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1 minute ago, jimkelly02 said:

It’s closer to 4.25 according to over the cap.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/
 

please don’t get me started, brother!  I’m sure people are tired of be saying I told you .... but I did say those were bad signings at the time.

i was following the Our cap space heavily (I run a spreadsheet) and saw it dropping .... and knew those moves we too costly and would hurt us in the long run.

I’m with ya 100%.... I just can’t get into the what if’s/ we shoulda’s....... it eats me up inside!

hopefully our rookie wideouts are the real deal, and DC has a monster year. we can clear some cap space and be a destination location for a couple game changing free agents (Ramsey). 

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32 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

Key is safe this year due to competition. lol . Would be nice if he steps up, I don't think he is a lost cause. I think Key can be a better version of Benson Mayowa, he was finally getting sacks then got hurt.

 

26 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I watched The Chicago game in London and we actually rushed Key as a standup DT a few times..... he did impress me from the film from last year..... he’s thin but “wiry” and slippery.  I’ll give him that.  And he’s got good pursuit.  I think it’s all going to come down to fundamentals with him.... will he develop the moves necessary to win immediately.  
 

I will say Key’s “development” this year is one of the top 5 factors for our teams success on defense.  If he can outplay what we got from Mayowa last year we’ll be in good shape.  I don’t necessarily mean he has to beat 7.0 sacks.... he just needs to be a likewise successful pass rusher to Mayowa.

I like the enthusiasm but Key producing like Mayowa is probably not going to happen.  Per snap you could argue Mayowa was the best DL player.  He did what he did in 300 snaps while Crosby played 750.  I would have brought Mayowa back over Jordan and probably cut Key for him.  Hope I am wrong and Mayock is correct.

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6 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

hopefully our rookie wideouts are the real deal, and DC has a monster year. we can clear some cap space and be a destination location for a couple game changing free agents (Ramsey). 

Yeah .... I think we can add a few cheap Defenders before the season and be a 9-7 or 10-6 playoff team....

but like I’ve Always said ‘21 is the year we’ve planned to be the year we are contenders. That’s been the plan since the Mack and cooper trades.  
we can’t sacrifice the cap for one guy who isn’t a game changer / makes us a contender.  We’ll clear a ton of cap with little dead cap and then get ourselves a nice 3Tech in the draft or FA and upgrade FS too.

honestly what do we need to be a contender in ‘21?

add a very good 3Tech, a Top FS, a competent 3rd LB, and maybe a power back, a RB2.

thats not a lot.  Draft The top FS’s in the early 20s of round 1, draft a RB in rounds 3-5, and sign Kenny Clarke + one 2 dozen oLbs

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4 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

 

I like the enthusiasm but Key producing like Mayowa is probably not going to happen.  Per snap you could argue Mayowa was the best DL player.  He did what he did in 300 snaps while Crosby played 750.  I would have brought Mayowa back over Jordan and probably cut Key for him.  Hope I am wrong and Mayock is correct.

Your right for the money mayowa should have been brought back....   heck we’re could have given him a 1yr deal that took advantage of the veteran cap credit and had ‘21 a void year.... he’d have costed 900k this year and 1.0m next year I’m dead cap.... and still gotten more then what he got from Sea.

it bothers me we didn’t use that cap credit to resign and of our FAs.

 

when I said that about key I may have not expressed myself accurately.  I don’t think he will or has to get the 7.0 sacks that mayowa did to be a success.  And remember mayowa has a few gimmie, untouched sacks.

if key’s play Overall can be in the realm of how mayowa played we’ll be fine.  That might be 4-6 sacks..... I’m just speaking in generalities here.

 

 

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Speaking of filling some holes in the roster.... the Ravens signed Kejon Barner.  They currently have:  Mark Ingram, JK Dobbins, Justice Hill, Barber, Gus Edwards plus FBs Patrick and Bronson Rechsteiner.

Maybe they release Gus Edwards or will trade him for a player.  I think Edwards would be a nice power RB for us.

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3 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

I like your take and think it’s a rational and spot on.

Id add.... Every assumes Crosby is guaranteed to have 10+ sacks..... i think he does because he has that “IT” factor.... when you watch him play he’s got the skill and more importantly the motor.  That said.... let’s not pretend a lot of his sacks last year came in bunches versus really bad OTs.... heck John Jerry is a big ole road grading RG they threw out at LT with 4th round rookie QB.  I’m not doubting Crosby but it wouldn’t be a surprise to see him get way more double teams and chips.... he’s really the only “threat” we have as a pass rusher.  That COULD cause his sacks to drop a bit..... now I say that still expecting him to get better and produce at the same level.... but it’s not outside reason to think he could see less sacks as a result of more attention paid to him.

