Random Raider Stuff

[SilverNBlackFan]

3 minutes ago, Geezy said:

and, what you said was wrong, they werent a perennial average team OR an after though. They finished 2nd in the division the two years prior to him getting drafted. Theyve always been on the mix

2013 to 2017, made the playoffs once as a third place team in their division. 2018 before Lamar took over they were 4-5 losing their last 3 games. Insert Lamar they win 6 of 7.

[Geezy]

2 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I don't think it's a double standard. Most understood Carr needed help. Same time, we also watched him ignore Cooper who they promptly shipped out of town.

Jackson is younger and in his 3rd year. We all knew what Carr's ceiling was as we'd seen it already. 

I'm not a big believer in Jackson for the record.

Coop has also pulled the ol' disappearing act in Dallas, so at the time i was frustrated with DC now it seems Cooper is the bigger issue as DC seemed to look downfield plenty with Agholor. 

[Geezy]

1 minute ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

2013 to 2017, made the playoffs once as a third place team in their division. 2018 before Lamar took over they were 4-5 losing their last 3 games. Insert Lamar they win 6 of 7.

Lamar put them over the top more than anything. Flacco was holding them back imo. BMore for the most part has always had a solid roster. Ozzie was one of the best GMs ever. 

[big_palooka]

Just now, Jerry said:

I still don't think we have seen it.  Pretty sure this is the first time he's ever been in the same scheme for 3 straight years.  We have no clue what he can become if Ruggs takes a big step forward and we retain real talent.  If our running game improves back to its 2019 form, he can be even better.  I would not be surprised if he continued to take another step forward and get closer to 35 TDs next season.  We don't know because it hasn't happened yet.  But we all have seen the improvement over these last 3 seasons.

I disagree. Even if they improve in the redzone and he gets 35 TDs, he's still the same player just through a few more TDs. 

He will always be a QB who needs a running game to operate. He's still shaky when he gets pressured and turns the ball over. He's always going to play safe. His deep ball will always be lacking. He throws floaters. 

He's a good QB. He will get you 9-10 wins and his best years be one and done in the playoffs. 

[big_palooka]

2 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Coop has also pulled the ol' disappearing act in Dallas, so at the time i was frustrated with DC now it seems Cooper is the bigger issue as DC seemed to look downfield plenty with Agholor. 

Cooper transformed the Cowboys immediately after being traded and helped launch them into the playoffs. 

He's caught 1,000+ yards every year he's been with them. Even this year without Dak.

Can only speculate what happened in Oakland, but he's been a good player.

[Jerry]

8 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I disagree. Even if they improve in the redzone and he gets 35 TDs, he's still the same player just through a few more TDs. 

He will always be a QB who needs a running game to operate. He's still shaky when he gets pressured and turns the ball over. He's always going to play safe. His deep ball will always be lacking. He throws floaters. 

He's a good QB. He will get you 9-10 wins and his best years be one and done in the playoffs. 

We agree to disagree.

[Geezy]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

Cooper transformed the Cowboys immediately after being traded and helped launch them into the playoffs. 

He's caught 1,000+ yards every year he's been with them. Even this year without Dak.

Can only speculate what happened in Oakland, but he's been a good player.

yea, Coop puts up numbers, but we knew that. He did give a jolt that first year and i was miserable because of it, because he looked like the WR we all knew he could be, among the best. But since then? Mostly fluff. Big game followed by a couple where you barely notice him, way too inconsistent for 20m. And this past year, it was mostly garbage time stats when they were down multiple scores. He had more games with less than 51 yards than he did with +100 this past season year before same thing, 4 games +100, 7 less than 50, not really #1 type numbers

[oakdb36]

55 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Lol Say what you want about Jackson, but the moment he stepped on to the field for Baltimore he turned them from a perennially average team with Flacco to a consistent playoff contender. He has won over 75% of his starts and for being a guy who can't throw has 62 passing TDs his last two years.

