Steelers vs. Saints GDT

[Shady Slim]

shady slim is the king of the keep tomlin camp and i think he’s a top 5-10 head coach

so unless you guys are gonna get a change.org going that can sway andy reid to come over and work with mason rudolph anyone saying ship tomlin off is a bad opinion haver™️

[3rivers]

I am more for changes in the drafting dept and GM, but tomlin doesn't get a pass from me anyways. Not many coaches do, but that's the way this league is and has been for a long time.  I don't know about firing tomlin, there are too many others to blame, but the locker room could have been kept in check and that includes ben.  

[jebrick]

10 hours ago, 3rivers said:

The OC was great when Connor was in there, but once Bell's made it past his deadline, things changes and then Connor got hurt. I still think Ben has too much say in the offence but will we ever know and will it ever changer for good? 

If they fire tom lion and hire Arians, then we will know 

Are you saying that injuries hurt the team?  That is what happens.

 

The Steelers have a depth problem that they have had for a long time.  It is Ben's fault too.  They have been too successful for too long while paying a franchise QB.  Top end talent is good but depth is hurting.

[warfelg]

13 hours ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

?

Tomlin has made the same mistakes for years yet you keep wanting to deflect to everybody else(including the cap guy).

Everyome has a part but this man just put the season on his 3rd string cold RB and the freaking FB.

It's not deflecting.  It's the fact that this isn't the Pittsburgh Tomlins, it's the Pittsburgh Steelers.  If you are going to talk about issues with the team, anyone that has a hand in shaping this team is part of the problem.  I've acknowledged that he has issues, but I keep asking (with no answer BTW) who this perfect coach is that has 0 flaws, is 100% on going for it, challenges, and never gave up a point?  Tomlin isn't perfect, but he sure as hell isn't as bad as you and others pretend he is.

Putting the season on the 4th RB and a good FB?  First off shouldn't the 4th running back thing be on the full organization for not having a better running back for him to go to?  This is the type of crap I'm talking about.  You placing the blame on Tomlin over the fact that he's down Conner, Samuels isn't a between the tackles running, and he doesn't have a better option.  If you want to rip him for not putting Ben in a 5 wide and letting Ben win/lose the game for you? I'm 1000% percent behind it.  But once the decision was made to run it, who else should be there?

As for the RB thing....let's say it was a fake from the start.  I bet it had an option and a tell, and that option/tell was the motion.  Guy doesn't go with the option man and it's the direct snap pass, and if he does it's a direct snap and run.  And let's not forget the fact that if Chickilo pushed rather than try to pull off the defender Nix very likely makes it.  There's Matakavich getting blown up hardcore.

Quote

The defense was playing well so either just punt the ball and make em go 80 yards or if you wanna go for the throat, go put the ball in 7s hands on4th and 5 and go from there.

Yet...a FB dive...on 4th and 5...on your side of the field...”I wanted to be aggressive”...how about smart mike.

And if he punts and Brees scores with no time left what's the derogatory comments about Tomlin then?

Quote

As CK said, he’s the head honcho.

Im not sure what Tomlin brings to this team...honestly, tell me?

Its not great schemes, out of the box thinking, great personnel decisions...or even a great motivator with the team perpetually playing down to level of competition.

I would argue that he's a good schemer, but hasn't had great players who can pull it off.  He's had success before, namely last year doubling Hill and Kelce, this year doubling Gronk and Edelman.  Not as many coaches do 'outside the box' thinking as you think there are.  Great personnel decisions?  Isn't that what we have a GM for?

And calling him not a great motivator is fair, as I have said in the past, but how many teams would continually win with all the drama that has followed this team the last 5-6 years? See I can be on board with the knocks on games against sub-par teams, but some things still bother me.  Like the fact that he's weathered stuff like AB FBliving a post game closed door meeting, Bell and Blount smoking pot, multiple Bell suspensions, Brown's off field antics, Ben pulling a will he or won't he retire for the last 3 years, Bell sitting out last training camp, Bell sitting out this year.  I mean...that's quite a bit to deal with and Tomlin never let it destroy the team.  Heck, look at only 1 other coach able to do that: Belichick.  