 

I’d really like some intelligent posters like yourself to go back and watch some old tape of Collins.  NFL’s app had game pass for free still.  I’ve been watching a ton of his ‘19 games and I see 1) a 3Tech who hardly ever plays on the other side of the ball on run plays, more often than not he’s getting pushed back.... and rarely makes a tackle or is active in the play 2) I don’t see the consistent burst as a pass rusher than Hurst gives us.... At first I was happy for Collins because i was told he could push the pocket.... something we lacked.... but in the games I’ve watched he often abandons his rush lane responsibilities with a rarely effective spin move that takes him out of the play and allows the QB to step up and run... Mariota burned home for a TD this way in ‘18.

I rarely saw anything to be excited over... honestly I had high hopes for him, we were sold on how he’d be a difference maker.... I just haven’t seen it in the now 7 games I’ve watched.... maybe I’m overly critical but I don’t think so.  He is a decent pass rusher overall.... I will say that.  

Ross was a big disappointment too.  He’s pretty good at stunts though.  I’ll give him that.

I know it’s easy to make fun of Hall right now, but when you watch the tape he was “active”.  He’d often get penetration and had good pursuit.  
 

we need a DT that can get penetration on running plays.  Littleton’s and Kwiatkoski’s was really aided by good DLines.  Kwiatkoski can take on blockers, but Littleton isn’t great at that.  He excess as a chase LB.... we gotta keep him clean for him to be at his best.

I know my opinions are not popular but that’s what I’ve SEEN.  I still think we have a good team but also think we could have some real problems on defense and might not be getting the best from our star defenders because of the lack of talent around them.

I will absolutely go back and watch more of Collins, my first impressions were he was kind of 'flashy' with the spin move and looks urgent and quite explosive but as you say, quiet and relatively easily subdued in running plays.

Totally agree on the Crosby point in that he will improve and he will be a very good player but with that comes more attention so he'll have to improve just to stand still. Love his motor and he seems like a player who will work at his craft so I've no real concerns for him moving forward. Hopefully if his production does dip slightly guys like Ferrell will benefit.

Hall is such a big disappointment as it was clear he had the abilities to penetrate and make plays against the run with his squat leverage, he was probably our most naturally gifted DT with his explosion but you can only go so far on that. He wasnt prepared to hone his skills or enhance his physical skills further, his tape showed plenty of potential and that is the big shame for us. The FO seem to have put all their eggs in Collins basket so it'll be interesting to take a closer look at him!

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32 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

I will absolutely go back and watch more of Collins, my first impressions were he was kind of 'flashy' with the spin move and looks urgent and quite explosive but as you say, quiet and relatively easily subdued in running plays.

Totally agree on the Crosby point in that he will improve and he will be a very good player but with that comes more attention so he'll have to improve just to stand still. Love his motor and he seems like a player who will work at his craft so I've no real concerns for him moving forward. Hopefully if his production does dip slightly guys like Ferrell will benefit.

Hall is such a big disappointment as it was clear he had the abilities to penetrate and make plays against the run with his squat leverage, he was probably our most naturally gifted DT with his explosion but you can only go so far on that. He wasnt prepared to hone his skills or enhance his physical skills further, his tape showed plenty of potential and that is the big shame for us. The FO seem to have put all their eggs in Collins basket so it'll be interesting to take a closer look at him!

Spot on.  I too think Crosby will be just as productive if not more productive.... but he may be off to slow start or inconsistent early on as he adjusts to the extra attention.  But he’s got too much talent and skill and motor to be stopped. It’ll just take him time to adjust.  
 

It’s sad Hall couldn’t just come to camp prepared.  He really impressed me with his ability to penetrate.  He did have a lot of potential.  What a shame.  If he’s not gonna care Mayock did the right thing long term..... but his loss will be felt.  He was a great fit on this team.  He could have been the “starting” 3Tech and played running downs while Hurst and Collins were pass rushers predominantly.  We now have a big hole to fill.  We need a 3Tech than can get penetration and stuff the run.  Sadly I don’t see that ever being Collins.  Please watch the tape and give me your opinion when you have time.  But for the others who are reading this and haven’t watched the tape but are sold on Collins being the starter I ask this: why has he started so many games (61GP,55GS) yet only had 19-23 combines tackles per season?

I really think Hurst is a better run defender.  While he gets blown up by double teams (and occasionally even just the G/C) he at least gets solid penetration occasionally.  
 

