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Its A Sabotage

2018 draft thread - still sucking a decade later

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22 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

We have a solid amount of talent imo, the problem is the places you need it the most we don't. Edge (Yan is awesome, but he isn't a premier pass rusher, he's a good #2 guy), FS (TBD on Gip, but I'm not holding my breath), QB (enough said).

We have two corners who realistically are top 5 corners in the NFL (one played to it last year, the other was knocking on the door of that in his rookie season with a poor pass rush). They have two premier interior OL that are close to allpro level guys in Campbell/Malik, Yan set our franchise rookie record in sacks and looks like a potential 8-12 sack a year guy, Abry is tbd yet but when Big Roy went down early last year the rest of that season he played like an above average 1T and surely isn't a finished product. Telvin is one of the better WLB's in the league. Jack/Fowler are tbd guys (feel much better about Jack), but as far as pure talent goes they both have upside to be good players, Fowler it looks like needs certain scheme/fit to unlock his skills which we for some reason aren't doing and forcing him to line up at DE which obviously hasn't worked.

Offensively, we just drafted a RB that most see as one of those "special, once every few years" type backs in Fournette. Cam Robinson is also an absolute freak but clearly has the talent if we can coach him up. Linder is a very good center. You seem pretty low on Hurns, but our set of WR's in ARob/Hurns/Lee/Dede boast big upside but it's hard to see it when Bortles is throwing wobbly ducks/10 years behind them.

Lot of guys are just too young to know for sure, but as far as pure talent goes there's plenty of it on the roster imo. Just depends if we can get the most out of it...and it's hard when the spots that are most important still are needs because of past misses on the positions (Bortles, Fowler (most likely), Gip, Joeckel, etc.).

I don't really disagree that we're missing talent at the most important spots.  Though i'd argue OL is a far bigger problem than FS.  I don't have any problem with Gipson.  Looking around, he's quite easily the best FS in our entire division and hasn't really be "bad", so much as just outside of a scheme where he can excel.  The OLine lacks talent though, which is a major problem that's showing through now.

 

But then...how can you look at the poorly constructed roster missing talent at key positions that hamstring the teams ability to win games, and not think the architects of that ought to be fired.  In which case...what sort of highly sought after replacement GM do you think is going to come in here if you start putting stipulations like, "can't fire Marrone because it's only been a year" on the hire?  Especially when he's as much of a lame duck as he already is...with part of a year already in the bank, and what's "hypothetically" another loser season to his name?  Which is back to what @iPwn was saying earlier.  You can't keep a coach like Marrone and expect to fix this.  Ergo, i don't want to see them keep Marrone unless he pulls a freaking rabbit out of his hat with a season that looks respectable somehow.

Might all be a moot point anyway if they insist on Coughlin still looking over anyone's shoulder.  That might scare off any promising GM candidates with real vision for the team anyway.  But i just can't be okay with the idea of not firing Marrone if we get another bad, losing season as it looks we're headed towards.  We as fans don't owe him squat.

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im not reading these half pager books so ill put it like this ---- we've have the same needs we've had since dave took over --qb rb ol edge secondary --- you have an ol coach promoted from within and the ol is still one of the worst in the league --- you can't have either sticking around and an 80 year old tom c isn't fixing this team. shad has  to take an actual reflective look at this team and see all of these half measures in not fully pulling band aids off isnt and hasn't worked. we kept gene smith and fired del rio bringing in mularkey -- fired mularkey  - dave - dave and gus and now dave and marrone. you need to fire everyone and start over and with a fan base already tired of losing, see the home shots of the crowd and needing the london game to turn any profit on the season.

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This team needs to use Coughlin intelligently. He’s very old. He started losing it as a coach, and the game started to pass him by. But he understands the nuance of team building. That’s what he has to be here for.

No one on this staff understands that aspect. You have to set forth a vision for a team, and then you have to execute against that vision. No one here has done that since Shack Harris. If you want a smash mouth offense, you can’t get rid of the full back and put a TE who can’t/won’t block as your top guy. If you understand that pressure comes from both sides of an OL, you can’t just put a space heater at 5T. 

Shad gets it on the business end. You want to draw excitement in the fan base. You want to make Everbank an attraction for everyone. So what do you do? You want players to be excited about being here. You build the video boards, the pools, you try to get the ship yards fixed. You put in a state of the art locker room and weight room. You make the best practice facility on the planet to get guys out of the hot August sun. Literally everything that Shad has done on the business side has been to work towards that vision of making Jacksonville a destination. Everything you do needs to be measured against that vision goal. Does this make EverBank the place to be for fans and players? If it doesn’t, then why are we considering doing it?

Coughlin’s role needs to be just that. Shad doesn’t know how to build a football team. He needs someone to create the vision of what’s wanted, and then to make sure that we are testing each and every decision against that vision, and create accountability for all those decisions. If you want a ball control offense, you don’t stick with a gunslinger QB. If you want a smash mouth offense, you don’t remove the FB.

Coughlin should have the final say on all decisions, but it shouldn’t be “we’re picking this player because I like him” it should be “you’re not picking that player unless you know he fits this vision. And if he doesn’t, you answer to me when it doesn’t work.”

 

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5 hours ago, iPwn said:

This team needs to use Coughlin intelligently. He’s very old. He started losing it as a coach, and the game started to pass him by. But he understands the nuance of team building. That’s what he has to be here for.

No one on this staff understands that aspect. You have to set forth a vision for a team, and then you have to execute against that vision. No one here has done that since Shack Harris. If you want a smash mouth offense, you can’t get rid of the full back and put a TE who can’t/won’t block as your top guy. If you understand that pressure comes from both sides of an OL, you can’t just put a space heater at 5T. 

