Random Raider Stuff

[drfrey13]

1 minute ago, Humble_Beast said:

I’m hoping the young guys emerge Cabinda, Coney, Lee of Morrow 

I think we are taking a risk on all 3 positions but I feel the most comfortable with getting production out of the LBers.  Kind of like RBs.  You can generally get some production from throwing guys out there if they are good system fits.

[Humble_Beast]

31 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I think we are taking a risk on all 3 positions but I feel the most comfortable with getting production out of the LBers.  Kind of like RBs.  You can generally get some production from throwing guys out there if they are good system fits.

That’s actually good young depth.. in the past we threw Malcolm smith, Ray Ray, Ben Henny as starters...  hoping one or two guys make a big jump out of the younger backup linebackers 

[NightTrainLane]

4 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I just think the prudent thing would have been to sign a known quantity to help the team.  If we were up against the cap then I understand having to take some risk with unknown players.  None of our TEs have the experience or production that warrants a starting position.  Now can they be that good? Yes, it is a possibility but it is not likely.  Cook could have easily been signed if it is about money and he was an amazing weapon last year.  If Gruden signed on to coach the Chiefs should he let Kelce walk since his system does not require a top TE?  Kelce is better than Cook but you do not let top talent walk when they can outproduce the contract they are looking for and especially if it is not a financial strain on the team.  Could have made Cook a priority before the free agency period and he would have signed.  He is on the record stating he wanted to come back.  Gruden says it is sickening to loss him and even called him the team MVP at one point.  If we had Jacobs, Cook, AB, and Williams I would feel much better and even put us top 10 in O weapons.  No way teams can shut down all four.  Much easier to shut down 3 though.  Waller/Moreau/Wilson will receive very little attention and should have good production if they are starting material.  AB/Williams/Cook could all have had 1000 yd seasons together and 100+ targets each.  Gruden's system spreads the ball around but our lack of talent and injuries caused us to spread it around to much.  550-600 pass attempts is a likely number for next year.  AB - 150, Cook - 100, Williams - 120, RBs - 100.  That leaves 80-130 targets for another 4-6 receivers.  That would be a good distribution.

Just like you and other's accuse Gruden of double speak, who is to say that Cook and his agents really wanted to come back even though he said it. We don't know the situation or the real negotiations. Cook essentially got a 1 year 8mil deal with the saints to chase a ring. He is 32 and wants to win now. That is the plan in Oakland but it's more likely in New Orleans. After this year if the Saints decide to blow it up and start a reboot then Cook can move on to chase a ring somewhere else or retire

From the Raiders side, when you have a young guy you have been preparing for the big stage for 2 years plus a bunch of hungry dogs behind him that will all cost less than the one aging vet, it's an easy equation and decision even though Cook did well last year.

[raidr4life]

3 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

Just like you and other's accuse Gruden of double speak, who is to say that Cook and his agents really wanted to come back even though he said it. We don't know the situation or the real negotiations. Cook essentially got a 1 year 8mil deal with the saints to chase a ring. He is 32 and wants to win now. That is the plan in Oakland but it's more likely in New Orleans. After this year if the Saints decide to blow it up and start a reboot then Cook can move on to chase a ring somewhere else or retire

From the Raiders side, when you have a young guy you have been preparing for the big stage for 2 years plus a bunch of hungry dogs behind him that will all cost less than the one aging vet, it's an easy equation and decision even though Cook did well last year.

Factor in the WR upgrade even if Cook was on the team he wasn't going to get the targets that he got when we had nobody else on offense.

[drfrey13]

5 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

Just like you and other's accuse Gruden of double speak, who is to say that Cook and his agents really wanted to come back even though he said it. We don't know the situation or the real negotiations. Cook essentially got a 1 year 8mil deal with the saints to chase a ring. He is 32 and wants to win now. That is the plan in Oakland but it's more likely in New Orleans. After this year if the Saints decide to blow it up and start a reboot then Cook can move on to chase a ring somewhere else or retire

From the Raiders side, when you have a young guy you have been preparing for the big stage for 2 years plus a bunch of hungry dogs behind him that will all cost less than the one aging vet, it's an easy equation and decision even though Cook did well last year.

