Random Raider Stuff

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I’m done with this conversation after this:

Maybe you misread what I said or maybe I didn’t do good (I accept that is a very legit possibility) enough job explaining....so I’ll try again:

carr has no edge.  He has no intimidation factor.  He’s the epitome of what you think of a upper middle class Christian guy whose prolly never really really roughed it.  He has two great parents who prolly to every game and PTO meeting as a kid.  
on the other hand there are a lot of players (of all races, this isn’t a race issue. I know some “hood as F” Irish boys that ain’t no one here going to step to) who grew to struggling and fighting .... etc etc.  

they might like DC as person.... they might respect him as a man... but when they step out of line and DC would have to be a leader and step to them.... the first thought is “who is this guy think he is?  He’s soft, he ain’t aint about that life, he doesn’t want none”.  
My point was DC needs to have more toughness.... he’s gotta be able to meet every player on their own level.  When there’s a situation that gets to the point where The leader needs to put one of the other players in line there’s always a face to face stand off... you size each other up and look into a Mans eyes and either see fear or a willingness to fight.  

look at the AB and Mayock fight.  AB thought he could press up on MM and get away with it.  He thought he could intimidate Mayock.  Mayock looked him in the eye and didn’t blink or show A drop of fear.  Carr needs to have that edge.  Obviously if rarely gets to the point if actually fighting but a leader on a team needs to let all other players know that if they want to step out of line they will be put right back in line one way or another.

So basically you want carr to be more of an assertive alpha type is what I’m getting from reading this? 
 

 

[jimkelly02]

14 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

So basically you want carr to be more of an assertive alpha type is what I’m getting from reading this? 
 

 

Yes....The expression means the person doesn’t back down... Is willing to bring it as far as it needs to go.... isn’t a push over.... isn’t afraid of confrontation....not someone you want to challenge.

You say it about someone who on first appearances might not look that tough, but push come to shove is about it.  

I don’t care how vanilla TB12 or Peyton if they ain’t not gonna stand up to any and everyone .  Carr needs to have that aspect of a personality, the ability to “flip a switch” bring it out.

And it’s not like even 1% of issues end up in fists being thrown but you need to look another man in the eyes and show no fear and make him submit to what you want.  The result of not doing so could be a fight or it could be that the leader pushes for them to be sent home, cut, traded, etc.  but they get in line or they’re paying on way or an other.

Edited February 11, 2021 by jimkelly02

[big_palooka]

15 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I’m done with this conversation after this:

Good because it's nonsense......

You equate leadership to intimidation and think it comes from people who had to rough it? Most these QBs are upper middle class kids, playing at elite high schools with every opportunity imaginable to excel at the position. Then get scholarships to the best colleges. You think guys like Brees, Peyton, Brady, Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, had to rough it? 

Give me a break with this nonsense. Calling Carr soft. The guy has played injured for this team several times now. What's the guy got to do to earn respect?

Here's a thought... maybe look at yelling, screaming, finger pointing, excuse making, emotional hot head Jon Gruden and ask the questions about leadership again. Seems he has a history of teams collapsing on his watch. 

 

[big_palooka]

22 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yes....The expression means the person doesn’t back down... Is willing to bring it as far as it needs to go.... isn’t a push over.... isn’t afraid of confrontation....not someone you want to challenge.

You say it about someone who on first appearances might not look that tough, but push come to shove is about it.  

I don’t care how vanilla TB12 or Peyton if they ain’t not gonna stand up to any and everyone .  Carr needs to have that aspect of a personality, the ability to “flip a switch” bring it out.

And it’s not like even 1% of issues end up in fists being thrown but you need to look another man in the eyes and show no fear and make him submit to what you want.  The result of not doing so could be a fight or it could be that the leader pushes for them to be sent home, cut, traded, etc.  but they get in line or they’re paying on way or an other.

