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2 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I'd say Kwiatkoski is definitely an above average starting LB. A good player. But not a game changer/perennial pro bowler.

Litteton is also probably somewhere in that range. He won't change the game, but he can definitely help you win. LB is most likely fine. I like JOK, but he didn't have his best game vs Alabama and I'd be fine to go elsewhere with the pick (triple down at CB or obviously DL).

We could nickname him The Joker 🃏..... no corners, they will struggle will no pass rush.... has to be a front 7 player 

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1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

We could nickname him The Joker 🃏..... no corners, they will struggle will no pass rush.... has to be a front 7 player 

I mean I don't want to brutally reach. There are some good 1st round edge rushers. But if they feel like Surtain, Horn, or Farley can be elite, I wouldn't pass on them either. I'd rather have someone who could be Jaire Alexander than a project bust. Not that you're saying that. I just want an impact player.

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4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Litteton is also probably somewhere in that range. He won't change the game, but he can definitely help you win. LB is most likely fine. I like JOK, but he didn't have his best game vs Alabama and I'd be fine to go elsewhere with the pick (triple down at CB or obviously DL).

Littleton was one of the best LB's in the league with the Rams. 

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3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Littleton was one of the best LB's in the league with the Rams. 

I think so too, but it's hard for an off the ball LB to "change the game". Unless you're Luke Keuchly or Patrick Willis. I still think he's damn good. He didn't get targeted as much down the stretch imo.

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7 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Littleton was one of the best LB's in the league with the Rams. 

Rams have Aaron Donald among other talents that helps. Littleton is a role player. Raiders fans want him to be more than he is. He was a sum of the parts with the Rams. He can be better than we saw, but he's still nothing more than a role player on any defense. 

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4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Rams have Aaron Donald among other talents that helps. Littleton is a role player. Raiders fans want him to be more than he is. He was a sum of the parts with the Rams. He can be better than we saw, but he's still nothing more than a role player on any defense. 

He was a difference maker for the Rams. Over his last two seasons there he had 259 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 15 TFL, 9 QB hits, 5 INT, 22 passes defended, 2 FF, and 4 FR. While also being considered one of the best coverage LB's in the league. There's a reason he was a Pro Bowler and named an All-Pro with the Rams. And he was ranked as a top free agent by every major publication, sporting news had him at #13, CBS sports had him at #14, and Bleacher Report had him as the #1 off ball linebacker in free agency. 

Bleacher Report on him as a free agent

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Cory Littleton has the exact skill set of a modern-day linebacker. At 6'3", 228 pounds, he's not a big thumper. Former Los Angeles Rams defensive coordinator Wade Phillips trusted the fourth-year pro in coverage, blitzes and on early downs against the run, and the Washington product didn't disappoint anywhere.

In 2018, he claimed a starting role and earned Pro Bowl honors, logging 125 tackles, nine for loss, four sacks, 13 pass breakups and three interceptions. The 26-year-old didn't receive a nod for the January All-Star game this year, though his numbers remained relatively consistent across the board. He'll be rewarded on the market if the Rams allow him to walk.

Edited by NYRaider
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4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Rams have Aaron Donald among other talents that helps. Littleton is a role player. Raiders fans want him to be more than he is. He was a sum of the parts with the Rams. He can be better than we saw, but he's still nothing more than a role player on any defense. 

Quote

Since 2018, Littleton has been of the most productive players in the NFL at the position, totaling a combined 259 tackles, 15 TFL, 7.5 sacks and five interceptions. He was selected to the Pro Bowl two years ago but did not receive the same honor this past season despite recording near-identical - and in many cases superior - numbers across the board.

Littleton’s emerged as one of the premier off-ball linebackers in the league. Over the past two seasons, he’s graded out better in pass coverage than all but two other players at the position: Luke Kuechly and Lavonte David. While he excels in defending against the pass, Littleton remains an active and impactful force against the run and as a pass-rusher - as evidenced by his tackles and sacks numbers.

PFF had Littleton ranked 16th on their list of the top-50 overall free agents.

 

 

Edited by NYRaider
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8 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think so too, but it's hard for an off the ball LB to "change the game". Unless you're Luke Keuchly or Patrick Willis. I still think he's damn good. He didn't get targeted as much down the stretch imo.

He did a pretty good job of changing the game for the Rams with 8 sacks, 5 INT, 6 FF/FR, and 259 tackles over his last two seasons while also being one of the best coverage linebackers in the league. He was a WLB in the Rams defense and Phillips used him in a variety of ways while we pigeonholed him into a SLB role in Guenther's complicated, conservative, and ineffective scheme. IIRC the guys on the Athletic said Guenther had like 40 different audibles on 3rd down alone and that guys were confused most of the time because of how complicated he made the scheme for them.

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Littleton can be way more than a “role player”.  I hate using titles on players because people have little hissy fits about “what elite means” and “who a WR1 really is”... and totally sidetracks the conversation, which is honestly what it’s meant to do: distract from the other persons argument.  Nonetheless, Littleton surely was helped by Donald (and that DL) but he was top notch in coverage and that has almost nothing to Do with Donald.  But Littleton was good in ZONE coverage as a 34ILB.  Moving him to SAM was a massive mistake that I called in TC as soon as I heard about it, I assumed he’d be playing WILL.  Littleton can be a very very good player for us year IF we play him in a role that is suitable to his strengths not his weaknesses.
 

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1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

Littleton can be way more than a “role player”.  I hate using titles on players because people have little hissy fits about “what elite means” and “who a WR1 really is”... and totally sidetracks the conversation, which is honestly what it’s meant to do: distract from the other persons argument.  Nonetheless, Littleton surely was helped by Donald (and that DL) but he was top notch in coverage and that has almost nothing to Do with Donald.  But Littleton was good in ZONE coverage as a 34ILB.  Moving him to SAM was a massive mistake that I called in TC as soon as I heard about it, I assumed he’d be playing WILL.  Littleton can be a very very good player for us year IF we play him in a role that is suitable to his strengths not his weaknesses.
 

Why is it the Raiders have went to the Rams well twice, only to take what the player was good at and use him in a different way? 

Why does this organization insist on being so dumb about things? Every fan can see Joyner is better suited as a FS and Littleton at WLB. I honestly question the judgment of the people who evaluate the talent in Vegas. 

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7 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Why is it the Raiders have went to the Rams well twice, only to take what the player was good at and use him in a different way? 

Because Gruden had more faith in Guenther and his scheme than the entire catholic church has in the pope. 

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28 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

Why is it the Raiders have went to the Rams well twice, only to take what the player was good at and use him in a different way? 

Why does this organization insist on being so dumb about things? Every fan can see Joyner is better suited as a FS and Littleton at WLB. I honestly question the judgment of the people who evaluate the talent in Vegas. 

You're right.  We should hire Wade Phillips.  Lol.

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