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2018 draft thread - still sucking a decade later


Its A Sabotage

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4 hours ago, Tugboat said:

I'm gonna have to take a hard pass on Mason Rudolph.

He may pile up some gaudy stats this year, but he's most of the things there are not to like in an air raid type QB prospect i think.  Don't really like his pocket presence, the constant "chuck it downfield and let your athletically superior receivers make a play on it" schtick doesn't translate for me, and in the short/intermediate game...his ball placement and timing is really not impressive either.  Gets away with a lot.

its better to take him say round 2 or 3 then use a top 10 pick on Lamar. 

i havent watched him yet but Fitzgerald looks like a potential dual threat that has some weight(hes like 225ish)

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1 hour ago, LinderFournette said:

its better to take him say round 2 or 3 then use a top 10 pick on Lamar. 

i havent watched him yet but Fitzgerald looks like a potential dual threat that has some weight(hes like 225ish)

False dilemma.  They don't have to do either of those things.  And at the end of the day, a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a bad QB is still a bad pick.  I just don't see it with Rudolph.  Maybe in part just bad memories from his earlier career...but i just haven't seen a quality Pro starting quarterback prospect there.  It's a long year still to see what guys can do, but that's one i'm skeptical i'll feel a big 180 on.

As far as the whole dual threat QB thing goes...Fitzgerald is a bit bigger, and from what i saw last year, maybe there's something to work with there as a project, but it'll be a big project.  If he even comes out.  And at that point it begs the question...why not just sign Kaepernick, who looks like pretty much what you'd realistically hope Fitzgerald eventually polishes into?  

If it's going to be a "dual threat" guy they roll the dice on...gimme the guy who is the better passer every day.  At least there's something to go on there.  That's Lamar Jackson from everything i've seen, as much as i'm not really sold on him as a Top-10 sort of pick.  Though quite frankly, as long as Coughlin is here in a prominent role...i wouldn't wager too heavily on a dual threat/running QB type being where this team hitches its wagon this time around anyway.

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Just now, Tugboat said:

False dilemma.  They don't have to do either of those things.  And at the end of the day, a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a bad QB is still a bad pick.  I just don't see it with Rudolph.  Maybe in part just bad memories from his earlier career...but i just haven't seen a quality Pro starting quarterback prospect there.  It's a long year still to see what guys can do, but that's one i'm skeptical i'll feel a big 180 on.

As far as the whole dual threat QB thing goes...Fitzgerald is a bit bigger, and from what i saw last year, maybe there's something to work with there as a project, but it'll be a big project.  If he even comes out.  And at that point it begs the question...why not just sign Kaepernick, who looks like pretty much what you'd realistically hope Fitzgerald eventually polishes into?  

If it's going to be a "dual threat" guy they roll the dice on...gimme the guy who is the better passer every day.  At least there's something to go on there.  That's Lamar Jackson from everything i've seen, as much as i'm not really sold on him as a Top-10 sort of pick.  Though quite frankly, as long as Coughlin is here in a prominent role...i wouldn't wager too heavily on a dual threat/running QB type being where this team hitches its wagon this time around anyway.

he did pick Garrard tho in the draft #imJustSaying.

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Just now, Its A Sabotage said:

why don't you think lamar is a top-x pick hes the best qb in the upcoming draft has everything but height and complexion don't over think it

Cuz he reminds me of RG3. everyone likes him cuz of his dual ability but i see a smaller QB whos Game is Based off his athleticism and when he loses that athleticism wether that be from a significant knee injury or just aging.  Yes we need a solution at QB but we dont need to Put said new QB into a situation he will Fail Like we did with Gabbert and Bortles. we need to Get the Oline done first and For most so we can improve as a Team. Better Oline play will lead to a better Run Game which will allow us to just need a game managing QB.  worse case if the 2nd or 3rd round qb bust you still got next year potentially to find the guy you want.  

i know mayfield aint the biggest, fastest, strongest armed guy out there but he reminds me of a cross of Manziel and Colt McCoy and i think a colt McCoy would work well in this run-heavy offense Doug wants to use. 

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21 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

Cuz he reminds me of RG3. everyone likes him cuz of his dual ability but i see a smaller QB whos Game is Based off his athleticism and when he loses that athleticism wether that be from a significant knee injury or just aging.  Yes we need a solution at QB but we dont need to Put said new QB into a situation he will Fail Like we did with Gabbert and Bortles. we need to Get the Oline done first and For most so we can improve as a Team. Better Oline play will lead to a better Run Game which will allow us to just need a game managing QB.  worse case if the 2nd or 3rd round qb bust you still got next year potentially to find the guy you want.  

i know mayfield aint the biggest, fastest, strongest armed guy out there but he reminds me of a cross of Manziel and Colt McCoy and i think a colt McCoy would work well in this run-heavy offense Doug wants to use. 

RGIII was amazing until Shanny ran him into the ground...not sure if that's the guy you want to compare him to in a bad way.

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1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

RGIII was amazing until Shanny ran him into the ground...not sure if that's the guy you want to compare him to in a bad way.

he was Done the moment he blew his ACL during his Rookie year in the Playoffs.  

ya RG3 had a great Rookie year then Fell on his face.   i suspect the same would happen to Lamar behind this crew of Craptastic Linemen we employ.

look at rg3s stats. he had 2 years of Solid Completion percentage(65 is good). he has 1 year of a good TD to INT ratio(anything lower then 2TD-1INT is crap).  then u look at His Fumbles(36 in 42 games isnt Good at all.  