I hope to hell you don't manage a team of people or assume any leadership roles where you work 

[NCOUGHMAN]

42 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yes....The expression means the person doesn’t back down... Is willing to bring it as far as it needs to go.... isn’t a push over.... isn’t afraid of confrontation....not someone you want to challenge.

You say it about someone who on first appearances might not look that tough, but push come to shove is about it.  

I don’t care how vanilla TB12 or Peyton if they ain’t not gonna stand up to any and everyone .  Carr needs to have that aspect of a personality, the ability to “flip a switch” bring it out.

And it’s not like even 1% of issues end up in fists being thrown but you need to look another man in the eyes and show no fear and make him submit to what you want.  The result of not doing so could be a fight or it could be that the leader pushes for them to be sent home, cut, traded, etc.  but they get in line or they’re paying on way or an other.

I agree with that 100%

I’ve seen some of the most quiet players flip that switch to savage levels. So I never underestimate the quiet types. 

you can’t teach that tho imo you’re  either built like that or your not. Unfortunately I don’t think carr is built like that. Imo he just wanted to do better than his brother which he succeeded at. 

[jimkelly02]

3 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I agree with that 100%

I’ve seen some of the most quiet players flip that switch to savage levels. So I never underestimate the quiet types. 

you can’t teach that tho imo you’re  either built like that or your not. Unfortunately I don’t think carr is built like that. Imo he just wanted to do better than his brother which he succeeded at. 

Yeah.... your either built with the flip switch or your not.... some people can get better at it thru experience but you gotta have it to start and Carr doesn’t.

the biggest issue is that Carr’s personality or whatever you call it is established amongst the other players. It’s very hard to change people’s beliefs of who you are at your core.  If his teammates know he’s soft and he tries to challenge them they call his bluff.  It’s like the nerdy kid in school Deciding he’s gonna stand up to the bullies after years of being bullied.... it ain’t gonna go so smooth the first time he stands up lol.  But the nerdy kid who swings first the first time he’s bullied is very unlikely to have a second person try him because they know there’s no free punches, the dork is firing back and likely first.  

So the only way Carr can obtain the strong leadership role for the team to remove the handful of teammates that are most likely to challenge him and spread dissent in the locker room.  Next he’d have to pull the old cliche “walk into prison, bump into the biggest guy you see, and take off on him right away” type of move.... of course I don’t mean actually hit,,, I mean he’s going to have to challenge someone the other players view as strong.... and make him back down.  He’d have to win everyone’s respect.

so It is possible for him to do if he had that innate trait in him but you can’t fake it, you’ll get exposed real fast.  

and your absolutely right about the quiet ones can be absolute savages sometimes.... I’ve seen that more than a few times, especially in prison.  Them quiet little old Spanish grandpa looking dudes who barely say a word ever but disrespect them and your getting poked up before you blink.  I’ve two met young dungeon and dragon little white kids that you’d think were in for DUI or “internet crimes” but then you find out they caught a body or did some Gruesome ****.  Then again I’ve seen dudes with several bodies who are soft as hell when it comes to Fists but we’re shooters.  Or their physical imposing but are soft.  They come in all shapes and sizes on both spectrums: real and fake.  But you can’t fake realness for too long cu someone will Try ya.

ultimately Carr’s the “soft leader” as I call it.  He leads by good example.  He’ll try and befriend and be a good influence on a guy he knows he won’t step up to.  He did this with AB.... he had him come to Live with him at first and was his new best friend.  That’s fine and all Until AB isn’t happy, he acts up, Carr tries talking you his “friend” and AB ain’t hearing it cuz he knows Carr’s soft and he don’t fear or respect him. Carr should have stepped to AB from the jump,,, this is my team you fall in line or your gone- it’s that simple.  You can’t be a leader and friends with a guy like AB.... it’s just like you can’t be friends with your work subordinates, the “cool boss” thing doesn’t work. There’s always guys like AB who stir dissent in the locker room and “rebel rouse” and it spreads fast.  People pick up on it fast.... we’re all animals who are wired to recognize the peaking order.

