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2019 Saints Secondary and Forward

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1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

Flimsy...okay.
How about this, if the guy can't perform for us, I'm glad he's gone, period. Better?

Yeah that’s fine. But it’s not what you said the first time an this is why a discussion happened about it. This happens a lot with us, I make a comment about your comment, then you change the entire argument lol I was arguing with one thing you said, not that we needed Vaccaro 

1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

I'm not sure what you're after, here. You'll win the argument, no doubt. And that argument is that you want an cheaper bad player rather than a higher dollar bad player, apparently.

That’s not really my argument whatsoever, but it is true. You definitely want the cheaper of the two if they’re similar players, and you definitely don’t want the guy that’s overpaid. For what Vaccaro is making he’s underpaid based on how he’s playing, and Coleman is on the opposite end of the spectrum there.

1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

We've already gone rounds about most of us saying we need better secondary coaching. We've been saying it for years now. We've also been saying Kenny V is a hit or miss player.

So what's your point?

My point is just because you haven’t heard much talk about a player doesn’t mean he’s bad, and it definitely doesn’t “say enough” like you were suggesting. It actually says nothing.

My point was also that this is a reoccurring theme with this staff, which you already said we’ve all been talking about, so I’m not sure why me making the point is so bothersome, unless it’s just about me. :D

Edited by Dome

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1 hour ago, Dome said:

I’m not sure why me making the point is so bothersome, unless it’s just about me. :D

Probably this.

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1 hour ago, Dome said:

This happens a lot with us, I make a comment about your comment, then you change the entire argument lol I was arguing with one thing you said, not that we needed Vaccaro 

Here's the deal, Dome. I made a comment that I feel is fairly accurate, for one reason or another. YOU responded with disagreement (which is fine) to which I said nothing. Then you pull it up again, quote the same line, and twist harder (your "flimsy" comment). Apparently I didn't word something to your approval, and you were soliciting a response due to my lack of response earlier, I suppose. Perhaps next time I'll need to type a long paragraph to fully explain the reasoning behind my short sentence.

So, if you want to pin the "unless it's just about me" stuff on me, whatever. But perhaps you can look into this a bit further and reflect.

Kenny V was crap with us, and the lack of comments about him since his departure is, as I said, enough for me to know we made the right move. Much like I supported the quest for Eli Apple who wasn't playing worth a crap in New York, and was apparently a locker room cancer for them. In New Orleans, no problems.

So if you're looking to "one up" me, or "win" an argument that is my opinion, have at it champ. You win, and you're up.

Our opinions clearly vary. I'll leave it at that.

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7 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

Here's the deal, Dome. I made a comment that I feel is fairly accurate, for one reason or another. YOU responded with disagreement (which is fine) to which I said nothing. Then you pull it up again, quote the same line, and twist harder (your "flimsy" comment). Apparently I didn't word something to your approval, and you were soliciting a response due to my lack of response earlier, I suppose. Perhaps next time I'll need to type a long paragraph to fully explain the reasoning behind my short sentence.

I wasn’t replying to you the second time, just using your quote when replying to another poster. I referenced something you said earlier to give context to my post later, but it wasn’t meant to be a continued argument with you. That wasn’t my intention.

7 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

Kenny V was crap with us, and the lack of comments about him since his departure is, as I said, enough for me to know we made the right move. Much like I supported the quest for Eli Apple who wasn't playing worth a crap in New York, and was apparently a locker room cancer for them. In New Orleans, no problems.

Maybe we made the right move with Vaccaro at first, but then we overpaid Coleman and realized there was 0 market for Kenny.

Based on how they’ve played this year, I’d take Vaccaro on his 1-year, $1.5m deal over Coleman on the same deal. Wouldn’t you? 

Not that it matters, because as we know Coleman doesn’t make $1.5m per year, it’s actually a lot more. Coleman is overpaid, so if you want to say Kenny didn’t deserve to get paid by us, in that same strand I think you have no choice but to criticize the Coleman signing as well. 

7 hours ago, Mid Iowa said:

So, if you want to pin the "unless it's just about me" stuff on me, whatever. But perhaps you can look into this a bit further and reflect.

 

So if you're looking to "one up" me, or "win" an argument that is my opinion, have at it champ. You win, and you're up.

Our opinions clearly vary. I'll leave it at that.

Yes, I am trying to prove my point, that’s the entire reason people come here. They talk football and want to push their takes.

On three or four occasions, you’ve suggested my arguments with you are about you rather than whatever it is we’re debating. Its not. 

I’m here to discuss football, if I disagree with something you say I’m going to say I disagree and explain why because that’s what the forum is for. It has nothing to do with you personally, half the time I hit quote and I don’t even know who I’m quoting. I disagree with people while discussing football sometimes, it’s not an attack you or others when this happens. Though, so far you’re the only one who believes it is personal, I hope to change that.

And I’ll leave it at that as well. 

Edited by Dome

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18 hours ago, Dome said:

Yes, I am trying to prove my point, that’s the entire reason people come here. They talk football and want to push their takes.

On three or four occasions, you’ve suggested my arguments with you are about you rather than whatever it is we’re debating. Its not. 

I’m here to discuss football, if I disagree with something you say I’m going to say I disagree and explain why because that’s what the forum is for. It has nothing to do with you personally, half the time I hit quote and I don’t even know who I’m quoting. I disagree with people while discussing football sometimes, it’s not an attack you or others when this happens. Though, so far you’re the only one who believes it is personal, I hope to change that.

I originally came to the message boards through NFL.com's rumor mill and eventually signed up on the CBS sports forum which eventually shut down/changed and I ended up at the earlier version of this site. I did so to harvest information and learn more about the Saints (specifically) and what was going on around the league, to "prove a point" or "push my take". I'm not a coach or employee of a football team, I don't need either of those, but somehow that's where we've come in here.

