Jump to content

Let the Offseason Begin


jsthomp2007

Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

The timing of this tells me he wants out of Denver. Asking for an amount you know they aren't going to pay a 30 year old, and then demanding a trade right before the draft (his best chance to get traded) says all it needs to. Thank you for your services CHJ; best of luck to you. 

The timing is all on Elway - his presser basically lit the match and poured gasoline on the situation.   When Elway's handled Q's on contract extensions, even for guys where they didn't get it done, Elway always said "we'll tackle it after the draft, we hope we can get it done, we love player X".   He went out of his way to say that the extension wasn't a lock at all, but they'd talk.   After shelling out 33M/3 years and 23M guaranteed to a 30 year-old Kareem Jackson.    Harris didn't make any noise, and played it silent until Elway chose to make the issue public from his end - this wasn't Harris coming out to Elway beforehand, this was Harris responding to Elway's firing shots across his bow.

I say all the above as a guy who thinks we are way better off cutting ties now, given our roster and cap situation, and the contract demands - but I can't put the timing on Harris at all.  This was Elway hubris at his finest yesterday.  There was really no reason to pull that card yesterday, but he went that route.  I don't blame Elway or DEN for deciding 15M AAV isn't a good investment at 30 even for a star like Harris, but he owns the timing of yesterday's events.

Edited by Broncofan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I said a few weeks ago that I would be p*ssed if Elway didn't pay Harris - and if it happens then I am all for hanging Elway.

Harris has been a true Bronco his entire career here - he took a discount the last time to help the team win - his cap hit the season the Broncos won the SB was $3milllion. Harris is currently the 24th highest paid CB in the NFL - are there 23 better CBs than Harris (including Bradley Roby who is due to make $1.2million more than Harris in 2019). The benefits of getting Callahan and Jackson will be wasted if Harris leaves. The man deserves to get paid and Elway should pay him and let him retire a Bronco.

On top of that - If Elway accepted anything less than a 1st rounder plus for Harris the guy should be shot - the Broncos would get a 3rd in compo for him if he left as an FA next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

The timing of this tells me he wants out of Denver. Asking for an amount you know they aren't going to pay a 30 year old, and then demanding a trade right before the draft (his best chance to get traded) says all it needs to. Thank you for your services CHJ; best of luck to you. 

Good post. Occams Razor put to good use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

The timing is all on Elway - his presser basically lit the match and poured gasoline on the situation.   When Elway's handled Q's on contract extensions, even for guys where they didn't get it done, Elway always said "we'll tackle it after the draft, we hope we can get it done, we love player X".   He went out of his way to say that the extension wasn't a lock at all, but they'd talk.   After shelling out 33M/3 years and 23M guaranteed to a 30 year-old Kareem Jackson.    Harris didn't make any noise, and played it silent until Elway chose to make the issue public from his end - this wasn't Harris coming out to Elway beforehand, this was Harris responding to Elway's firing shots across his bow.

I say all the above as a guy who thinks we are way better off cutting ties now, given our roster and cap situation, and the contract demands - but I can't put the timing on Harris at all.  This was Elway hubris at his finest yesterday.  There was really no reason to pull that card yesterday, but he went that route.  I don't blame Elway or DEN for deciding 15M AAV isn't a good investment at 30 even for a star like Harris, but he owns the timing of yesterday's events.

But that's the thing: Elway ALWAYS handles those questions with the generic, politically correct answer. The fact that he specifically chose not to for the first time ever tells me that Chris Harris is causing problems. Maybe not publicly, but behind the scenes there's a serious issue there. Harris wants out of Denver; prob has for a while, and this is his chance to force Elway's hand. 

Edited by 1234567
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

But that's the thing: Elway ALWAYS handles those questions with the generic, politically correct answer. The fact that he specifically chose not too for the first time ever tells me that Chris Harris is causing problems. Maybe not publicly, but behind the scenes there's a serious issue there. Harris wants out of Denver; prob has for a while, and this is his chance to force Elway's hand. 

Elway was the one who decided to make this a public issue.  That's on him.  All the other negotiations have always happened behind closed doors, even those that failed never went public before.   Elway was the one who decided to go that route, not Harris.  

Harris' history with DEN has never shown a problem.  He took a hometown discount to keep DEN competing for a title.   He's been nothing but a leader the whole time.   Time and again, when asked on multiple occasions this offseason - Harris always took the high road.  He never made this public.   Elway chose to make this a public issue.   Painting Harris as the problem child ignores this very simple fact.  Elway may have thought Harris wasn't being reasonable - but making this public, it's easy to see why Harris' agent decided to proceed with the only real leverage Harris has.  Harris can't hold out - he has to report by early August or the service time clock doesn't roll over, and DEN owns his 8.8M rights for 2020.   