Waller was a 6th round pick that was put on IR his first year, suspended his 2nd year for the first 4 games (substance abuse), suspended his entire 3rd year for a 2nd suspension, waived his 4th year and put on the practice squad, signed for the last 5-6 weeks by the Raiders from the Ravens practice squad in 2018.  He was only on the team for a month and a half.  The guy has 1 IR, 2 suspensions, and waived once in 4 years.  His 18 rec in 22 games for 178 yards is somehow (8.1 Y/G) is enough to say I am comfortable going with him as a starter next year and OC Olsen saying there is "no doubt" Waller can fill Cooks shoes.  This guy better look better than Tony Gonzalez at practice.    I am not at practice so I could not tell you how well he looks but they are not even wearing pads yet.  Do not say he looked good last year for us because he had 6 catches in 4 games for 75 yards.  At least it was an improvement on his play in Baltimore.  I do not hate the guy because I have not sen enough of him to form an opinion and to let a top 5 player at any position walk excluding K, P, and LS you better have some film on their replacement before you let them go.  If they just said we are going to have to develop the players we have then I would understand but to say we have no doubt is a little ridiculous.  I hope he does well but there is nothing that says he will play well. 

As for Cook not wanting to be here I can not say what was said behind closed doors.  I do know that 99% of the time it comes down to money and we had enough to lock him up and we could have developed Waller or someone else another year or two.

[NightTrainLane]

15 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Waller was a 6th round pick that was put on IR his first year, suspended his 2nd year for the first 4 games (substance abuse), suspended his entire 3rd year for a 2nd suspension, waived his 4th year and put on the practice squad, signed for the last 5-6 weeks by the Raiders from the Ravens practice squad in 2018.  He was only on the team for a month and a half.  The guy has 1 IR, 2 suspensions, and waived once in 4 years.  His 18 rec in 22 games for 178 yards is somehow (8.1 Y/G) is enough to say I am comfortable going with him as a starter next year and OC Olsen saying there is "no doubt" Waller can fill Cooks shoes.  This guy better look better than Tony Gonzalez at practice.    I am not at practice so I could not tell you how well he looks but they are not even wearing pads yet.  Do not say he looked good last year for us because he had 6 catches in 4 games for 75 yards.  At least it was an improvement on his play in Baltimore.  I do not hate the guy because I have not sen enough of him to form an opinion and to let a top 5 player at any position walk excluding K, P, and LS you better have some film on their replacement before you let them go.  If they just said we are going to have to develop the players we have then I would understand but to say we have no doubt is a little ridiculous.  I hope he does well but there is nothing that says he will play well. 

As for Cook not wanting to be here I can not say what was said behind closed doors.  I do know that 99% of the time it comes down to money and we had enough to lock him up and we could have developed Waller or someone else another year or two.

So basically you think the coaches are liars. They have seen enough to form an opinion and it was that he is good enough to fill the role in the offense that Cook held. They don't have to think he will be a ProBowler. Just that he can fill what this offense needs at the position. There is something that says he will play well. Rather someone or some people. Their names are Gruden and Olsen. They are, at the least, saying that he has the ability to.

Your really saying is you don't trust the coaches, their grasp of football, player eval, our offense and the position. You need to see the guy be successful before you believe he can be. That's fine but cynical. Which is what I called it to begin with.

[Humble_Beast]

Yes, TE job still up for grabs. Reason we just brought in Swoope, and still have Carrier... making sure someone steps up and grabs the bull by the horns 

[drfrey13]

7 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

So basically you think the coaches are liars. They have seen enough to form an opinion and it was that he is good enough to fill the role in the offense that Cook held. They don't have to think he will be a ProBowler. Just that he can fill what this offense needs at the position. There is something that says he will play well. Rather someone or some people. Their names are Gruden and Olsen. They are, at the least, saying that he has the ability to.