[warfelg]

13 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Are you saying that injuries hurt the team?  That is what happens.

 

The Steelers have a depth problem that they have had for a long time.  It is Ben's fault too.  They have been too successful for too long while paying a franchise QB.  Top end talent is good but depth is hurting.

This gets so lost in the shuffle.  

2018 bad losses:

Oakland - Ben doesn't play a half

Denver - 41/56 462 1 TD, 2 INT

Cleveland (Tie) - 23/41 335 1 TD, 3 INT

1/3 of INT's in 2 of his games, both against 'bad' teams.

2017 bad loss:

Bears - 22/39 235 1 TD

2016 bad losses:

Eagles - 22/44 257 0 TD, 1 INT

Dolphins - 19/34 189 1 TD 2 INT

 

I'd go back further but I think the picture is clear.  Yes we lose to bad teams, but it's not all because of Tomlin.  Ben plays like crap too.  And I've said it before, if a grown man needs another grown man to tell him to get excited to play bad teams that he should feast on, its on the player not the coach.

[jebrick]

I will say that Bradshaw was the same as Ben.  A Gunslinger.  You get what you get.

When Tomlin is replaced/retires, I would like to see a clean break.  Hire a coach who can do what they think is best.  Replace any/all coaches.  That is what Cowher did and it breathed new life into the team.

 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, jebrick said:

I will say that Bradshaw was the same as Ben.  A Gunslinger.  You get what you get.

When Tomlin is replaced/retires, I would like to see a clean break.  Hire a coach who can do what they think is best.  Replace any/all coaches.  That is what Cowher did and it breathed new life into the team.

 

And I think it’s the mistake they made with Tomlin. They 100% assumed they were going to to hire Wiz or Grimm, and Tomlin blew them away (who they only brought in to satisfy their own rule FWIW). But because they already made assurances to most the staff, Tomlin didn’t really get his chance to put much of his staff in at the start (and could argue he still hasn’t). 

[CKSteeler]

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

And I think it’s the mistake they made with Tomlin. They 100% assumed they were going to to hire Wiz or Grimm, and Tomlin blew them away (who they only brought in to satisfy their own rule FWIW). But because they already made assurances to most the staff, Tomlin didn’t really get his chance to put much of his staff in at the start (and could argue he still hasn’t). 

They kept most of Cowher's staff because they were a year removed from a Super Bowl and weren't looking for a complete overhaul. But it's pretty laughable to me that here we are 11 years later and you're acting as if poor old Mike was just held back by this franchise. He's gone from being a potted plant we can't blame for anything to a guy who is an active victim. If only he were allowed to dig deep into his coaching history and bring his own people in we'd have seen some real innovation on defense compared to that pesky 3-4 Lebeau ran to such success.

Butler is here because Tomlin wants him here. Especially several seasons in. Any argument to the contrary defies all logic. The continued attempt to put this up as a defense of Tomlin is really the only proof needed to show that we're dealing with an apologist here and nothing more.

And as for the attempts to trash Colbert? The guy who fell on his sword all of a week ago to protect Tomlin after the Oakland debacle?

"We should win it all. I sense that about the group. In terms of talent, in terms of having enough competition, depth, I think we check all those boxes."

There's Tomlin volunteering his own assessment of his team's talent and overall roster construction - a process he has heavy say in to begin with.

[muncher]

this team just needs a fresh, new rah rah guy.

no differen than when tomlin took over for cowher

the team has heard all of his gibberish. i truly believe the team likes him but that only goes so far. a new voice with a few new ideas, a new defense philosophy and speeches will bring excitement and hope to the fan base, organization and especially the players. except for the racists and the fans happy with being able to say, 'we never finished below 500 or we have only had 3 coaches in X years'.,nobody should be able to look at the way this team has fallen and under performed during the post seasons once cowhers player have left. we can win a super bowl with tomlin. we have already had superior talent for the majority of his time here and can t get it done. so many seasons pissed away with this cheerleader

[Displayname]

