Random Raider Stuff

[NCOUGHMAN]

7 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Guys keep it to football. Some good discourse here but let's not get personal.

Lololol 

[NCOUGHMAN]

16 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

That’s another great point I was going to add but we all know my posts are often long and sometimes even as long as they are I have ideas that I leave out.

yes.... players talks.  Whether it’s a ex-raider talking to a player we bring in or ex-players talking to guys from the same school or city.  A lot of players have little Clicks: like the Miami/ Broward country, etc etc born players.  They go home and workout or just stay in touch talking to one another.  

and yes you can’t cut everyone.... it’s just not plausible and like we just said even if you did it’d be nearly impossible to bring in all guys who have no contacts With ex-Raiders.  When FAs are thinking of going to A team they pick up the phone and call a player with first hand or second hand knowledge of the organization.

I support Carr heavily.... but I try to be a realist.  I’ll criticize him when i feel it’s due.  Honestly, I don’t think it’s that bad that we need to trade him.  It’s hard to find a new QB and there’s no guarantee he got the leadership and “ability to flip the switch”.  Until A situation comes up where we can move on from Carr and improve the team with little risk and not causing a rebuild I’m not keeping him.  But I acknowledge there’s just as many reasons to have the other point of view.  I feel the Carr debate like many others becomes very “partisan”.... it’s like politics: most people agree on most issues or are at least within a spectrum of agreement.  They have a side they are steadfast in their support of but also can acknowledge faults in their party and strengths in the opposition.   
 

Im Of the mindset that I’m tired of rebuilding and hold out hope that we can at least be a playoff team with a strong offseason.  I don’t want to take any moderate risks such as drafting a QB3 in the draft class.  So until a low risk high upside deal comes along (which prolly doesn’t happen) id rather  stay the course and keep Carr because I see it as a lesser risk albeit with low upside.  However, I’ve said it many times the timeline for Carr is very short.... like this year.  He’s a FA soon and either hes clearly the QB of this organization and we extend him early or we salvage what value he has left and move on. 

That said I really can’t fault your viewpoint..... when I add up all the positives and negatives it’s really really close.  And it’s nothing more than a bias or intuition or “mental coin flip “ as to which one I go with.

 

edit:

 oh btw.... if we keep Carr we have to be real careful who we bring in. We can’t have any player that would start any degree of problems and challenge Carr.  We also need to have “Carr Loyalists” who know he’s not a leader but nonetheless do his job of keeping order and pushing the other players to get their best outta them.

Yea I’m kinda tired of walking on eggshells with carr. Like you say you have to hand pick guys to surround him with to ensure he can mesh with them. Tired oh he needs more time to develop chemistry. F that just get the job done. 
 

watching that Charles Woodson interview and he said “it’s no way I left mich without a national chip” and “it’s no way I retire from the nfl without a ring”. 
 

that’s the kind of championship mentality that’s gets you respect

[jimkelly02]

7 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Yea I’m kinda tired of walking on eggshells with carr. Like you say you have to hand pick guys to surround him with to ensure he can mesh with them. Tired oh he needs more time to develop chemistry. F that just get the job done. 
 

watching that Charles Woodson interview and he said “it’s no way I left mich without a national chip” and “it’s no way I retire from the nfl without a ring”. 
 

that’s the kind of championship mentality that’s gets you respect

Well I said if you want him to grow into that alpha leader you need to clear out the guys who know that’s not him and bring in guys who aren’t trouble makers or will really challenge him. that’s a bit different then “hand picking players”.

nonetheless... I get your point.

I just don’t think there’s but 3-4 QBs in the league who’d have turned these past teams into a winning team.  I mean we’ve had so trash rosters.  I’m not advocating “give Carr one more chance”... I’m just saying idk makes those teams winners.

I also don’t feel the need to advocate for Carr because I 95% see him as being the QB next year.  There’s not a bunch of realistic options where he isn’t.