Your really saying is you don't trust the coaches, their grasp of football, player eval, our offense and the position. You need to see the guy be successful before you believe he can be. That's fine but cynical. Which is what I called it to begin with.

Not cynical just a realist.  This group of decision makers have already shown that they will make poor decisions when it comes to players Jon Gruden did not bring to the team.  This is just another example of them making a poor decision based off of bad information.  1) We know he has not proved anything in games. 2) Practice is a bad place to prove you will be good in games but rather the place to show you deserve the opportunity.  3) Anything done in the first week of OTAs  will not allow me to crown a player without some extra information like game play.  We let a top 5 TE walk because we thought Waller was good enough.  4) Everybody from the 53 man roster, practice squad, UDFA, and combine invitees has the ability to play well in the league but most will not.  That i why I would not let Cook go and rely on Waller.  It is too big a risk.  How would you feel if Gruden said we let Carr go because we feel Peterman has the ability to do the job.  Would you be on here talking about how they must see something in practice and maybe Carr did not want to be here.  I would hope you would question the ability of the staff to make these decisions or their motives.  Not that you distrust people but you distrust Gruden and company because of the decisions they have made.  Because I do not trust Gruden for good reason does mean I do not trust human beings and therefore I am not a cynical person.  Certain parts of what you said are true but being cynical is a view of the world not just a situation or a few people.  So please try not to disregard my opinions by saying it is cynical.  What you are saying is I do not have valid points just a skewed perception.

[NightTrainLane]

5 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Not cynical just a realist.  This group of decision makers have already shown that they will make poor decisions when it comes to players Jon Gruden did not bring to the team.  This is just another example of them making a poor decision based off of bad information.  1) We know he has not proved anything in games. 2) Practice is a bad place to prove you will be good in games but rather the place to show you deserve the opportunity.  3) Anything done in the first week of OTAs  will not allow me to crown a player without some extra information like game play.  We let a top 5 TE walk because we thought Waller was good enough.  4) Everybody from the 53 man roster, practice squad, UDFA, and combine invitees has the ability to play well in the league but most will not.  That i why I would not let Cook go and rely on Waller.  It is too big a risk.  How would you feel if Gruden said we let Carr go because we feel Peterman has the ability to do the job.  Would you be on here talking about how they must see something in practice and maybe Carr did not want to be here.  I would hope you would question the ability of the staff to make these decisions or their motives.  Not that you distrust people but you distrust Gruden and company because of the decisions they have made.  Because I do not trust Gruden for good reason does mean I do not trust human beings and therefore I am not a cynical person.  Certain parts of what you said are true but being cynical is a view of the world not just a situation or a few people.  So please try not to disregard my opinions by saying it is cynical.  What you are saying is I do not have valid points just a skewed perception.

Do you think anyone in the building doesn't see the clear points that you have pointed out.

Cook played at a pro bowl level of production last year in a vacuum.

The TEs we have in the room aren't proven as starters.

I don't disagree with any of that. They wouldn't either.

They choose to move on from Cook. We don't know why. Money, the guys behind him, Cook not wanting to be here. Maybe a combo of all or some of that. That you think any of that escapes the team is funny and frightening. If it were as simple as just penciling in a bunch of guys that "would be good" than anyone that's interested could do it.

Why I disregard your opinion is you think you're smarter than NFL gms because you can jump on Spotrac or Overthecap and put together an off season plan and than you doubt moves with the benefit of hindsight. We all are fans on this board that are giving opinions. But you start to cross into delusional when you actually think you could do it better based on the 20-30% of info (if that) we get. 