Back in the day and even today there were players who ran the locker room.  When someone acts up they’d come check them.... it was fall in line or a fight in the showers or “out back”.  

 

[jimkelly02]

4 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

 Unfortunately I don’t think carr is built like that. Imo he just wanted to do better than his brother which he succeeded at. 

That’s a really good point I almost missed and never thought about before.  Derek definitely has the little brother complex.  He probably just wanted the approval of his older brother.... I mean who wouldn’t look up to a much older brother Whose the #1 pick?  

[jimkelly02]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I hope to hell you don't manage a team of people or assume any leadership roles where you work 

I do very well don’t you worry.  A few years out of the joint and I’m making near 6 figures to very low 6 figures depending on the year.  But i absolutely work for every penny, 80+ hours a week in the summer.  I’m in construction and if someone messes up they will Absolutely get chewed out.... and if you don’t keep your mouth shut and take it your gone.... you mess up, you better swallow your tongue when you get called out or your replaced.

If you want to talk back it won’t end well.  My Boss is incredibly tough on me but it’s made me a much better salesman and manager.  
If someone’s slacking or acting up they fall in line and end it or gone.  There’s no “cool boss” as it doesn’t work long term.  Workers only react positively to incentives for good performance and hits to their paycheck when they don’t perform or act up.  There’s no HR department and “corrective action plans” in the real world.   
 

maybe your removed from the real world in some cushy “intellectual” type of job.  But you can’t be that smart cuz  talking to you is like talking to A wall.  
 

you pull the same old routine over and over.  It’s pretty tiring to be honest.  You have no fan club, there’s no line of people waiting to argue with you.  Your not that worthy.  When BR and I squabbled at least he earned my respect for not backing down and being intelligent with his opposition to my claims.  With you it’s low grade bickering and to be honest I’m very uninterested in furthering any conservations with you.  Unlike you I have no need to constantly provoke and irritate and be the one to get the last shot in.   I don’t have to you make my points for me.  Example: Jon Gruden screams and yells and makes his Chuckys face but after a while players call his bluff and it doesn’t work.  He puts on this unique version of a tough coach but he’s so far removed from it.  My entire long post was about how a leader needs to be genuinely strong and you can’t fake it.... when Jons yelling face to face at a player they don’t buy the tough guy act..... they see it in his eyes.  But you can’t comprehend the points I made and think I’m advocating for Carr to run around screaming at everyone acting like a total loud mouth douchebag.  The other example is I called Carr soft when it comes to leadership and more specifically confrontation.  That’s absolutely different then being mentally tough and playing through bad injuries.  If you can’t follow simple logic like this I’m just gonna wish you the best and move on.  You can send your little petty “last shot” that you ALWAYS do but I won’t be replying.  There’s plenty of other good posters on here to talk to.  Some of them constantly disagree but offer a good opposing argument.  Others I often agree with and enjoy building on the conversation.  All I see from you is someone who jumps into the debate at the end and has some condescending, smug remark.  Best wishes!

Edited February 12, 2021 by jimkelly02

[jimkelly02]

6 hours ago, Geezy said:

our TE coach last year was Jason Witten lol 

I mean I hope he taught Waller and Moreau a lot.... cuz we totally overpaid him based upon what he could ever do at a player at this point in his career.

I think If you have a young, relatable position coach they can be just as influential as a “backup mentor” as Witten was..... but there are a select few guys, and Witten is definitely one of them, who can probably add a good amount of coaching and mentoring value that a position coach can’t because of the dynamics of the relationship.  Witten was Waller’s peer on the field while Smith was the coach.  It’s hard to explain via typing but there a interesting dynamic there.  Hopefully Witten’s influence boosted Waller and Moreau’s return on investment through future performance by more than 2.5m ..... cuz he wasn’t with 1.0M based upon his play alone.