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2 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

he was Done the moment he blew his ACL during his Rookie year in the Playoffs.  

ya RG3 had a great Rookie year then Fell on his face.   i suspect the same would happen to Lamar behind this crew of Craptastic Linemen we employ.

look at rg3s stats. he had 2 years of Solid Completion percentage(65 is good). he has 1 year of a good TD to INT ratio(anything lower then 2TD-1INT is crap).  then u look at His Fumbles(36 in 42 games isnt Good at all.  

He blew his knee and they kept playing him making it worse, followed by losing all his confidence.

He had one of the best rookie seasons ever. It had nothing to do with talent. If you want to pass just because he could get hurt then I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I'd take an RG3 type prospect in a heartbeat if thats who you have for a comparison. I don't even have to think about it.

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1 hour ago, LinderFournette said:

he did pick Garrard tho in the draft #imJustSaying.

True.  Though that was a mid-round flyer...on his way out the door basically.  Plus, never saw Garrard as a real "running QB" anyway though.  He used his legs a lot - often by necessity, but he was really just a game manager with mobility.  I mean, he had like 200 rushing yards in his draft year.  That's a far cry from the running QB/dual threat types flying up around 1000 yards or whatever.

A true dual-threat guy just doesn't seem like the Tom Coughlin profile to me.  But who knows.  Also depends who is running the draft room for us, whether Coughlin is even relevant.

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1 hour ago, Its A Sabotage said:

why don't you think lamar is a top-x pick hes the best qb in the upcoming draft has everything but height and complexion don't over think it

What's wrong with Jackson's height?  He seems plenty tall to me.  It's the build/frame that are a potential issue.  Especially given his style of play, and how much running the football is a part of his game.

 

55 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

RGIII was amazing until Shanny ran him into the ground...not sure if that's the guy you want to compare him to in a bad way.

38 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

He blew his knee and they kept playing him making it worse, followed by losing all his confidence.

He had one of the best rookie seasons ever. It had nothing to do with talent. If you want to pass just because he could get hurt then I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I'd take an RG3 type prospect in a heartbeat if thats who you have for a comparison. I don't even have to think about it.

Eh...he had a great rookie year.  Not much after that.  He was part of that whole "Read Option takes the NFL by Storm!!!" wave of initial success.  It was the talk of the town and a lot of teams seemed to be put a bit off balance by it.  This place was flooded with threads about how this is the future of the NFL and yadda yadda, etc.  xD  But it wore off.  It's the guys like Russell Wilson who can do it from the pocket and use their mobility less as a weapon and more as a means of extending plays for their arm and keeping defenses honest who have staying power.  Scramblers vs Runners.

With guys like Wilson and Rodgers, you can take away their mobility watching them literally hobble around on one leg, and they can still get it done.  That's the question that has to be asked of Lamar Jackson imo.  And it's a tough one to ask when he's in an offense that's going to continue to expand on that attribute of his game.  If you take away the 1000 rushing yards a year, what's left?  That's a big element to take away.  You're calling it "Shanny ran him into the ground"...i'd call it exposing a franchise to risk by making use of one of a QBs biggest assets.

I'm just not very big on the idea of drafting a 1000 yard rushing QB at the very top of the draft and the proceeding to go, "heck yeah, let's rush him for a thousand in the NFL too!!!"  That's a virtual certainty you're going to get your guy killed dead at some point.  So you take that element away and massage their game into more of a "pocket passer" and:

1)You've just negated a significant part of what might make a guy like Jackson a unique "premium" prospect.  

2)Can he still do what he does from the pocket (which can actually be pretty darn good when he gets on a roll), if you take away that all important threat of the run?  Defenses play a QB differently when there's a credible threat he might take off and run every play to the tune of a thousand yards.

3)You're venturing into the same sort of territory as drafting a Bortles and thinking you can significantly change who they are as a QB.  Some guys can change, some guys can't.  They need those runs to get into their groove or whatever.  That's an unknown i don't like.

 

Ultimately, if you'd take an RGIII prospect at that sort of premium in a heartbeat, it probably is just irreconcilable philosophical differences.  Frankly, i see one real Dual Threat/Running QB in the NFL in recent years that i'd call an established franchise guy with any sustainability.  His name is Cam Newton and he's a behemoth of a man.  You can say Jackson is what Mike Vick was supposed to be...but then, Mike Vick was also supposed to be what Mike Vick was supposed to be.  :S  It's just not the sort of QB i'm entirely keen on investing big in.  It's tough, because watching Jackson in college is a heckuva fun time, and he does go on runs as a quality passer of the football.  It's just...i'm not sold on that at all.

 

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9 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

Cuz he reminds me of RG3. everyone likes him cuz of his dual ability but i see a smaller QB whos Game is Based off his athleticism and when he loses that athleticism wether that be from a significant knee injury or just aging.  Yes we need a solution at QB but we dont need to Put said new QB into a situation he will Fail Like we did with Gabbert and Bortles. we need to Get the Oline done first and For most so we can improve as a Team. Better Oline play will lead to a better Run Game which will allow us to just need a game managing QB.  worse case if the 2nd or 3rd round qb bust you still got next year potentially to find the guy you want.  

i know mayfield aint the biggest, fastest, strongest armed guy out there but he reminds me of a cross of Manziel and Colt McCoy and i think a colt McCoy would work well in this run-heavy offense Doug wants to use. 

so youd rather take an undrafted guy in mayfield over lamar because rg3 had a knee injury and career ended by a dumb coach playing him on a bad field after already hurt? get out of here

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I know QB is the real talk right about now, but Derwin James is looking good (with a few flaws). Outside of 2 bad tackle attempts, he looked good. Flying around the field and lining up just about everywhere. He is fast!
 

 

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