Remember, Elway chose to pay 30 year old Kareem Jackson 3 years / 33M with 23M guaranteed.  And then telling an All-Pro not-yet 30 year old Harris publicly "we'll get to it later, but no promises, it's very possible we can't get a deal done" - before they even opened talks again.   And again, Elway chose to do it publicly.    It would be different if this was a player who was known to be a hothead, or edgy.  But this is Chris Harris.

Here's the thing - if we extend Harris, suddenly everyone will be like "hey, it's all good".  There won't be whispers that Harris secretly wants out, and is now the problem. But because there's a good possibility Harris will be gone, it's way easier to paint Harris as the bad guy.  That's human nature.  But we know Harris isn't a bad guy.  His demands may not be ones we should match - but this is his last big payday coming up at age 30.   

None of the above makes Elway wrong to refuse Harris' demands. I support that 100 percent.   It's bad business. But I understand Harris for taking this stance after Elway decided he wanted to make this public. 

 

Edited by Broncofan
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Elway was the one who decided to make this a public issue.  That's on him.  All the other negotiations have always happened behind closed doors, even those that failed never went public before.   Elway was the one who decided to go that route, not Harris.  

Harris' history with DEN has never shown a problem.  He took a hometown discount to keep DEN competing for a title.   He's been nothing but a leader the whole time.   Time and again, when asked on multiple occasions this offseason - Harris always took the high road.  He never made this public.   Elway chose to make this a public issue.   Painting Harris as the problem child ignores this very simple fact.  Elway may have thought Harris wasn't being reasonable - but making this public, it's easy to see why Harris' agent decided to proceed with the only real leverage Harris has.  Harris can't hold out - he has to report by early August or the service time clock doesn't roll over, and DEN owns his 8.8M rights for 2020.   

Remember, Elway chose to pay 30 year old Kareem Jackson 3 years / 33M with 23M guaranteed.  And then telling an All-Pro not-yet 30 year old Harris publicly "we'll get to it later, but no promises, it's very possible we can't get a deal done" - before they even opened talks again.   And again, Elway chose to do it publicly.    It would be different if this was a player who was known to be a hothead, or edgy.  But this is Chris Harris.

Here's the thing - if we extend Harris, suddenly everyone will be like "hey, it's all good".  There won't be whispers that Harris secretly wants out, and is now the problem. But because there's a good possibility Harris will be gone, it's way easier to paint Harris as the bad guy.  That's human nature.  But we know Harris isn't a bad guy.  His demands may not be ones we should match - but this is his last big payday coming up at age 30.   

None of the above makes Elway wrong to refuse Harris' demands. I support that 100 percent.   It's bad business. But I understand Harris for taking this stance after Elway decided he wanted to make this public. 

 

Eh, I wouldn't say I view Chris Harris a "bad guy" or something. But to me it's pretty clear he wants out of Denver, that's all. Agree with you on Jackson's contract. But Chris did this to himself. He's the one who chose to take a hometown discount in his prime; did he not think there would be consequences for that later down the road? It's not like he's asking for a slight bump, the contract he's asking for would make him the highest paid defensive back in the league. At 30. There's no way he actually believes that some team is gonna pay him that much. At least not on a long term deal. 

Edited by 1234567
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Eh, I wouldn't say I view Chris Harris a "bad guy" or something. But to me it's pretty clear he wants out of Denver, that's all. Agree with Jackson's contract. But Chris did this to himself. He's the one who chose to take a hometown discount in his prime; did he not think there would be consequences for that later down the road? It's not like he's asking for a slight bump, the contract he's asking for would make him the highest paid defensive back in the league. At 30. There's no way he actually believes that some team is gonna pay him that much. At least not on a long term deal. 

We're totally on the same page on the 15M AAV being unreasonable.   It's just that Elway owns all the leverage here with Harris under contract for 1 more year (as opposed to when the franchise tag gets applied, then players get more options to make it unpalatable, like Frank Clark did, as did Leveon Bell in PIT, as the most extreme example).  So by making it public, Elway forces Harris' camp to use the only leverage he has - and that's a trade demand.  As for the 15M AAV, that's the pitfall of public negotiations - you don't start with your worst-case-will-accept-this offer if the battle's going to be public.    This is why this stuff stays private - and even when negotiations fail, Elway's abided by this.  The fallout when you make negotiations public, it's unreasonable to expect Elway only gets to say what's on his mind, especially when he's the guy with the leverage.  