[NCOUGHMAN]

54 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yeah.... your either built with the flip switch or your not.... some people can get better at it thru experience but you gotta have it to start and Carr doesn’t.

the biggest issue is that Carr’s personality or whatever you call it is established amongst the other players. It’s very hard to change people’s beliefs of who you are at your core.  If his teammates know he’s soft and he tries to challenge them they call his bluff.  It’s like the nerdy kid in school Deciding he’s gonna stand up to the bullies after years of being bullied.... it ain’t gonna go so smooth the first time he stands up lol.  But the nerdy kid who swings first the first time he’s bullied is very unlikely to have a second person try him because they know there’s no free punches, the dork is firing back and likely first.  

So the only way Carr can obtain the strong leadership role for the team to remove the handful of teammates that are most likely to challenge him and spread dissent in the locker room.  Next he’d have to pull the old cliche “walk into prison, bump into the biggest guy you see, and take off on him right away” type of move.... of course I don’t mean actually hit,,, I mean he’s going to have to challenge someone the other players view as strong.... and make him back down.  He’d have to win everyone’s respect.

so It is possible for him to do if he had that innate trait in him but you can’t fake it, you’ll get exposed real fast.  

and your absolutely right about the quiet ones can be absolute savages sometimes.... I’ve seen that more than a few times, especially in prison.  Them quiet little old Spanish grandpa looking dudes who barely say a word ever but disrespect them and your getting poked up before you blink.  I’ve two met young dungeon and dragon little white kids that you’d think were in for DUI or “internet crimes” but then you find out they caught a body or did some Gruesome ****.  Then again I’ve seen dudes with several bodies who are soft as hell when it comes to Fists but we’re shooters.  Or their physical imposing but are soft.  They come in all shapes and sizes on both spectrums: real and fake.  But you can’t fake realness for too long cu someone will Try ya.

ultimately Carr’s the “soft leader” as I call it.  He leads by good example.  He’ll try and befriend and be a good influence on a guy he knows he won’t step up to.  He did this with AB.... he had him come to Live with him at first and was his new best friend.  That’s fine and all Until AB isn’t happy, he acts up, Carr tries talking you his “friend” and AB ain’t hearing it cuz he knows Carr’s soft and he don’t fear or respect him. Carr should have stepped to AB from the jump,,, this is my team you fall in line or your gone- it’s that simple.  You can’t be a leader and friends with a guy like AB.... it’s just like you can’t be friends with your work subordinates, the “cool boss” thing doesn’t work. There’s always guys like AB who stir dissent in the locker room and “rebel rouse” and it spreads fast.  People pick up on it fast.... we’re all animals who are wired to recognize the peaking order.

Back in the day and even today there were players who ran the locker room.  When someone acts up they’d come check them.... it was fall in line or a fight in the showers or “out back”.  

 

Yea...unfortunately I don’t think the culture changes until carr is gone. You can replace everyone around him but he can never re-establish himself because his reputation is too deeply engraved. Even max kellerman laughed at the thought of carr trying him. I bet me goody 2 shoes Tom Brady would get more respect from max even without the rings and even wearing some uggs.

another reason I didn’t want hr3. You can’t tell me hr3 and coop didn’t talk esp after he got drafted by us. What do you think Coop had to say about carr?

carr needs a change of scenery to try to press reset 

[NCOUGHMAN]

59 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

That’s a really good point I almost missed and never thought about before.  Derek definitely has the little brother complex.  He probably just wanted the approval of his older brother.... I mean who wouldn’t look up to a much older brother Whose the #1 pick?  

He cleaned up the family name. Just my 2cents. ESP how defensive the carr family is over dc.

[jimkelly02]

15 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

He cleaned up the family name. Just my 2cents. ESP how defensive the carr family is over dc.

He’s the epitome of the little brother.... he’s always protected got someone standing up for him lol.

