DaBoys Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 You have heard all year long about the struggles of the Dallas Cowboys OL. After all, Fredbeard never played, Connor Williams was something less than dominant, XSF was signed off the street, Tyron has been hurt, Zack has dealt with a knee sprain all year, Looney is a career back up, and Collins struggled under Alexander. Plus, you have smitten Dak-cult leaders who spew nonsense like this: "The most key part to Dak playing well is the OL imo. Its been awful since Smiths injury last year. " Actual quote from @Matts4313 just 4 hours ago. So how do we separate fact from fiction; truth from blind hate? OL don't have stats that are easy to see. We know the OL hasn't been it's typical top 3 self but is it really a historically bad OL like the sacks and lack or overall offensive production suggest? We have also seen Dak have tons of time, Zeke get tons of room, and we all see these big 300 pounders flying down field on screens. So has our OL been that bad? In short..... no. It's not historically bad, it's not relatively bad, it's not even bad compared to other 2018 OL. In fact, "not bad" is a pretty good way to describe them. One might even say they've been good this year. After week 10, PFF ranked our offensive line SIXTH overall in the NFL. Mind you this is only two games after Amari Cooper got to town. We lost one of those games, so the heat was very much still on at 4-5, but we had a good unit. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-10 Since Amari has been here, we have actually dropped in the rankings to 11th after week 12. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-12 Still very much, above average. To top it off, of the top 25 highest rated blockers of 2018, two of them are Cowboys. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-offensive-linemen-of-the-2018-nfl-season In conclusion, no the OL hasn't been elite, and how could they be with the injuries they've had? And yes I am worried about Martin, and Tyrons health. But to say that a top 10 unit has been the source of our problems is scapegoating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Okay. You did see the stat that over half the RB’s in the top 20 of totally yardage have a higher YPC then Zeke and also Zeke is one of the leaders in carries over ten plus yards. What does that tell me Very few doubt Zeke is a top 1 or 2 Rb so our OL is not blocking as well on most plays as a lot of other teams. Sure they block a few good plays a game so Zeke gets his one or two big runs but mostly he faces crap blocking which if you watch the games the eye test will tell you this as he’s on more then half his runs getting hit it having to avoid contact behind the LOS. And YOU can not make me believe that the high sack total hit totals that Dak faces every game is not at least half or more on the OL. Also holding penalties are regularly Almost 2-1 or 3-1 for us versus the other guys Have you watched us try and run short yardage???? Have you watched our OL struggle to protect when the teams even only rush 4 or 5??? just to be clear you are saying our weakest link with our offense is DAK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAPJ Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, DaBoys said: You have heard all year long about the struggles of the Dallas Cowboys OL. After all, Fredbeard never played, Connor Williams was something less than dominant, XSF was signed off the street, Tyron has been hurt, Zack has dealt with a knee sprain all year, Looney is a career back up, and Collins struggled under Alexander. Plus, you have smitten Dak-cult leaders who spew nonsense like this: "The most key part to Dak playing well is the OL imo. Its been awful since Smiths injury last year. " Actual quote from @Matts4313 just 4 hours ago. So how do we separate fact from fiction; truth from blind hate? OL don't have stats that are easy to see. We know the OL hasn't been it's typical top 3 self but is it really a historically bad OL like the sacks and lack or overall offensive production suggest? We have also seen Dak have tons of time, Zeke get tons of room, and we all see these big 300 pounders flying down field on screens. So has our OL been that bad? In short..... no. It's not historically bad, it's not relatively bad, it's not even bad compared to other 2018 OL. In fact, "not bad" is a pretty good way to describe them. One might even say they've been good this year. After week 10, PFF ranked our offensive line SIXTH overall in the NFL. Mind you this is only two games after Amari Cooper got to town. We lost one of those games, so the heat was very much still on at 4-5, but we had good unit. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-10 Since Amari has been here, we have actually dropped in the rankings to 11th after week 12. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-12 Still very much, above average. To top it off, of the top 25 highest rated blockers of 2018, two of them are Cowboys. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-top-25-offensive-linemen-of-the-2018-nfl-season In conclusion, no the OL hasn't been elite, and how could they be with the injuries they've had? And yes I am worried about Martin, and Tyrons health. But to say that a top 10 unit has been the source of our problems is scapegoating. Exactly! If were comparing their performance this year to the 2016 version, then yes we have regressed and not nearly as good. However that was one of the best O Line performances you will see and to expect that year over year is asinine. This unit is still above average and yes it has played poorly at times, but a lot of teams would still kill to have this line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 Zeke having a lower YPC compared to other backs has more to do with the sheer volume of carries, and how he is used. Alot of those high YPC backs are used in space, on 3rd downs, and are sprinkled in the gameplan, while Zeke is asked to get dirty yards. And to be clear, there is only 5 RBs in the league with over 200 carries. Zeke has a higher average than all but Saquan Barkley, and he's 2/10ths of a yard behind Gurley. Only 3 RBs have over 220 carries while Zeke has 268. And we are talking about a guy who is averaging 4.7 YPC on 268 carries like it's a bad stat! This is all while defenses OPENLY and shamelessly ADMITTED they were focused only on stopping Zeke the first half of the season. Let's see Phillip Lindsay maintain his 5.8YPC at 268 carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, quiller said: just to be clear you are saying our weakest link with our offense is DAK I would say it's the TE group. Though they had a good week last week, on paper, and overall this year, they have been what we thought they were. I think the OL has been exactly what the grades suggest they've been, which is a borderline top 10 unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slamman Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Football outsiders has us as the 9th