I get you don't see Harris as a bad guy.  All good there.  I just don't get the characterizations on Harris where we know nothing of what's happened behind closed doors.  We do know Elway chose to make this a public PR issue, and chose to do it 2 days before the draft.  But now Harris is being painted as the guy forcing the issue.  Elway sticks to the usual MO, this doesn't even come up until weeks from now.  And Harris had plenty of chances to make noise before yesterday, he got asked about not reporting to OTA's each day he was gone, and kept quiet each time.   The simple conclusion is Elway doesn't choose to make this public,  we don't get the public fallout now.  That's totally on Elway IMO.

Edited by Broncofan
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

What exactly did Elway say and in what context? I'd listen to the presser if my download speeds weren't so slow.

Quote

“I don’t have time right now,” he said. “We’re busy with the draft and we’ll talk about Chris — he’s under contract, so we’ll talk about that when the draft’s over. When I say this, I said we’re going to talk about it. It doesn’t mean we’re going to do it.”

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Elway should have commented on Chris' situation with more respect towards Chris and what he has done for the franchise. But Elway is an arrogant, flippant bleep so of course he couldn't bring himself to do that.

The other part was when you saw the interview on TV/video it was pretty clear Elway was sending Harris' camp a message - all of the reporters who were present commented on this immediately after, even before Harris' camp then made the extension/trade request public.  

The problem with a public message - you're now likely going to get a public reply, especially if the other side doesn't have much leverage.   It's why Elway never chose to go public with other players he probably didn't even seriously consider extending (like TJ Ward, CJ Anderson) about acknowledging deals may not get done as his first public position. 

Again, I'm one of those fans who thinks Elway's correct in passing on an extension even at 13M AAV, let alone 15M AAV, and we're better off building for the future - it's bad roster management to spend on a 3rd contract at top of market rates for 30+ year olds when we aren't realistic contenders.  But Elway's the guy responsible for this escalating 2 days pre-draft - he sticks to the usual MO about doing it later and certainly hoping we keep player X (something he's said literally every other time this has come up), it's a non-issue now - later, for sure, but not now.

Edited by Broncofan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, lets see if I've got this right.

At a pre draft presser someone asks if Elways going to extend Harris. Elway basically blows him off, says we'll talk about it after the draft, then moves on. Then Harris fires off a tweet demanding $15 mil per year or a trade, all of this while he's under contract through this year and next March will become an UFA, just like about 20 other Bronco's including Wolfe, Gotsis, Simmons, Sanders, the other Harris.............................................

Am I missing something?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, AKRNA said:

So, lets see if I've got this right.

At a pre draft presser someone asks if Elways going to extend Harris. Elway basically blows him off, says we'll talk about it after the draft, then moves on. Then Harris fires off a tweet demanding $15 mil per year or a trade, all of this while he's under contract through this year and next March will become an UFA, just like about 20 other Bronco's including Wolfe, Gotsis, Simmons, Sanders, the other Harris.............................................

Am I missing something?

Yes you are - he didn't move on - he specifically came back and said 'I just want to say something - when I say we are going to talk about it - it doesn't mean we are going to do anything'.

Elway didn't even give a commitment to talk to Harris - he only said that Broncos FO would talk about it - and they might not do anything about an extension for Harris.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, AKRNA said:

So, lets see if I've got this right.

At a pre draft presser someone asks if Elways going to extend Harris. Elway basically blows him off, says we'll talk about it after the draft, then moves on. Then Harris fires off a tweet demanding $15 mil per year or a trade, all of this while he's under contract through this year and next March will become an UFA, just like about 20 other Bronco's including Wolfe, Gotsis, Simmons, Sanders, the other Harris.............................................

Am I missing something?

I don't think Chris needs to be loyal to the franchise if they won't be loyal to him. He has a right to play somewhere that wants to pay him what he is worth and that will give him an extension. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, jolly red giant said:

Yes you are - he didn't move on - he specifically came back and said 'I just want to say something - when I say we are going to talk about it - it doesn't mean we are going to do anything'.

Elway didn't even give a commitment to talk to Harris - he only said that Broncos FO would talk about it - and they might not do anything about an extension for Harris.

Watching the actual interview, the transcript doesn't do the convo.  As you pointed out, Elway went out of his way to make that comment, he came back to add that piece.  And again, he never did that with guys who he didn't re-sign, either, like TJ Ward or CJ Anderson, when it was pretty clear it was an iffy prop (and likely he had zero intention to extend them).  I don't have a problem with Elway deciding to move on.... but he chose to light the fire to make this a public issue now, and not later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...