Star Wars Episode I is the best of the Prequels

[Deadpulse]

5 hours ago, Breesus mode said:

 

And also this. Ideas are cool and all, but they're never fleshed out by Lucas in the movies.

I always found this strange. The entire idea of the prequels was the development of a character from the light to Vader. Despite this, there is NO character development to speak of. Sure, things happen to him where you can sit there and think, man that must suck. However, none of those events directly effect his decision making down the road. What we get is a series of bad things and we are expected to make this leap that he turns on everyone he loves simply because a bunch of bad stuff happened that is unrelated. 

[MKnight82]

3 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

Not only is Episode I not the best prequel movie, it's the worst Star Wars movie period. It's pure garbage. 5 minutes of Darth Maul, one cool fight and a make believe story about Jar Jar being an evil mastermind is not something to bolster up.

Disagree, Episode II is far and away the worst Star Wars movie IMO.  

[MKnight82]

3 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

I always found this strange. The entire idea of the prequels was the development of a character from the light to Vader. Despite this, there is NO character development to speak of. Sure, things happen to him where you can sit there and think, man that must suck. However, none of those events directly effect his decision making down the road. What we get is a series of bad things and we are expected to make this leap that he turns on everyone he loves simply because a bunch of bad stuff happened that is unrelated. 

That's what happens when you pair a poor screenwriter like Lucas with Hayden Christensen.  Seriously though, Lucas is a genius at special effects and creating a new "universe" with its own lore and such.  But his dialogue is awful and there's no real character development in any of the 6 original Star Wars movies.  

[Deadpulse]

39 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

But his dialogue is awful and there's no real character development in any of the 6 original Star Wars movies.  

I am now searching my mind frantically for instances of good character development in the OT and I am having more trouble than I would have thought. Most of Han's development comes during his "courting" of Leia which is more or less time skipped in sky city. Most of Luke's development also takes place off screen between Empire and RotJ. Leia pretty much stays the same throughout. 

The only instances that stand out to me is Ben's sacrifice teaching Luke that adventures are not fun and games and he is much more focused from that point on. The weird force vision quest he goes on in Empire is okay (at best) development, showing him how easy it would be to turn which offers him some perspective for dealing with Vader in RotJ. 

[Spartacus]

6 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

Not only is Episode I not the best prequel movie, it's the worst Star Wars movie period. It's pure garbage. 5 minutes of Darth Maul, one cool fight and a make believe story about Jar Jar being an evil mastermind is not something to bolster up.

Eh episode 2 was way worse. The totally forced love scenes were so cringeworthy. I've seen more convincing couples in pornos. 

[thrILL!]

18 hours ago, Breesus mode said:

Amazing, everything you just wrote is completely wrong. ESPECIALLY the bold. (And I will fight you on that).

Your response is on the left.  My post is in the middle.  

 

[Thelonebillsfan]

9 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

I am now searching my mind frantically for instances of good character development in the OT and I am having more trouble than I would have thought. Most of Han's development comes during his "courting" of Leia which is more or less time skipped in sky city. Most of Luke's development also takes place off screen between Empire and RotJ. Leia pretty much stays the same throughout. 

The only instances that stand out to me is Ben's sacrifice teaching Luke that adventures are not fun and games and he is much more focused from that point on. The weird force vision quest he goes on in Empire is okay (at best) development, showing him how easy it would be to turn which offers him some perspective for dealing with Vader in RotJ. 

Not every story needs traditional character development. IMO. Luke's development is a spiritual journey, it's within, so naturally we don't really see the external events that define and alter his character from the naive farmboy at the start of ANH. Because it's not the point, really. Star Wars is a story about a group of people saving the galaxy, the OT is so good and so compelling because it gives you insight into the characters through actions and the momentum of the narrative. Luke's development is told through the transition and framing of scenes, the set design, his wardrobe, the films themselves tell his story so that we can infer these details and changes. They act in service to one another. Though not as much in RotJ and that's why it's the weakest one. But even in ANH, we're shown and implied throughout the film that Han Solo is a grifter, he doesn't care for anybody but himself and his ship, so him coming back to save Luke is that moment, you see he's changed. And ESB is more about the interplay of the characters and the forces at play, less about development and growth until the very end of the last reel.

Whereas in the PT, the films actively clash against the characters and the story. Stuff exists because it looks cool, not to set a thematic representation of a character or a scene. The fight with Darth Maul is the perfect encapsulation of that. You don't learn anything from the fight, you don't feel anything from the fight (and with the Dooku fight as well), the characters have no vested involvement in the fight other than "he's the bad guy we have to kill". And the sets aren't Cloud City or the Death Star, where everything is shadows and the play on the lighting dictates the struggle, how the darkness has overwhelmed the light until Luke came. Instead it's a bunch of pretty looking but soulless places that mean literally nothing. Why is the last fight in EPIII on Mustaphar? Because Lucas decided Lava was how Vader's body got all messed up so they needed a lava planet. You could set the fight in any random generic hallway and you'd feel the same sense of setting and tone from it because the setting doesn't matter other than because the plot says "this is where they fight".