best OL in the NFL... https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 2 hours ago, DaBoys said: In conclusion, no the OL hasn't been elite, and how could they be with the injuries they've had? And yes I am worried about Martin, and Tyrons health. But to say that a top 10 unit has been the source of our problems is scapegoating. You dolt. You really want a second thread to blow up in your face? Drop the $200 and realize that our run grade is top 10 and our passing grade for the line is below average. If you are going to make a dumb thread, at least understand what you are linking too. Or you can ask @The_Slamman to fund your proposition. He may split the tab 50/50 with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 57 minutes ago, The_Slamman said: Football outsiders has us as the 9th best OL in the NFL... https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol We have two of them that dont understand what they are linking too... Nice job. #9 in Run Blocking #30 in PASS BLOCKING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Slamman Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: We have two of them that dont understand what they are linking too... Nice job. #9 in Run Blocking #30 in PASS BLOCKING No Matts, you don’t get it... all they are doing is quantifying percentage of sacks per pass attempt. It’s strictly a quantitative analysis in pass blocking, nothing qualitative. Yeah, Dak has taken an absurd amount of sacks this year... the majority of those are on Dak. Dak gets sacked on 10% of his drop backs. Eli gets sacked on over 8%... does that mean that Eli gets better pass blocking? No. It just means he takes slightly less sacks. This is something that has been widely discussed as cowboys fans... Dak holding on to the ball too long, not throwing the ball away, and actually moving into pressure. It’s been a major problem that Dak has taken sacks that move us out of FG range, etc. The issue is NOT that Dak doesn’t have time to throw but rather he’s been indecisive which results in sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, The_Slamman said: No Matts, you don’t get it... all they are doing is quantifying percentage of sacks per pass attempt. It’s strictly a quantitative analysis in pass blocking, nothing qualitative. Yeah, Dak has taken an absurd amount of sacks this year... the majority of those are on Dak. Dak gets sacked on 10% of his drop backs. Eli gets sacked on over 8%... does that mean that Eli gets better pass blocking? No. It just means he takes slightly less sacks. This is something that has been widely discussed as cowboys fans... Dak holding on to the ball too long, not throwing the ball away, and actually moving into pressure. It’s been a major problem that Dak has taken sacks that move us out of FG range, etc. The issue is NOT that Dak doesn’t have time to throw but rather he’s been indecisive which results in sacks. Dak historically was saked on 6% of his drop backs... This year its 12%. Whose fault is that? Did you read the articles that show that at *MOST* Dak can be attributed to ~15 of the sacks? Which means even if you take those out, Dak would still be taking the most sacks in his career. Did you read the information I posted earlier in the year that the best pass blocking grade (cough cough @DaBoys) was Zack Martin. He had a rating of "Good". Every one else was average to terrible => IN PASS BLOCKING SPECIFICALLY? So basically any analytics you look at will tell you that our OL is atrocious for pass blocking. This blew up in some peoples faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas_OutLaw7 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 It's not a stretch to say the OL has struggled. Us not being able to rely on it has added pressure to Dak, which he isn't equipped to handle. We have failed to convert in short-down situations on multiple times forcing our hands to 4th downs. Those were Gimmie's before. But our Star LT is injured. Our LG is a rookie or a FA. Our Star C is out for the year. Our Star RG just got injured. And our RT is supposed to be the 4th best player on the OL... Dak's play has just highlighted that the Offensive Line is a shadow of its former self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 LOL at this latest thread. Just seems like another angle to help diminish Dak. Wow I'm not so sure any of the teams Forum has these type of arguments. But the one thing I'll give credit for with Daboys , is he starts a conversation flowing on here. I guess it's better than not having anything to talk about. But this so-called hating on Dak is pretty comical at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBoys Posted December 14, 2018 Author Share Posted December 14, 2018 Hey, the OL has been bashed all year, and the numbers show they are, at the very very least, a top 15 unit in a 32 team league. When someone points out that the OL isn't doing that bad and you somehow feel that's a diss on Dak you might defensive. de·fen·sive /dəˈfensiv/ adjective 2. very anxious to challenge or avoid criticism. "he was very defensive about that side of his life" synonyms: self-justifying, oversensitive, prickly, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, DaBoys said: Hey, the OL has been bashed all year, and the numbers show they are, at the very very least, a top 15 unit in a 32 team league. When someone points out that the OL isn't doing that bad and you somehow feel that's a diss on Dak you might defensive. de·fen·sive /dəˈfensiv/ adjective 2. very anxious to challenge or avoid criticism. "he was very defensive about that side of his life" synonyms: self-justifying, oversensitive, prickly, The OL is ranked 30 out of 32 in pass blocking. So that is atrocious. a·tro·cious /əˈtrōSHəs/ adjective horrifyingly wicked. "atrocious cruelties" synonyms: brutal, barbaric, barbarous, savage, vicious, beastly; More of a very poor quality; extremely bad or unpleasant. "he attempted an atrocious imitation of my English accent" synonyms: appalling, dreadful, terrible, very bad, unpleasant, miserable; More Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 2 hours ago, resilient part 2 said: LOL at this latest thread. Just seems like another angle to help diminish Dak. 10 minutes ago, DaBoys said: When someone points out that the OL isn't doing that bad and you somehow feel that's a diss on Dak you might defensive. Quote Plus, you have smitten Dak-cult leaders who spew nonsense like this: "The most key part to Dak playing well is the OL imo. Its been awful since Smiths injury last year. " Actual quote from @Matts4313 just 4 hours ago. hy·poc·ri·sy /həˈpäkrəsē/ noun noun: hypocrisy; plural noun: hypocrisies the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense. synonyms: dissimulation, false virtue, cant, posturing, affectation, speciousness, empty talk, insincerity, falseness, deceit, dishonesty, mendacity, pretense, duplicity; More antonyms: sincerity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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