Maybe Collins makes a massive leap this year, he is young.  But I don’t see it happening.  So many people here have high high hopes for him and I really think their gonna be very disappointed.  
 

One of Marinelli’s biggest criticisms in Dallas was his inability to get solid play from the 3Tech.  He’s notorious for having “his type of DT” and wasn’t able to develop them and get solid production.  The 3Tech is incredibly important to his defense.  When he was let go, Dallas let Collins walk and invested heavily at DT by signing Gerald McCoy and Dontari Poe.  The DTs under Marinelli really held the defense back.

 

If Collins isn’t what everyone is expecting him to be our defense will have big problems.  However, we do have very good run stuffing DEs and Hankins is a stud NT so that will mitigate the damage.

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I've just started digging into Collins and I'm going to have a look back over Hurst too, I want to do a thorough job though so it may take me a day or two to get back.........

Basically I think we're pretty closely aligned on these issues 😀

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14 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Speaking of filling some holes in the roster.... the Ravens signed Kejon Barner.  They currently have:  Mark Ingram, JK Dobbins, Justice Hill, Barber, Gus Edwards plus FBs Patrick and Bronson Rechsteiner.

Maybe they release Gus Edwards or will trade him for a player.  I think Edwards would be a nice power RB for us.

It's what I've been saying. Someone will cut an RB and we'll sign one. I still think if you count bowden as an ST guy because of flexibility, we could carry Jacobs, Richard, and a 3rd back. Edwards could be that guy.

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4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

It's what I've been saying. Someone will cut an RB and we'll sign one. I still think if you count bowden as an ST guy because of flexibility, we could carry Jacobs, Richard, and a 3rd back. Edwards could be that guy.

Yeah they’re are always some RBs available at the deadline.  Gus Edwards or Jamaal Williams of GB would be real nice additions.  I think there’s definitely room for 2 of these 3 things: 4th RB, 4th TE, and 10th OL. 

i was pretty happy with Sharpes play (At RT) last year and if he show enough to be our LT2, then that would mean we could cut Parker (and then possibly put on PS) and go with 9 OL.  Given Gruden wants to run 3 TE sets and Carrier is actually pretty talented and plays ST he has a real shot at making the team.  It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

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On 8/10/2020 at 9:56 AM, jimkelly02 said:

It’s sad Hall couldn’t just come to camp prepared.  He really impressed me with his ability to penetrate.  He did have a lot of potential.  What a shame.  If he’s not gonna care Mayock did the right thing long term..... but his loss will be felt.  He was a great fit on this team.  He could have been the “starting” 3Tech and played running downs while Hurst and Collins were pass rushers predominantly.  We now have a big hole to fill.  We need a 3Tech than can get penetration and stuff the run.  Sadly I don’t see that ever being Collins.  Please watch the tape and give me your opinion when you have time.  But for the others who are reading this and haven’t watched the tape but are sold on Collins being the starter I ask this: why has he started so many games (61GP,55GS) yet only had 19-23 combines tackles per season?

I've had a good chance to watch a few random games from Collins in '18 and '19, primarily the Eagles, Giants, Pats and Jaguars plus some other clips if him specifically. I also had a look into a few of our games to compare against our DTs and our DL as a whole. 

I was impressed by his first step and explosion in particular. He was also very active with his hands and able to use counter moves. His technique looked pretty refined (Marinelli?).

Obviously his spin move is kind of his signature move and it's fast and compact and effective though he can overdo it. Has a good feint and twist move also and he created lots of pressures but only a handful of sacks.

He has great balance, his body type is big for a 3T but he plays fast and he's very urgent though he's not as strong as a NT type and did get moved on double teams.

It seemed like his assignments were mostly to shoot gaps and penetrate and he was able to beat open gaps and shoot between 2 linemen to penetrate often. Occasionally he had to anchor and take a double team but he seemed to cope ok but not great, he couldn't hold the point of attack for long.

Occasionally he can shoot through and the run play had gone past but I'm not sure if he was just doing his assignment or had eyes for the QB when he should have been playing the run, difficult to know. I think that's why his tackle stats are not great, he either gets a TFL or shoots himself out if the play maybe. 

Tackling was good, and he looked good on inside stunts and is versatile as a pass rusher but on occasion he does 'pop up' quickly and lose leverage. He's not a great leverage player like an Aaron Donald, probably why he struggled against double teams. He did get washed out of a few running plays aswell, very similar to watching Hurst. I though he was only average against the run but with the odd flashy TFL caused by his penetration.

