick last year. Total animal. And the rest of that front 7 is really emerging (Joe Schobert in the LB corps for sure). If VJ wants Keenum to push the ball downfield, that means the pass pro has to hold up. Which is a real problem given the mismatch, so we'll see how that goes. CLE really has a nasty 2019 D if they can get 1 more difference maker in their... 3. Secondary vs. our young WR/TE corps - if CLE gets another top CB to join Denzel Ward, that's a tough draw. Ward's size difference vs. Sutton in theory gives DEN a way to go there, but Ward's such a great cover guy, tough matchup for sure. Right now, though, outside of Ward, there is some room to be had - so I'd expect DeSean Hamilton to get a lot of looks. CLE also has been vulnerable to the TE, so I'd really hope we see more targets there. 4. Their run D vs. our run game - if Keenum can't make D's respect the pass game, then Lindsay & co. are in for rough times. CLE has been hurt in the deep throwing game, but they've been much better of late at stopping the run (where early on, they struggled). With SS Peppers there, I expect we'll see a repeat of Week 14 with SF and 8 in the box, stuffing the run, and daring Keenum to beat us. Of course, I've not addressed 3 intangibles that are always keys: 1. TO's - let's face it, we won 2 games vs. much better teams because we had a 6-0 TO advantage (LAC & PIT). We lost last week because our O sucked hard, and we turned the ball over 2x on downs (vs. getting the 1 TO by Stewart). 2. ToP/Field Position - with an altitude game, wearing out the D is key on either side. You get 35+ mins of ToP, very rare to lose games in DEN...which brings up the last one... 3. HFA - no doubt, it's always a plus on our side. CLE was smart enough to come to DEN early, to get used to the altitude. I'm surprised why more teams don't do this more. As I've said all along, I don't really care if we win or lose, given we aren't legit contenders - so long as we try hard, and it develops the character of our young core, and our kids get to play. I do look forward to watching another emerging franchise - what Sashi Brown to set up the turnaround bearing fruit is truly impressive (and the org finally getting rid of the cancer that was Hue Jackson as HC, he and Jeff Fisher will go down as 2 of the worst HC's in pro sports...ever). I think with Hue gone, the Browns have been 3-2 (and CIN who hired him..0-4 lol). OC Freddy Kitchens has been AWESOME in dialing up plays that leverage their best mismatches, really impressed (although they screwed the pooch badly @ HOU, tough place, but that was ugly). TO's will likely decide it, but with generational talent Von vs. Baker and generational talent Garrett & co. vs. Keenum - even with HFA, I'd see a CLE 24-21 type game (if it was a neutral field, I'd see a 7+ pt CLE win). Either way though, I look forward to seeing 2 young teams fight it out in prime time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vee-Rex Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 15 hours ago, Broncofan said: Given that it's a Saturday night game, it's definitely a game for pride for both orgs (and man, MNF with DEN @ OAK Week 16 even more so lol). We're not breaking down new ground with our team, but with CLE, it's an interesting matchup for sure, namely... 1. Baker Mayfield and how he handles our pass rush pressure - the CLE OL is very good at run blocking, but if there's a weakness, it's in their T play, especially in pass pro (how they had 4 top 40 picks and didn't get a LT out of that yield is a little crazy, although it's hard to criticize Nick Chubb at 2.4; the head scratcher was Austin Corbett, who's not able to transition to T). Sound familiar? Well, that means it's a huge matchup problem with our EDGES. Baker's looked great several games for sure, and this early, it means the likelihood of a pure bust is very, very low. But he also crumbled hard @ HOU with pressure - how does he fare this week with Von & co.? This is a huge key, because the matchup that should scare DEN fans is... 2. CLE's WR & TE's vs. our leaky pass coverage - man, that was one ugly display. And while George Kittle is an absolute beast, David Njoku is another emerging young talent (further behind Kittle, probably another year away). And Jarvis Landry and the mercurial Antonio Callaway (along with reclamation project Breshad Perriman - Rashad Higgins has been a good story, but he's mostly JAG) must be salivating at the thought of facing our secondary. And if that isn't enough, CLE boasts a top RB pass catching talent in Duke Johnson, Jr. So yeah....tough draw there. 