[NCOUGHMAN]

38 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Well I said if you want him to grow into that alpha leader you need to clear out the guys who know that’s not him and bring in guys who aren’t trouble makers or will really challenge him. that’s a bit different then “hand picking players”.

nonetheless... I get your point.

I just don’t think there’s but 3-4 QBs in the league who’d have turned these past teams into a winning team.  I mean we’ve had so trash rosters.  I’m not advocating “give Carr one more chance”... I’m just saying idk makes those teams winners.

I also don’t feel the need to advocate for Carr because I 95% see him as being the QB next year.  There’s not a bunch of realistic options where he isn’t.

I guess I’m getting old back in the day you had to earn that “c” patch. We also used to hit for certain Jersey #’s.
 

I agree carr will 95% be here next year and I just hope and pray we keep getting better. 

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I guess I’m getting old back in the day you had to earn that “c” patch. We also used to hit for certain Jersey #’s.
 

I agree carr will 95% be here next year and I just hope and pray we keep getting better. 

I agree.... it seems like today it’s just given to the QB and the better players regardless of leadership.  It’s sad.  I’d rather have a non-bi polar Incognito type of player be one of 2-3 captains then just give it to your QB and best other player.

[big_palooka]

40+ players showed up to a practice Derek Carr planned over the summer when teams couldn't organize for official activities. He's been touted for his leadership by multiple teammates. 

This ridiculous notion you have to be an alpha to be a leader is stupid. 

There are going to be bad apples on any team. In case of the Raiders defense, there is a leadership void. They are young and nobody has established a voice there. 

The offense clearly reflects Carrs leadership.

[NCOUGHMAN]

10 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

I agree.... it seems like today it’s just given to the QB and the better players regardless of leadership.  It’s sad.  I’d rather have a non-bi polar Incognito type of player be one of 2-3 captains then just give it to your QB and best other player.

As a coach I picked captains based on respect that was earned in the offseason not participation. Captains don’t need to be told to check the team they check guys everyday and Hold people accountable. You’re only as good as your weakest link. if someone has a issue they knew the captain isn’t a punk. Players need to check players constantly. Iron sharpens iron.

 

I believe in “I’d rather be feared than loved” fear imo goes farther than love. I also believe “a smart man can play dumb but a dumb man can’t play smart” replace them with “tough” and “soft” etc

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

40+ players showed up to a practice Derek Carr planned over the summer when teams couldn't organize for official activities. He's been touted for his leadership by multiple teammates. 

This ridiculous notion you have to be an alpha to be a leader is stupid. 

There are going to be bad apples on any team. In case of the Raiders defense, there is a leadership void. They are young and nobody has established a voice there. 

The offense clearly reflects Carrs leadership.

Yea but what’s the use if guys come out half serious and walking through routes like hr3. Participation points are cool when it’s pop Warner. 
 

name a leader esp at qb that’s not a alpha? 

[Jerry]

5 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

As a coach I picked captains based on respect that was earned in the offseason not participation. Captains don’t need to be told to check the team they check guys everyday and Hold people accountable. You’re only as good as your weakest link. if someone has a issue they knew the captain isn’t a punk. Players need to check players constantly. Iron sharpens iron.

 

I believe in “I’d rather be feared than loved” fear imo goes farther than love. I also believe “a smart man can play dumb but a dumb man can’t play smart” replace them with “tough” and “soft” etc

I don't agree.  Ray Lewis and Peyton Manning were carried to the SB during their last years in the league.  It really depends on the level of love.  The players around them were going to kill to get them there IMO.

[big_palooka]

22 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Yea but what’s the use if guys come out half serious and walking through routes like hr3. Participation points are cool when it’s pop Warner. 
 

name a leader esp at qb that’s not a alpha? 

Depends on your definition of "alpha". Which in the context you and @jimkelly02 are using it seems to be that to be "alpha" you have assert dominance. That leadership requires intimidation and fear. Or you need to be willing to fight to establish respect. This, very cliché garbage is what's lead to generations of insecure, entitled, men.