Mostly, he seemed to try and play the run by shooting gaps again and making splashy plays. I'm not sure if it's by design but he just seems a very attacking type DT that perhaps wasn't asked to hold the PoA and anchor nor stack and shed and he doesn't do that well. To be fair, if we ask him to do that we're probably wasting his skill set.

In comparison to our DL he looks faster and more urgent than Hurst who I thought wasnt as quick or urgent as I remembered. Hall by contrast did stand out in flashes and looked quite explosive before going missing for plays. Collins is more similar to Hall than Hurst to me, Hurst was washed out of a number of plays pretty easily and just couldn't hold the PoA at all even 1 on 1. Hurst can shoot gaps but he wasnt as explosive as Collins, Collins is a big upgrade IMO. Hall being shorter had better leverage and more strength, Collins looks like a mix of Hurst and Hall but better than both.

Overall, I feel if we have Collins play to his strengths he will be a very good asset, very impressed with his explosion, balance, urgency and technique. He does give less effort in obvious run plays but he's not a liability I don't feel and again if we're asking him to 2 gap or stack and shed or hold the line then were misusing him and he will be a disappointment. If we ask him to pin his ears back, shoot gaps and disrupt he could be a Pro Bowl type talent. I'm quite excited about his pass rush potential. He's a more explosive, better Hurst in a bigger body.

Hope this is clear, i have a couple pages of notes (sad i know 😁) if you would like me to expand on anything!

 

Edited by Darbsk
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14 hours ago, Darbsk said:

I've had a good chance to watch a few random games from Collins in '18 and '19, primarily the Eagles, Giants, Pats and Jaguars plus some other clips if him specifically. I also had a look into a few of our games to compare against our DTs and our DL as a whole. 

I was impressed by his first step and explosion in particular. He was also very active with his hands and able to use counter moves. His technique looked pretty refined (Marinelli?).

Obviously his spin move is kind of his signature move and it's fast and compact and effective though he can overdo it. Has a good feint and twist move also and he created lots of pressures but only a handful of sacks.

He has great balance, his body type is big for a 3T but he plays fast and he's very urgent though he's not as strong as a NT type and did get moved on double teams.

It seemed like his assignments were mostly to shoot gaps and penetrate and he was able to beat open gaps and shoot between 2 linemen to penetrate often. Occasionally he had to anchor and take a double team but he seemed to cope ok but not great, he couldn't hold the point of attack for long.

Occasionally he can shoot through and the run play had gone past but I'm not sure if he was just doing his assignment or had eyes for the QB when he should have been playing the run, difficult to know. I think that's why his tackle stats are not great, he either gets a TFL or shoots himself out if the play maybe. 

Tackling was good, and he looked good on inside stunts and is versatile as a pass rusher but on occasion he does 'pop up' quickly and lose leverage. He's not a great leverage player like an Aaron Donald, probably why he struggled against double teams. He did get washed out of a few running plays aswell, very similar to watching Hurst. I though he was only average against the run but with the odd flashy TFL caused by his penetration.

Mostly, he seemed to try and play the run by shooting gaps again and making splashy plays. I'm not sure if it's by design but he just seems a very attacking type DT that perhaps wasn't asked to hold the PoA and anchor nor stack and shed and he doesn't do that well. To be fair, if we ask him to do that we're probably wasting his skill set.

In comparison to our DL he looks faster and more urgent than Hurst who I thought wasnt as quick or urgent as I remembered. Hall by contrast did stand out in flashes and looked quite explosive before going missing for plays. Collins is more similar to Hall than Hurst to me, Hurst was washed out of a number of plays pretty easily and just couldn't hold the PoA at all even 1 on 1. Hurst can shoot gaps but he wasnt as explosive as Collins, Collins is a big upgrade IMO. Hall being shorter had better leverage and more strength, Collins looks like a mix of Hurst and Hall but better than both.

Overall, I feel if we have Collins play to his strengths he will be a very good asset, very impressed with his explosion, balance, urgency and technique. He does give less effort in obvious run plays but he's not a liability I don't feel and again if we're asking him to 2 gap or stack and shed or hold the line then were misusing him and he will be a disappointment. If we ask him to pin his ears back, shoot gaps and disrupt he could be a Pro Bowl type talent. I'm quite excited about his pass rush potential. He's a more explosive, better Hurst in a bigger body.

Hope this is clear, i have a couple pages of notes (sad i know 😁) if you would like me to expand on anything!

 

Edit....will reply shortly

Edited by jimkelly02
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