[jimkelly02]

36 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Yea...unfortunately I don’t think the culture changes until carr is gone. You can replace everyone around him but he can never re-establish himself because his reputation is too deeply engraved. Even max kellerman laughed at the thought of carr trying him. I bet me goody 2 shoes Tom Brady would get more respect from max even without the rings and even wearing some uggs.

another reason I didn’t want hr3. You can’t tell me hr3 and coop didn’t talk esp after he got drafted by us. What do you think Coop had to say about carr?

carr needs a change of scenery to try to press reset 

That’s another great point I was going to add but we all know my posts are often long and sometimes even as long as they are I have ideas that I leave out.

yes.... players talks.  Whether it’s a ex-raider talking to a player we bring in or ex-players talking to guys from the same school or city.  A lot of players have little Clicks: like the Miami/ Broward country, etc etc born players.  They go home and workout or just stay in touch talking to one another.  

and yes you can’t cut everyone.... it’s just not plausible and like we just said even if you did it’d be nearly impossible to bring in all guys who have no contacts With ex-Raiders.  When FAs are thinking of going to A team they pick up the phone and call a player with first hand or second hand knowledge of the organization.

I support Carr heavily.... but I try to be a realist.  I’ll criticize him when i feel it’s due.  Honestly, I don’t think it’s that bad that we need to trade him.  It’s hard to find a new QB and there’s no guarantee he got the leadership and “ability to flip the switch”.  Until A situation comes up where we can move on from Carr and improve the team with little risk and not causing a rebuild I’m not keeping him.  But I acknowledge there’s just as many reasons to have the other point of view.  I feel the Carr debate like many others becomes very “partisan”.... it’s like politics: most people agree on most issues or are at least within a spectrum of agreement.  They have a side they are steadfast in their support of but also can acknowledge faults in their party and strengths in the opposition.   
 

Im Of the mindset that I’m tired of rebuilding and hold out hope that we can at least be a playoff team with a strong offseason.  I don’t want to take any moderate risks such as drafting a QB3 in the draft class.  So until a low risk high upside deal comes along (which prolly doesn’t happen) id rather  stay the course and keep Carr because I see it as a lesser risk albeit with low upside.  However, I’ve said it many times the timeline for Carr is very short.... like this year.  He’s a FA soon and either hes clearly the QB of this organization and we extend him early or we salvage what value he has left and move on. 

That said I really can’t fault your viewpoint..... when I add up all the positives and negatives it’s really really close.  And it’s nothing more than a bias or intuition or “mental coin flip “ as to which one I go with.

 

edit:

 oh btw.... if we keep Carr we have to be real careful who we bring in. We can’t have any player that would start any degree of problems and challenge Carr.  We also need to have “Carr Loyalists” who know he’s not a leader but nonetheless do his job of keeping order and pushing the other players to get their best outta them.

Edited February 12, 2021 by jimkelly02

[G]

6 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I agree with that 100%

I’ve seen some of the most quiet players flip that switch to savage levels. So I never underestimate the quiet types. 

you can’t teach that tho imo you’re  either built like that or your not. Unfortunately I don’t think carr is built like that. Imo he just wanted to do better than his brother which he succeeded at. 

I think seeing how his brother failed to be friends with his teammates is why he doesn't put them in check. TB12 had those vet Pat defenders to be alpha until he won enough trophies that if he got in your face you respected it and if you didn't one of those defenders would check you quick. Perfect storm for grooming a QB. In a way Carr had Mack's on field play and friendship off the field that it was like laying a game with your buddies and when that got taken away he didn't have what it takes and the losing really had his teammates not believing. Which is a differemt kind of storm. If Carr wins a trophy that respect will come AFTER but not before. He'd need to lite it up and be the reason why they got there and won. If he had stats like Brady the MVP goes to Jacobs probably.

[MrOaktown_56]

Guys keep it to football. Some good discourse here but let's not get personal.