Regardless of your intention, which none of us know via typing, when you quote anything that anyone says, and then use derogatory words to describe one's opinion, how is that not to be taken personal? I guess I'm not sure.

So I think I'll bow out of the forums. It's become more about bitching than the inside info some folks used to bring.

Merry Christmas, and WhoDat!

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1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

Regardless of your intention, which none of us know via typing,

It’s a football forum. It’s a pretty safe guess to assume my intention is to discuss football. Any other conclusion about what my intentions are when I post is simply you reading too far into a disagreement about football.

I’ve discussed and debated football with hundreds, if not thousands of people in my near decade as a poster here on Footballs Future. In that time, the only person who has thought I have some personal vendetta against them is you.

1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

and then use derogatory words to describe one's opinion, how is that not to be taken personal? I guess I'm not sure.

I called an argument that I felt was a poor argument a “flimsy” argument. 

Is this the derogatory word you’re referring to? “Flimsy” is the offending word?  I’m not sure what else there was that could’ve possibly been so upsetting. 

1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

So I think I'll bow out of the forums. It's become more about bitching than the inside info some folks used to bring.

Merry Christmas, and WhoDat!

Wow man. Maybe you do need a break from here. This is a very basic disagreement that happens in every subforum on this website, so if that’s too much for ya I can’t imahine things getting any better

Hope to see you around again if you work things out. 

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13 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

I read just enough of that argument to know I don't want to read any more.

Well here is the football discussion I was trying to have with mid, but it was all ignored multiple times -_-

Maybe somebody else wants to talk football?

On 12/21/2018 at 10:14 PM, Dome said:

 

IMO, it’s a flimsy statement and was unnecessarily dismissive given Kenny’s play this year. It’s not like we let him walk and he disappeared. He’s doing anything and everything Coleman does, but for TEN, and he would’ve been a lot cheaper too.

I’m not saying he’d be playing that well here, but obviously he’s capable of playing at a high level and the fact our coaching staff couldn’t get that out of him consistently is worth bringing up.

And IMO Coleman is still overpaid, even if he isn’t playing quite as horrible as he was to start the year. He’s played less than 25% of the snaps over the last 3 weeks, the only time he was playing a lot was after PRob went down and before Eli took a starting job 

 

22 hours ago, Dome said:

 

You definitely want the cheaper of the two if they’re similar players, and you definitely don’t want the guy that’s overpaid. For what Vaccaro is making he’s underpaid based on how he’s playing, and Coleman is on the opposite end of the spectrum there.

 

20 hours ago, Dome said:

Maybe we made the right move with Vaccaro at first, but then we overpaid Coleman and realized there was 0 market for Kenny.

Based on how they’ve played this year, I’d take Vaccaro on his 1-year, $1.5m deal over Coleman on the same deal. Wouldn’t you? 

Not that it matters, because as we know Coleman doesn’t make $1.5m per year, it’s actually a lot more. Coleman is overpaid, so if you want to say Kenny didn’t deserve to get paid by us, in that same strand I think you have no choice but to criticize the Coleman signing as well. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Dome said:

Well here is the football discussion I was trying to have with mid, but it was all ignored multiple times -_-

Maybe somebody else wants to talk football?

 

 

 

Considering what Coleman makes, yes I'd rather have Vacarro.  Even if they made the same I'd rather have Vacarro.  I don't know what we were doing with Coleman.

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The impact a guy can make on a locker room can't be understated. It's important too, it's not all about what happens on the field. Maybe Kenny was having arguments with the other guys and he didn't realize it was about football.

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42 minutes ago, NS922 said:

The impact a guy can make on a locker room can't be understated. It's important too, it's not all about what happens on the field. Maybe Kenny was having arguments with the other guys and he didn't realize it was about football.

Oh that for sure could’ve been part of it. Makes me wonder what the difference is with guys like that from one locker room to the next. Fitting in one place and being a problem/distraction at others.

 

I think even hit and miss inconsistent Vaccaro would be preferable to Coleman though, at least IMO. 

especially if it was just one more year from KV until we could get his real replacement and not a stopgap. Are we stuck with KC next year too? Like for sure?

Edited by Dome

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46 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

I don't know what we were doing with Coleman.

Same. That was one of the really rare signings where I didn’t give it ANY hope of working out. 

Even signings or draft picks I’m critical of I try to take a step back and look at what could go right. With KC I never saw anything like that lol 

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I'll do my best to play along nice with the others.

My argument may not necessarily go hand-in-hand with everyone's line of thinking, but here it is.

Kenny V. Was a lot of fun to see on the field in his first season, and a little bit of the second. Then his performance was horrible, usually. 

It's probably my bad for singling him out. We have seen so many other D-backs that have ended up the same way. Even Marshon Lattimore's performance has fallen off a bit this year oh, and I'm oddly, Eli Apple's performance is improving.

It doesn't seem to matter who we bring in to put in the secondary, the coaches back there seem to let things completely fall apart. 

if any of you get bored, go back and look at the statistics of the incoming and outgoing secondary players for the Saints. We get so many high performers that come in and wind up not producing worth a squat. And on the contrary, we jettison some really poor players who end up becoming rock stars on their new team. It becomes frustrating, especially when you have such a good front seven, or at least front four.

I truly hope the leadership will see this issue and address it appropriately. I'm sure the secondary coach is a super likeable guy, but I think I like championships more than personality and loyalty.

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1 hour ago, Mid Iowa said:

It doesn't seem to matter who we bring in to put in the secondary, the coaches back there seem to let things completely fall apart. 

Now this I 100% agree with

Lattimore’s development makes me nervous.

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