I really don't like anything, structurally, about most of the PT because nothing about it acts in service to it's other parts. It all exists in the most corporate sanitized "look cool ****!" way imaginable to sell toys and merch and it's so empty that it's an immense waste of a lot of visual effects talent and quality actors given pretty much nothing to do.

[Breesus mode]

6 hours ago, thrILL! said:

Your response is on the left.  My post is in the middle.  

 

Have you even watched The Clone Wars?

[KManX89]

On 12/21/2018 at 9:42 AM, Deadpulse said:

I always found this strange. The entire idea of the prequels was the development of a character from the light to Vader. Despite this, there is NO character development to speak of. Sure, things happen to him where you can sit there and think, man that must suck. However, none of those events directly effect his decision making down the road. What we get is a series of bad things and we are expected to make this leap that he turns on everyone he loves simply because a bunch of bad stuff happened that is unrelated. 

Actually, he was duped into believing Padme would die in childbirth and only Palpatine's Sith powers could save her, remember? Though I'm pretty sure Palpatine planted those visions in his head. 

It was still largely devoid of character development in a series that should've had plenty of it, though.

[Deadpulse]

1 hour ago, KManX89 said:

Actually, he was duped into believing Padme would die in childbirth and only Palpatine's Sith powers could save her, remember? Though I'm pretty sure Palpatine planted those visions in his head. 

Right but how does get to the point where doing and going against everything he has believed, been taught, and done in the past is worth it to save her? What leads him to the point of rationalizing that? The motivation and reasoning behind these decisions isnt there even before we consider that their "love" wasnt developed at all either, so the audience cant even understand it on that level. 

As a guy who, at this point we already know gets a redemption arc, Anakin/Vader should have been painted as a sympathetic character who, at least at first, is making the wrong choices for good reasons. Then when he loses those reasons he was fighting for and has already turned his back on everything else good in his life, only then does he go off the deep end. Instead we got a flip of the switch and a narrative so bungled we didnt even care about the character before breaking bad suddenly. 

[INbengalfan]

4 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

Right but how does get to the point where doing and going against everything he has believed, been taught, and done in the past is worth it to save her? What leads him to the point of rationalizing that? The motivation and reasoning behind these decisions isnt there even before we consider that their "love" wasnt developed at all either, so the audience cant even understand it on that level. 

As a guy who, at this point we already know gets a redemption arc, Anakin/Vader should have been painted as a sympathetic character who, at least at first, is making the wrong choices for good reasons. Then when he loses those reasons he was fighting for and has already turned his back on everything else good in his life, only then does he go off the deep end. Instead we got a flip of the switch and a narrative so bungled we didnt even care about the character before breaking bad suddenly. 

As for the first paragraph, I think it goes back to EpII where he had similar visions of his mother's death.  Those turned out to be accurate, but he got there too late.  Then in Ep III, it is clear to the audience that Palpatine planted the images of Padme, as they looked slightly different in his dreams.  He feared losing her, so he acts to save her, right up to the point of getting Mace killed/injured.  He clearly puts her above all else, and makes his choice begrudgingly after making the choice to save Palpatine to save her later on.  One bad choice after anotjher leads him down the path, not just one all out decision to turn his back on the Jedi.  

 

I think I addressed your second paragraph, as I don't think he chose to turn on everything.  he made a choice to put Padme above everyone else, and got himself boxed in.  he's still yopung and impulsive enough to fall into the fear trap again, as he now has inadvertently led to the death of Mace (or so he thinks).

[Deadpulse]

1 hour ago, INbengalfan said:

he made a choice to put Padme above everyone else, and got himself boxed in.

But why?

[fretgod99]

Liam Neeson is the best actor in a trilogy that also has Sir Christopher Lee in it? I don’t even know how to respond to that...

[skywindO2]

I don't like midichlorians and hate their introduction in it. 

[Mr Bad Example]

On 12/19/2018 at 7:06 PM, Fresh Prince said:

Theres a good movie between the 3 somewhere. 

Oh, yeah, the scene in AotC where the Jedi show up to rescue Anakin and Padme.....absolute goosebumps. Yoda, as always, is a delightful character (who DIDN'T love him in TLJ - "ah, young Skywalker....missed you I have!")

Honestly, the biggest misstep was having Ep 1 be all this bollocks and having the execution of the Jedi be a 10 minute montage. The betrayal of the Jedi should've been enough grist for at least one full movie in and of itself. Plus I hate the narrative cheat of, if you watch them in chronological order, Vader's reveal that he is Anakin in ESB is like "well, duh" when it could have EASILY been maintained, even though it's seeped into the firmament and everyone knows it by osmosis; as a filmmaker, I'd be like "I don't CARE, dammit, I want that moment to be a f*ckin' REVEAL whether or not everyone knows it"