[mct288]

My thoughts on Waller. Sorry for the length, and drfrey your concerns are all valid. I just kinda like taking a leap on unproven guys sometimes  

1- They have been convinced of Waller’s potential since they got him, as Gruden talked about instantly. They think he has the ability and that he is someone they can not only develop, but can pay dividends during the development  

2- His development needs game action, which would not come if they were to bring in a more established guy/ retain Cook. This is why Luke Willson was brought in and Moreau drafted. Willson as a safe, mediocre guy that won’t be in the way of Waller’s shine, but is experienced enough to be insurance. Moreau as the potential all around guy who is safe due to blocking skills.

3- Receiving TE is not a huge priority, but a bonus. With the WR/RB upgrades, this position is the 3rd or 4th option, which is the perfect place to cheap out and give a guy a chance. If he falls flat, no big deal. But cheap upside is key. Good place on the roster to take on little risk while potentially getting rewarded if the guy is as good as they think.

Waller himself is still a mystery. You’re right about that. Although he is supposedly clean, we all know sobriety is tenuous, so a misstep is always a worry. And maybe he is a spring/summer wonder. Lord knows we have all seen that before too. However, I think the team and his situation is constructed in a way that gives him the chance to succeed, but won’t be hurt if he doesn’t. 

TL;DR - receiving tight end is now the fourth option, so might as well give a guy like him the chance for cheap. 

[drfrey13]

3 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

Do you think anyone in the building doesn't see the clear points that you have pointed out.

Cook played at a pro bowl level of production last year in a vacuum.

The TEs we have in the room aren't proven as starters.

I don't disagree with any of that. They wouldn't either.

They choose to move on from Cook. We don't know why. Money, the guys behind him, Cook not wanting to be here. Maybe a combo of all or some of that. That you think any of that escapes the team is funny and frightening. If it were as simple as just penciling in a bunch of guys that "would be good" than anyone that's interested could do it.

Why I disregard your opinion is you think you're smarter than NFL gms because you can jump on Spotrac or Overthecap and put together an off season plan and than you doubt moves with the benefit of hindsight. We all are fans on this board that are giving opinions. But you start to cross into delusional when you actually think you could do it better based on the 20-30% of info (if that) we get. 

I never said I could.  I only said I have called a large majority of our cuts before they happen.  I also have seen many posters call other aspects of what the team should do before they did it.  I also understand that you can not just speak it and it happens.  Obvious player deficiencies, horrible trade moves, bad draft picks, moves caused by panic, and not making moves which are obvious (KNJ, Cable, Reggie Nelson...) over periods of years are some of the decisions that there is no excuse for.  There is not a single person here that could run the entire FO but there are many that could handle specific aspects.  Now do we have someone that could be better than Mayock in regards to the GM position I do not know because 1) I do not know how Mayock is going to turn out and 2) Mayocks best attributes seem to be how he handles people.  No way of knowing how posters here are in dealing with people face to face.  I do believe that there are many here that would be better decision makers than RM and probably a few other GMs in the league.

[drfrey13]

9 minutes ago, mct288 said:

My thoughts on Waller. Sorry for the length, and drfrey your concerns are all valid. I just kinda like taking a leap on unproven guys sometimes  

1- They have been convinced of Waller’s potential since they got him, as Gruden talked about instantly. They think he has the ability and that he is someone they can not only develop, but can pay dividends during the development  

2- His development needs game action, which would not come if they were to bring in a more established guy/ retain Cook. This is why Luke Willson was brought in and Moreau drafted. Willson as a safe, mediocre guy that won’t be in the way of Waller’s shine, but is experienced enough to be insurance. Moreau as the potential all around guy who is safe due to blocking skills.

3- Receiving TE is not a huge priority, but a bonus. With the WR/RB upgrades, this position is the 3rd or 4th option, which is the perfect place to cheap out and give a guy a chance. If he falls flat, no big deal. But cheap upside is key. Good place on the roster to take on little risk while potentially getting rewarded if the guy is as good as they think.

Waller himself is still a mystery. You’re right about that. Although he is supposedly clean, we all know sobriety is tenuous, so a misstep is always a worry. And maybe he is a spring/summer wonder. Lord knows we have all seen that before too. However, I think the team and his situation is constructed in a way that gives him the chance to succeed, but won’t be hurt if he doesn’t. 