I don’t think Tomlin is going anywhere until Ben is done or If Ben wants him out. Judging by history, they stuck with chuck and billy through dark times and we really haven’t had those type of dark times. As it’s been stated, Tomlin has flaws. There are worst coaches out there. Tomlin gets bashed worst then the 8-8 Jason Garrett’s.

i think the front office is more concerning then him. Giving a player a tag threaten to sit and did when we’re missing pieces on defense. We didn’t miss him, we missed the opportunity to possibly improve in other areas. Granted, we weren’t drafting at high picks, but it’s been pretty trashy. It’s still left to be decided on those recent ones outside of juju, Conner, and Watt. I understand  the tradition that the steelers like, but why not let Tomlin get his guy for D coordinator? I think graves could be our best pass rusher in recent memory if the scheme changed.

the player they did miss, shazier. He was the heartbeat and our best playmaker on defense.

 

 

[3rivers]

25 minutes ago, Displayname said:

i think the front office is more concerning then him. Giving a player a tag threaten to sit and did when we’re missing pieces on defense. We didn’t miss him, we missed the opportunity to possibly improve in other areas. Granted, we weren’t drafting at high picks, but it’s been pretty trashy. It’s still left to be decided on those recent ones outside of juju, Conner, and Watt. I understand  the tradition that the steelers like, but why not let Tomlin get his guy for D coordinator? I think graves could be our best pass rusher in recent memory if the scheme changed.

the player they did miss, shazier. He was the heartbeat and our best playmaker on defense.

 

the bold is why I never liked it when colbert gave bell the franchise this year. As for shazier, they missed him and could have moved up a spot to draft Evans, who is turning into the hype into reality. That was a mistake letting him go 1 spot ahead in the draft  , right there before our pick ready for a trade to move up, Colbert doesn't make the move.

[jebrick]

Bell played the Steelers and his teammates.  He said he was going to report after sitting out training camp.  He was coming in week 2 or week 6 or week 8.  I do not blame this season on Bell or on Colbert.  The Steelers were not going to sign $15M worth of defensive players.  It is not how they roll.  They are about as conservative and risk adverse of an organization as you can get.

[Displayname]

12 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Bell played the Steelers and his teammates.  He said he was going to report after sitting out training camp.  He was coming in week 2 or week 6 or week 8.  I do not blame this season on Bell or on Colbert.  The Steelers were not going to sign $15M worth of defensive players.  It is not how they roll.  They are about as conservative and risk adverse of an organization as you can get.

For some odd reason I thought it was at least rumored that he will sit the season during the off-season. I could be wrong. Maybe it was how vague him n his agent were and it rubbed me that way. You’re right about the conservative part and spending 15 mil on defensive players. I’m playing the maybe game,  Not saying blow it all on a player or fix all our holes that way, but to get some cushion to at least add one solid player.They were willing to spend money on Haden and Hightower(when he visited). maybe the approached changes if the price is right. I can’t remember the last time the steelers has any bit of cap room to really make a move like that. 

[CKSteeler]

2 hours ago, Displayname said:

Tomlin gets bashed worst then the 8-8 Jason Garrett’s.

This right here is just nonsense. Outside Steelers fans themselves, no one trashes Tomlin. The guy gets the biggest free pass in the league from the national media. ESPN barely even talked about the Oakland debacle. If Garrett had been in a situation like that, he'd have been the lead on all the talking head shows. There's like, Colin Cowherd and Terry Bradshaw. Those are Tomlin's national critics.

[Displayname]

6 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

This right here is just nonsense. Outside Steelers fans themselves, no one trashes Tomlin. The guy gets the biggest free pass in the league from the national media. ESPN barely even talked about the Oakland debacle. If Garrett had been in a situation like that, he'd have been the lead on all the talking head shows. There's like, Colin Cowherd and Terry Bradshaw. Those are Tomlin's national critics.

I’m not seeing how it’s “nonsense” when I was pointing out overall. The times they do cover the steelers, it’s short, sweet, and to the same point they’ve been saying over and over because it’s been the same problem for a few years. Hences that it’s nothing new to them. There’s other media outlet that don’t hold the big brand names like Colin and Terry. How resourceful they are depends on opinions.

From the fans perspective, it’s worst then any fan base I know of.