3. Chubb & the run game vs. our run D - gotta say how much Nick Chubb has impressed. Saquon Barkley and Lindsay probably finish 1-2 in OROY voting this year and deservedly so, but I suspect a fair amount of CLE fans will stump for Chubb, who's been just outstanding in limited work. And like our OL, the CLE OL does much better in the run game than in pass pro. This will be a big test for our run D, who's been great some weeks, and baffling in others. Now, when we get the ball on O....well, ugh: 1. Keenum....sigh - I really don't know what else to say. Without pressure, with pressure, play-action, from the gun - it's been brutal to watch. VJ has gone on record that Keenum needs to push the ball downfield - the problem is, he's been awful at doing that. So this could get really ugly. And that's really bad news, because this week the worst matchup we face is... 2. CLE's pass rush vs. our pass pro - Myles Garrett is certainly justifying the 1.1 pick last year. Total animal. And the rest of that front 7 is really emerging (Joe Schobert in the LB corps for sure). If VJ wants Keenum to push the ball downfield, that means the pass pro has to hold up. Which is a real problem given the mismatch, so we'll see how that goes. CLE really has a nasty 2019 D if they can get 1 more difference maker in their... 3. Secondary vs. our young WR/TE corps - if CLE gets another top CB to join Denzel Ward, that's a tough draw. Ward's size difference vs. Sutton in theory gives DEN a way to go there, but Ward's such a great cover guy, tough matchup for sure. Right now, though, outside of Ward, there is some room to be had - so I'd expect DeSean Hamilton to get a lot of looks. CLE also has been vulnerable to the TE, so I'd really hope we see more targets there. 4. Their run D vs. our run game - if Keenum can't make D's respect the pass game, then Lindsay & co. are in for rough times. CLE has been hurt in the deep throwing game, but they've been much better of late at stopping the run (where early on, they struggled). With SS Peppers there, I expect we'll see a repeat of Week 14 with SF and 8 in the box, stuffing the run, and daring Keenum to beat us. Of course, I've not addressed 3 intangibles that are always keys: 1. TO's - let's face it, we won 2 games vs. much better teams because we had a 6-0 TO advantage (LAC & PIT). We lost last week because our O sucked hard, and we turned the ball over 2x on downs (vs. getting the 1 TO by Stewart). 2. ToP/Field Position - with an altitude game, wearing out the D is key on either side. You get 35+ mins of ToP, very rare to lose games in DEN...which brings up the last one... 3. HFA - no doubt, it's always a plus on our side. CLE was smart enough to come to DEN early, to get used to the altitude. I'm surprised why more teams don't do this more. As I've said all along, I don't really care if we win or lose, given we aren't legit contenders - so long as we try hard, and it develops the character of our young core, and our kids get to play. I do look forward to watching another emerging franchise - what Sashi Brown to set up the turnaround bearing fruit is truly impressive (and the org finally getting rid of the cancer that was Hue Jackson as HC, he and Jeff Fisher will go down as 2 of the worst HC's in pro sports...ever). I think with Hue gone, the Browns have been 3-2 (and CIN who hired him..0-4 lol). OC Freddy Kitchens has been AWESOME in dialing up plays that leverage their best mismatches, really impressed (although they screwed the pooch badly @ HOU, tough place, but that was ugly). TO's will likely decide it, but with generational talent Von vs. Baker and generational talent Garrett & co. vs. Keenum - even with HFA, I'd see a CLE 24-21 type game (if it was a neutral field, I'd see a 7+ pt CLE win). Either way though, I look forward to seeing 2 young teams fight it out in prime time. Wonderful summary, my friend. Should be a fun game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I'd like to see Elway and Koser suit up for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bMiller031 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 18 hours ago, Broncofan said: Saquon Barkley and Lindsay probably finish 1-2 in OROY voting this year and deservedly so, but I suspect a fair amount of CLE fans will stump for Chubb, who's been just outstanding in limited work. Great summary. Wouldn't Baker be a more deserving candidate for OROY consideration than Chubb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 49 minutes ago, bMiller031 said: Great summary. Wouldn't Baker be a more deserving candidate for OROY consideration than Chubb? Yeah that’s absolutely a fair point - but if you read the main FF forum