TL;DR - receiving tight end is now the fourth option, so might as well give a guy like him the chance for cheap. 

I agree with what your saying but just think it is a little to risky when it did not have to be.  I hope I am wrong but I could easily see many on here next year saying if we only had a reliable TE this team could have or Carr just lacked that last weapon.  If Williams or AB get banged up our passing game is dead in the water.

[G]

5 minutes ago, mct288 said:

 

3- Receiving TE is not a huge priority, but a bonus. With the WR/RB upgrades, this position is the 3rd or 4th option, which is the perfect place to cheap out and give a guy a chance. If he falls flat, no big deal. But cheap upside is key. Good place on the roster to take on little risk while potentially getting rewarded if the guy is as good as they think.

 - receiving tight end is now the fourth option, so might as well give a guy like him the chance for cheap. 

Gruden's vision

AB 1,200-1500 

Williams 1,000-1200

Jacobs & Richard 800-1200 

All TE's combined 500-800

That's over 4,000 yards and Gruden probably wants to focus on the running game, like he did his first stint here. When he got traded Bill C. opened up the passing game and we went to the SB. There are only so many balls to go around and feeding AB helps both AB and Gruden's EGO's. Making Williams look good makes everybody look good and Williams fits in great with stars around him (less ego) Jacobs will be fed til he tires because of the length of the season. Richard will give maximum effort hoping to get paid next season elsewhere. Will probably take less and go Pats if Brady is still around. LOL

[drfrey13]

2 hours ago, G said:

Gruden's vision

AB 1,200-1500 

Williams 1,000-1200

Jacobs & Richard 800-1200 

All TE's combined 500-800

That's over 4,000 yards and Gruden probably wants to focus on the running game, like he did his first stint here. When he got traded Bill C. opened up the passing game and we went to the SB. There are only so many balls to go around and feeding AB helps both AB and Gruden's EGO's. Making Williams look good makes everybody look good and Williams fits in great with stars around him (less ego) Jacobs will be fed til he tires because of the length of the season. Richard will give maximum effort hoping to get paid next season elsewhere. Will probably take less and go Pats if Brady is still around. LOL

I know this is what he says but it is not always what he does.  Last year was a little skewed because we played from behind a lot but we averaged 59% pass plays last year when the league average was 57%.  Also I believe this does not count our 52 sacks which would be almost all pass plays.  Grudens career here is over 53% which includes years that the league focused on pounding the rock and we played with a lead most of the time.  I expect 550-600 pass plays and think it could easily go above 600 if Carr feels comfortable and opens it up similar to Gannon once he had a good grasp of the offense.

[NightTrainLane]

14 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I never said I could.  I only said I have called a large majority of our cuts before they happen.  I also have seen many posters call other aspects of what the team should do before they did it.  I also understand that you can not just speak it and it happens.  Obvious player deficiencies, horrible trade moves, bad draft picks, moves caused by panic, and not making moves which are obvious (KNJ, Cable, Reggie Nelson...) over periods of years are some of the decisions that there is no excuse for.  There is not a single person here that could run the entire FO but there are many that could handle specific aspects.  Now do we have someone that could be better than Mayock in regards to the GM position I do not know because 1) I do not know how Mayock is going to turn out and 2) Mayocks best attributes seem to be how he handles people.  No way of knowing how posters here are in dealing with people face to face.  I do believe that there are many here that would be better decision makers than RM and probably a few other GMs in the league.

The closest poster here have been to any aspect of running a FO is probable setting their FF lineup or coaching kids. Some may have experience in putting together a draft board and getting into player scouting vie their tv and laptop but it just laughable that you really think anyone here could even get an internship breaking down film and making coffee runs.

Just because someone called a move or wanted to can a coach they didn't like, that isn't a qualification. It's grounds to pat each other on the back on the forum. But by all means add it to your resume.