Will he ever be a great passer? No. Will he have a long career? Maybe not, as much as he runs. Is he a better player right now today over Derek Carr? Absolutely yes. 

Vick did it for Atlanta too. That special running ability from the QB position can win games. In the playoffs, it's not working so well.

[SilverNBlackFan]

10 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Vick did it for Atlanta too. That special running ability from the QB position can win games. In the playoffs, it's not working so well.

Agreed. But the key part of your post is "In the playoffs" somewhere we've never seen Carr play in.

Lamar, for all his flaws, is a better player than Carr. Not a better pocket passer but overall. 

[oakdb36]

13 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Agreed. But the key part of your post is "In the playoffs" somewhere we've never seen Carr play in.

Lamar, for all his flaws, is a better player than Carr. Not a better pocket passer but overall. 

Are we allowed to talk about his defense? It's a tad better than ours.

[agarcia34]

TE coach Frank Smith leaving for the Chargers 

[drfrey13]

There is a reason why we refer to players as HOF caliber or pro Bowl players and teams as playoff or Super Bowl teams.  The argument here is not whether Carr can win a Super Bowl or even a playoff game but rather how much help does he need to win.  Any QB in the league can win a championship if the circumstances are good enough.  The FO and coaches are going to be the most important pieces if Carr can not carry the team.  They have accumulated a ton of drafted capital and maxed out the cap and we were still 8-8.  We can talk day and night, which we do, about what Carr needs or the QB that we need but or coaches and FO has failed this team more than Carr.  I personally would lean towards getting rid of Gruden.  Carr needs luck and talent but so do 85% of the other QBs in the league.  We can be a playoff team with Carr but we will never be the Chiefs with Carr and Gruden.  Carr has improved over the past couple years but his current position is not good enough for me and he is getting to the age where the amount he will improve will lessen each year most likely.  If we collapse again next year both should be gone.

[RaidersAreOne]

3 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

TE coach Frank Smith leaving for the Chargers 

Big bummer. He seems like a super solid coach and obviously had a hand in developing Waller and Moreau.

[SilverNBlackFan]

2 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Are we allowed to talk about his defense? It's a tad better than ours.

Sure, if we are we allowed to talk about where both teams spend the majority of their cap at. If the numbers I am looking at are correct...

The Raiders indentity has been offense and surrounding Carr with expensive talent around him. 2017, 2018, and 2020 the Raiders were ranked 2nd in the league in offensive spending. 2019 we were 6th.

The Ravens indentity has been defense since their inception. In the two years Lamar has started, they have ranked 3rd and 2nd least in the league on offensive spending. But yet they had the best offense in the league in 2019, and another top ten one this year.

So Lamar is literally producing more with bottom barrel offensive talent around him. Like I said, say what you will about his passing but overall he's a better player than Carr.

Do you think Carr could lead a team to a top ten offense in consecutive years if the majority of the money was spent on defense? 

[NCOUGHMAN]

8 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

There is a reason why we refer to players as HOF caliber or pro Bowl players and teams as playoff or Super Bowl teams.  The argument here is not whether Carr can win a Super Bowl or even a playoff game but rather how much help does he need to win.  Any QB in the league can win a championship if the circumstances are good enough.  The FO and coaches are going to be the most important pieces if Carr can not carry the team.  They have accumulated a ton of drafted capital and maxed out the cap and we were still 8-8.  We can talk day and night, which we do, about what Carr needs or the QB that we need but or coaches and FO has failed this team more than Carr.  I personally would lean towards getting rid of Gruden.  Carr needs luck and talent but so do 85% of the other QBs in the league.  We can be a playoff team with Carr but we will never be the Chiefs with Carr and Gruden.  Carr has improved over the past couple years but his current position is not good enough for me and he is getting to the age where the amount he will improve will lessen each year most likely.  If we collapse again next year both should be gone.

I think gruden has helped carr reach his ceiling. Personally I’d dump both of them but carr been here longer so I really curious about gruden with a hand picked drafted qb. If that not gonna happen he can kick rocks.