Being alpha, comes down to confidence. Confidence in ones self and abilities. Most QBs on a professional level are alpha because they have complete confidence in their ability to play the game. They believe they can succeed in any spot you put them into. On any team.

The truly elite QBs like Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes... they embody that confidence at the highest level. They've won at the highest level. They've earned the respect and players love to play for them because they want to taste that success too. That is what an alpha is.

Mahomes as an example is an alpha. In no way is he confrontational. He doesn't lead with intimidation. He doesn't work to make teammates fear him. He's confident. He works tirelessly on every aspect of his game. He steps on the field knowing he's the best through hard work and preparation. His teammates feed off that energy. 

The thought that being "alpha" means fear, intimidation, dominance is an out of date and out of touch. This out dated view is why guys have a problem with Carr. Because he's a man of faith, he's looked at as soft, to nice, subservient, etc. and therefore can't be "alpha".

 

[NYRaider]

On 2/13/2021 at 5:10 AM, big_palooka said:

The offense clearly reflects Carrs leadership.

True. And his leadership played a big role in our team falling apart down the stretch in both 2019 and 2020. 

Last year we were 6-3 with the easiest remaining schedule in the league and then proceeded to finish 8-8. 

In those final fantasy 6 games of 2020:

Atlanta: Scored 6 points in a blow out lost against a bottom feeding team. 

New York: Scored 24 points against another bottom feeder and would've lost if the Jets didn't intentionally throw the game at the end. 

Indianapolis: Scored 20 points until the garbage time TD to bring it to 27. 

Miami: Scored 25 points and failed to finish on a few drives that would've won us the game. 

Denver: Scored 24 points and had 4 TO and would've lost to another bottom feeder if Vic Fangio didn't completely drop the ball at the end of the game. 

We started 6-4 in 2019 and finished 8-8.

In those final 6 games we averaged 14.6 ppg, failed to scored a TD in two of those games, and only scored a total of 8 TD over a 6 game period while we were in the playoff hunt.

Edited February 14, 2021 by NYRaider

[NCOUGHMAN]

26 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

True. And his leadership played a big role in our team falling apart down the stretch in both 2019 and 2020. 

Last year we were 6-3 with the easiest remaining schedule in the league and then proceeded to finish 8-8. 

In those final fantasy 6 games of 2020:

Atlanta: Scored 6 points in a blow out lost against a bottom feeding team. 

New York: Scored 24 points against another bottom feeder and would've lost if the Jets didn't intentionally throw the game at the end. 

Indianapolis: Scored 20 points until the garbage time TD to bring it to 27. 

Miami: Scored 25 points and failed to finish on a few drives that would've won us the game. 

Denver: Scored 24 points and had 4 TO and would've lost to another bottom feeder if Vic Fangio didn't completely drop the ball at the end of the game. 

We started 6-4 in 2019 and finished 8-8.

In those final 6 games we averaged 14.6 ppg, failed to scored a TD in two of those games, and only scored a total of 8 TD over a 6 game period while we were in the playoff hunt.

This. Dam that 14pt/gm 2nd half of the season 🤦🏽‍♂️ Is rough

[NYRaider]

9 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

This. Dam that 14pt/gm 2nd half of the season 🤦🏽‍♂️ Is rough

I was listening to a podcast and they made an interesting point comparing Gruden to Andy Reid during his Philadelphia days. They said that one of Reid's biggest issues was that he would always open up his entire playbook way too early in the year so teams had film on everything they liked to do by the final stretch season. 

Is that something Gruden is struggling with as well? 

2019 (1st 10 games | 6-4): 22.5 ppg

2019 (Last 6 games | 1-5): 14.6 ppg

2020 (1st 10 games | 6-4): 28.6 ppg

2020 (Last 6 games | 2-4): 24.6 ppg

During the first 10 games of this season we scored 30+ 6 times. In the final 6 games we only scored 30+ twice and those games were against the Jets and Broncos, two bottom feeding teams, that legitimately threw the game at the end to let us score so they could win. 