the argument that Chubb would be equally as productive as Barkley went on for several weeks. There’s no doubt Lindsay and Chubb are better values for the capital spent but the fact Barkley has done what he did behind the brutal NYG OL (while Chubb and Lindsay have excelled but behind far better OL’s) and corpse Eli there’s no doubt he’s a generational talent. No shame in finishing behind him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Well the D mismatch just levelled a little more in our favor - no Ward is a big blow to CLE, as their secondary is definitely the weakest part of that D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Well the D mismatch just levelled a little more in our favor - no Ward is a big blow to CLE, as their secondary is definitely the weakest part of that D. I can't believe his concussion is still lingering hasn't he had if for a couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 34 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: I can't believe his concussion is still lingering hasn't he had if for a couple weeks. If he's never had a concussion before, it's a bit surprising, but not unheard of. If he's had a concussion before, even in high school or earlier, well, then it's not so surprising. It's certainly going to add more risk to his long-term outlook if he doesn't recover soon. Having said that, there's no real benefit to CLE playing him now, they are out of the playoff hunt, so it could even be them just playing it ultra-safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Broncofan said: If he's never had a concussion before, it's a bit surprising, but not unheard of. If he's had a concussion before, even in high school or earlier, well, then it's not so surprising. It's certainly going to add more risk to his long-term outlook if he doesn't recover soon. Having said that, there's no real benefit to CLE playing him now, they are out of the playoff hunt, so it could even be them just playing it ultra-safe. Yeah and there isn’t any clear cut timeline for concussion recovery, it affects everyone differently. I had a severe one a few years back snowboarding (no memory of the event, no memory of 6 hours after the event) and was completely symptom free in 7 days. I’ve heard stories of people with similar memory loss who didn’t feel normal for months. Headaches, fatigue, sensitivity to light. There also isn’t a clear cut way to determine someone has healed or making progress, unless they’re being honest when asked about symptoms. It seems most NFL players are back within a week or 2, but I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest if a lot of players are lying about symptoms just to get back on the field. Just because you pass a memory test doesn’t mean you’ve healed from a concussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Lindsay beating out Baker in OROY voting? If Lindsay has 150 yards and 2 TDs I’ll start to believe you. *realizes that’s exactly what’s going to happen* DOH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Here's what's going to happen: I'd just love to see us win this weekend and a Pitt/Balt loss/losses. I doubt Tampa upsets Baltimore on the road, but New England is coming off of a loss and absolutely owns Pittsburgh head to head as of late, with the Steelers in almost complete meltdown mode. Assuming Baltimore wins, that puts them at 8-6 going AT San Diego, and if we were to upset Denver, we'd be 6-7-1 going into Cinci, where we'd be the clear favorites. Pitt would be 7-6-1 going into a game AT New Orleans (7-7-1 anyone????). We could very well be sitting at 7-7-1 with the 7-7-1 Steelers and 8-7 Ravens. A win against Baltimore would put us ahead of them, and we'd need the Bengals to pull of a miracle AT Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 ^^^^...Carol...Carol...there is no Pepe Silva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Always got to love all the football insight a post full of .gifs provides. I cannot stand Baker Mayfield, I want to see Von and Chubb knock his a$$ into next week. I don't even care of who wins the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity_Cometh Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 4 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: Always got to love all the football insight a post full of .gifs provides. I cannot stand Baker Mayfield, I want to see Von and Chubb knock his a$$ into next week. I don't even care of who wins the game. What bothers you about him? Simply curious, no agenda here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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