MacReady Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Just now, Gopher Trace said: That's hyperbole, and you know it. But hey, that's the culture here -- gotta be the smartest guy in the thread/forum, whatever it takes, no bad-faith tactics are off the table! That said, all parts on the team affect each other. It's not that Luck is simply back from injury and presents an upgrade over Brissett. It's that he's back, and no longer getting battered by pass-rushers for the first time in his career, and has a coach who is putting them in positions to be effective. And one part of that equation was made possible courtesy a rookie -- that is smart, effective use of draft capital. It's fair to say one player can effect the mentality of an offensive line, but it's not fair to say that it's not necessarily Nelson? Going from Brissett to Luck and not giving some credit to Luck for knowing where his protections are/etc isn't fair? Suggesting Glowinski had as much to do with the turnaround isn't fair? Quenton Nelson didn't suddenly join the Colts and make the exact same thing better. He joined a team that added two new starters to the OL, he replaced an undrafted free agent who currently is not on a team, he joined two other starters on the OL, he joined a new head coach and an elite level QB. Giving him all the credit is ridiculous, and you know it. And the proof of draft capital and positional value is right on the Colt's roster. Glowinski = 4th round. Nelson = 6th overall. Nearly identical ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redt Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 4 hours ago, Gopher Trace said: That's hyperbole, and you know it. But hey, that's the culture here -- gotta be the smartest guy in the thread/forum, whatever it takes, no bad-faith tactics are off the table! That said, all parts on the team affect each other. It's not that Luck is simply back from injury and presents an upgrade over Brissett. It's that he's back, and no longer getting battered by pass-rushers for the first time in his career, and has a coach who is putting them in positions to be effective. And one part of that equation was made possible courtesy a rookie -- that is smart, effective use of draft capital. You need to compare the value of upgrading an average guard to the value of upgrading a different spot on that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Nelson has played OK, but the only reason he's in the Pro Bowl is because people can't name many G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, spilltray said: Nelson has played OK, but the only reason he's in the Pro Bowl is because people can't name many G. McKay, Dell, Tyler, Spanky, Fitzpatrick, Sitton and Lang. Yep, you only remember the good ones. That's why we need upgrades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spilltray Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 31 minutes ago, cannondale said: McKay, Dell, Tyler, Spanky, Fitzpatrick, Sitton and Lang. Yep, you only remember the good ones. That's why we need upgrades It takes most G a couple seasons of high level play for a G to become a recognized name. Nelson already has the profile as a high draft pick and that has more to do with him making a pro bowl than his play. Remember how bad Jeff Saturday was here? He made the Pro Bowl that year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Trace Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 On 12/23/2018 at 1:06 PM, Outpost31 said: It's fair to say one player can effect the mentality of an offensive line, but it's not fair to say that it's not necessarily Nelson? Going from Brissett to Luck and not giving some credit to Luck for knowing where his protections are/etc isn't fair? Suggesting Glowinski had as much to do with the turnaround isn't fair? Quenton Nelson didn't suddenly join the Colts and make the exact same thing better. He joined a team that added two new starters to the OL, he replaced an undrafted free agent who currently is not on a team, he joined two other starters on the OL, he joined a new head coach and an elite level QB. Giving him all the credit is ridiculous, and you know it. And the proof of draft capital and positional value is right on the Colt's roster. Glowinski = 4th round. Nelson = 6th overall. Nearly identical ratings. How is that your takeaway from what I posted? I said quite clearly that football, being a team game, is one where all parts affect each other and all of them are key contributors. In no way did I give Nelson all the credit. And seriously, **** the PFF ratings. Saying that makes me sound like I am just objecting now that PFF is inconvenient to me, but the truth is, I've been negative about them since they first came around. I'll be charitable and imagine there are some sound, sensible uses for their ratings (although I have sure yet to see it), but their effect on discourse between fans has been terrible. Substitute "PFF" with "Madden rating" and that is pretty much what it has been reduced to now, when the reality of players and teamwork is way, way more complicated than whatever stupid number they reduce it to (then again, that's the hellscape we live in as a society with respect to people and organizations, so I guess I should not be surprised that virus would infect our sports). Nope, sorry, PFF does not prove that Justin McCray would have been only somewhat worse Quenton Nelson for cheaper in the exact same circumstances, it only proves (to the extent it proves anything at all) how good he has been in his own circumstances, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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