If Greg Williams doesn't make one of the worst coaching cals in NFL history to allow us to get to 31 and Fangio doesn't completely drop the ball by calling a timeout to let us get to 32, our scoring average over the last 6 would've been 22.1 ppg. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by NYRaider

[NCOUGHMAN]

49 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I was listening to a podcast and they made an interesting point comparing Gruden to Andy Reid during his Philadelphia days. They said that one of Reid's biggest issues was that he would always open up his entire playbook way too early in the year so teams had film on everything they liked to do by the final stretch season. 

Is that something Gruden is struggling with as well? 

2019 (1st 10 games | 6-4): 22.5 ppg

2019 (Last 6 games | 1-5): 14.6 ppg

2020 (1st 10 games | 6-4): 28.6 ppg

2020 (Last 6 games | 2-4): 24.6 ppg

During the first 10 games of this season we scored 30+ 6 times. In the final 6 games we only scored 30+ twice and those games were against the Jets and Broncos, two bottom feeding teams, that legitimately threw the game at the end to let us score so they could win. 

If Greg Williams doesn't make one of the worst coaching cals in NFL history to allow us to get to 31 and Fangio doesn't completely drop the ball by calling a timeout to let us get to 32, our scoring average over the last 6 would've been 22.1 ppg. 

I’m done with carr, gruden and mike tbh. Only reason gruden and mike have a longer leach is cause they haven’t been here as long as carr. 

[jimkelly02]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Depends on your definition of "alpha". Which in the context you and @jimkelly02 are using it seems to be that to be "alpha" you have assert dominance. That leadership requires intimidation and fear. Or you need to be willing to fight to establish respect. This, very cliché garbage is what's lead to generations of insecure, entitled, men.

Being alpha, comes down to confidence. Confidence in ones self and abilities. Most QBs on a professional level are alpha because they have complete confidence in their ability to play the game. They believe they can succeed in any spot you put them into. On any team.

The truly elite QBs like Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Mahomes... they embody that confidence at the highest level. They've won at the highest level. They've earned the respect and players love to play for them because they want to taste that success too. That is what an alpha is.

Mahomes as an example is an alpha. In no way is he confrontational. He doesn't lead with intimidation. He doesn't work to make teammates fear him. He's confident. He works tirelessly on every aspect of his game. He steps on the field knowing he's the best through hard work and preparation. His teammates feed off that energy. 

The thought that being "alpha" means fear, intimidation, dominance is an out of date and out of touch. This out dated view is why guys have a problem with Carr. Because he's a man of faith, he's looked at as soft, to nice, subservient, etc. and therefore can't be "alpha".

 

Please stop including me in this discussion.  I’ve expressed my desire NOT to continue this discussion with you .... several times and @MrOaktown_56has warned both of us to discontinue the discussion given the inability to conduct it within the boards rules.  I’ll say it one last time : I’m choosing not to engage with you in future discussions on THIS specific topic.  Even after the moderator warned us both You still feel the need to throw in aggressive, insulting language such as “garbage” (Because to you any viewpoint that isn’t yours is “garbage”) in an attempt to bait me back into the discussion.  I’ll say it one last time:  your level of discussion, that’s basically a snob’s version of trolling, doesn’t interest me in the least.  I let my ego and pride pull me into a conversation with a bad actor.  That was a mistake.... one which I’m wise enough To walk away from at this time.

But I’ll leave this for the rest of the readers to consider:

There are two types of kids on the playground after a dispute:

The one kid who comes home and his mother hugs him tight and asks “who did this to you?” Then she calls the other kids mother.  The other kid is the one who comes home to a father who asks “who started it?” And then gives the silent nod of approval and respect.  I want my QB/Team Leader to be the second kid what about you?