Shad gets it on the business end. You want to draw excitement in the fan base. You want to make Everbank an attraction for everyone. So what do you do? You want players to be excited about being here. You build the video boards, the pools, you try to get the ship yards fixed. You put in a state of the art locker room and weight room. You make the best practice facility on the planet to get guys out of the hot August sun. Literally everything that Shad has done on the business side has been to work towards that vision of making Jacksonville a destination. Everything you do needs to be measured against that vision goal. Does this make EverBank the place to be for fans and players? If it doesn’t, then why are we considering doing it?

Coughlin’s role needs to be just that. Shad doesn’t know how to build a football team. He needs someone to create the vision of what’s wanted, and then to make sure that we are testing each and every decision against that vision, and create accountability for all those decisions. If you want a ball control offense, you don’t stick with a gunslinger QB. If you want a smash mouth offense, you don’t remove the FB.

Coughlin should have the final say on all decisions, but it shouldn’t be “we’re picking this player because I like him” it should be “you’re not picking that player unless you know he fits this vision. And if he doesn’t, you answer to me when it doesn’t work.”

 

Can Coughlin actually step back and do that though?  Everything i know about Tom Coughlin suggests that he's going to be reticent about giving up any direct control over anything...and his vision for a team at basically a GM/Coach level where he's experienced and comfortable.  And in light of that, it's a tough question to ask...but i think you do have to ask if perhaps the game has indeed passed old Tom by.

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4 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

Can Coughlin actually step back and do that though?  Everything i know about Tom Coughlin suggests that he's going to be reticent about giving up any direct control over anything...and his vision for a team at basically a GM/Coach level where he's experienced and comfortable.  And in light of that, it's a tough question to ask...but i think you do have to ask if perhaps the game has indeed passed old Tom by.

Tom gave up a lot of control when he went to the Giants. Specifically asked that he have someone to do certain things for him, as long as they ultimately work under his direction like I said. If he can do that again, it’s in the best interest of the team.

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Did a mock on fanspeak with draft utopias big board

 

4: R1P4
 
OT CONNOR WILLIAMS
TEXAS
36: R2P4
 
QB MASON RUDOLPH
OKLAHOMA STATE
68: R3P4
 
LB MARQUIS HAYNES
OLE MISS he would be an undersized passrusher
106: R4P4
 
C BILLY PRICE
OHIO STATE hes a guard
142: R5P4
 
LB DANTE BOOKER
OHIO STATE wlb
183: R6P4
 
TE DEANDRE GOOLSBY
FLORIDA
233: R7P11
 
K EDDY PINEIRO
FLORIDA cuz f myers

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Josh Allen having a very rough game against Iowa.

Edited by .Buzz

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9 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Josh Allen having a very rough game against Iowa.

Just saw some highlights...or uh...lowlights i guess, but yeah...I think he can be really entertaining, but he's got so many of the same flaws as Blake, without the same size.  Bigger arm, but not really digging him as a guy to actually invest the future in again.  Been there, done that with reckless low percentage trust their arm way too much QB i think.

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4 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

Just saw some highlights...or uh...lowlights i guess, but yeah...I think he can be really entertaining, but he's got so many of the same flaws as Blake, without the same size.  Bigger arm, but not really digging him as a guy to actually invest the future in again.  Been there, done that with reckless low percentage trust their arm way too much QB i think.

Yeah, I mean guys have bad games but there are some similarities. Not sure we take another guy with Blakes skillset. Hearing all these Big Ben comps for Allen and I just get all sad again...

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5 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Yeah, I mean guys have bad games but there are some similarities. Not sure we take another guy with Blakes skillset. Hearing all these Big Ben comps for Allen and I just get all sad again...

It's still just the first game of the season, and it looks like he had a lot more of what he had last year (drops, porous OLine, etc.)...but yeah, it's hard to see us investing again in a guy with those sort of flags.  Low completion%, "needs improvement" decisionmaking, overconfidence in arm.

More likely i see the pendulum swinging well back the other way for whoever our next top QB pick ends up being.

It's where i'm intent on keeping a pretty close eye on Luke Falk this year.  He's very much the opposite end of the spectrum.  Doesn't have any of the same flash and dazzle or raw physical ability...and the numbers are obviously inflated a bit by the system, but he just operates at such a high level of efficiency.  Consistently distributes the ball in smart places and just executes.  Like...he completed 15% more of his passes than Allen last year.  That's...significant, even considering the various extenuating factors imo.  Especially when you really watch and see the placement is usually pretty on the money in the short/intermediate game where ball possession offenses bread is buttered.

 

I'd imagine some of this will depend on just how involved and/or fired/not fired Caldwell is at the draft next year.  He seems to be very into a certain "type".  But a new guy may have a very different profile they favour.  Plus, if Marrone is there and has any say, or if Coughlin is hogging the wheel that will obviously influence things.

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its almost like with allen you need to be more than tall white and have a strong arm but no one saw this coming from a player who had one other game against a power 5 team and threw 5 picks and ended the season with a sub 60% comp%

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1 hour ago, Its A Sabotage said:

its almost like with allen you need to be more than tall white and have a strong arm but no one saw this coming from a player who had one other game against a power 5 team and threw 5 picks and ended the season with a sub 60% comp%

Yeah I don't understand, I watched some Allen tape last year and he didn't look very good?? 

where did the hype come from?

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1 minute ago, Jaguarfan said:

Yeah I don't understand, I watched some Allen tape last year and he didn't look very good?? 

where did the hype come from?

matt miller of br

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